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Retread ZOT! Who is the moderator in this thread?

Posted on 02/27/2007 4:07:28 PM PST by PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC

I would like to get permission to post a question to other Freepers. TY.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Free Republic Policy/Q&A
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To: Responsibility2nd

It's a good thing I wasn't drinking anything, or you'd owe me a new keyboard. I laughed so hard I got tears in my eyes.


151 posted on 02/27/2007 5:53:20 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC

WOT?


152 posted on 02/27/2007 5:56:17 PM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: JRios1968

African or European?


153 posted on 02/27/2007 6:00:59 PM PST by IllumiNaughtyByNature (When Can We expect a Movie about Milli Vanilli?)
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To: SandyInSeattle
"Looter guy! Where's he been hiding?"
I found him!

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

154 posted on 02/27/2007 6:02:55 PM PST by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: dynachrome

That house is going to flood when global warming melts the snow.


155 posted on 02/27/2007 6:04:36 PM PST by MaxMax (God Bless America)
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To: Huntress; PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC

156 posted on 02/27/2007 6:04:40 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

157 posted on 02/27/2007 6:04:54 PM PST by PilloryHillary (againsthillary.com)
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To: SandyInSeattle
Found him over here too :)


158 posted on 02/27/2007 6:05:40 PM PST by andyandval
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To: Thunder90

Thank you!


159 posted on 02/27/2007 6:06:50 PM PST by Huntress (I believe in government by grumpy old guys.)
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To: Monkey Face

Hiya!

Wonder if this thread will go undead...


160 posted on 02/27/2007 6:08:29 PM PST by RosieCotton
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC
Yoo Stupit.

Doncha' know the Moderator knows all?

161 posted on 02/27/2007 6:08:39 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: K4Harty; andyandval

Has Looter Guy ever been positively identified?

He could make millions if he would come forward for the recognition due him as the face of Katrina.


162 posted on 02/27/2007 6:11:27 PM PST by SandyInSeattle (I made it home! Hello, Seattle! It's Raining! Woo Hoo!)
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To: BJClinton
LOL!!  !
163 posted on 02/27/2007 6:14:48 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC
Who is this Zot you speak of? He will bow before the great Zod!
164 posted on 02/27/2007 6:14:50 PM PST by Spruce
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC

165 posted on 02/27/2007 6:26:22 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (A living insult to islam since 1959)
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To: darkwing104; SJackson; yonif; Simcha7; American in Israel; Slings and Arrows; judicial meanz; ...
Off topic, but you guys really have to get on darkwing104's Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list. With all that is going on, a good ZOT thread and the laughs helps maintain some perspective.  !


166 posted on 02/27/2007 6:41:49 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: JRios1968; monkapotamus; All

MONK get your Star Wars photoshop in gear


167 posted on 02/27/2007 6:43:44 PM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: JRios1968; monkapotamus; All

MONK get your Star Wars photoshop in gear


168 posted on 02/27/2007 6:43:51 PM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: Salem
I'm not going to read the thread.

Did he ask his question?

169 posted on 02/27/2007 6:48:39 PM PST by SJackson (No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms, Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Jet Jaguar

Dang, that hurts my eyes!


170 posted on 02/27/2007 6:49:10 PM PST by OSHA (Sarcasm detector overload!)
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To: Salem

So how do I get added?

Is there an initiation?

What are the dues?

Where can I get a map?


171 posted on 02/27/2007 6:51:31 PM PST by pax_et_bonum (I will always love you, Flyer.)
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC

Honestly? Yes, they make your butt look big.


172 posted on 02/27/2007 6:52:19 PM PST by jennyjenny
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To: Salem
I love that. It's hilarious.
173 posted on 02/27/2007 6:56:46 PM PST by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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To: Salem; darkwing104
thanks Salem, I could use a laugh. Please put me on your ping list darkwing.


174 posted on 02/27/2007 7:07:22 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: SJackson
Did he ask his question?

No.

175 posted on 02/27/2007 7:08:52 PM PST by Enosh (†)
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To: Fred Nerks
Done


176 posted on 02/27/2007 7:16:49 PM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: stylecouncilor

177 posted on 02/27/2007 7:27:49 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: BJClinton

Wonderful! Fantastic! Wherever did you get it??


178 posted on 02/27/2007 7:35:57 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC
I would like to get permission to post a question to other Freepers. TY.

.permission denied

179 posted on 02/27/2007 7:58:14 PM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan ("Fake but Accurate": NY Times)
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To: PATRICKHENRY REPUBLIC

I hate it when I miss a good zot!


180 posted on 02/27/2007 8:16:13 PM PST by rdl6989
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To: Fierce Allegiance

This was the funniest thread- I was laughing so hard I could not post!!!


181 posted on 02/27/2007 9:35:24 PM PST by mojo114
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To: JRios1968

Africian or European?


182 posted on 02/27/2007 9:42:15 PM PST by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: Danae

I don't know that!!


183 posted on 02/27/2007 9:51:55 PM PST by JRios1968 (Tagline wanted...inquire within)
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To: darkwing104

Can you please add me to your viking kitty/ZOT ping list?
Thanks a bunch!


184 posted on 02/27/2007 9:54:08 PM PST by Wandaroos
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To: Darksheare

LMAO


185 posted on 02/27/2007 9:56:56 PM PST by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: JRios1968

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh


186 posted on 02/27/2007 10:02:04 PM PST by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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To: Danae

You have to know these things when you're king...


187 posted on 02/27/2007 10:03:24 PM PST by JRios1968 (Tagline wanted...inquire within)
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To: Salem

I love that picture! haha


188 posted on 02/28/2007 4:26:52 AM PST by lupie
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To: Enosh

Exactly


189 posted on 02/28/2007 4:55:01 AM PST by WhiteGuy (GOP Congress - 16,000 earmarks costing US $50 billion in 2006 - PAUL2008)
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To: MonicaG
LOL, you know he forgot the question!

Free Image Hosting at allyoucanupload.com

190 posted on 02/28/2007 5:11:16 AM PST by WhiteGuy (GOP Congress - 16,000 earmarks costing US $50 billion in 2006 - PAUL2008)
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To: Responsibility2nd; myguns
Hope you enjoy many good yearsYOUR ZOT here at Free Republic.

There. Fixed it.

191 posted on 02/28/2007 6:10:47 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Warning. If your tagline is funny... I may steal it.)
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To: RosieCotton; sionnsar
Wonder if this thread will go undead...

We can only hope! It's still "alive" so perhaps, if sion works fast enough, we can have it.

Tomorrow is officially "Moving Day" for the Undead, anyway. Sion?

192 posted on 02/28/2007 6:56:19 AM PST by Monkey Face (Never understimate the power of stupid people in large groups. [Congress is in session.])
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To: pax_et_bonum

Hiya, Pax!


193 posted on 02/28/2007 6:57:43 AM PST by Monkey Face (Never understimate the power of stupid people in large groups. [Congress is in session.])
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To: stylecouncilor

Never make Britney mad at you.


194 posted on 02/28/2007 7:54:07 AM PST by windcliff
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To: DaveLoneRanger
I believe I stole it from some other Zot! thread in response to


195 posted on 02/28/2007 8:17:40 AM PST by BJClinton (articulate and bright and clean and a nice looking guy)
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To: Monkey Face

Well, today would normally be Moving Day. I have conflicts this evening, so we'll have to see.


196 posted on 02/28/2007 10:01:35 AM PST by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com†|Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: sionnsar

Well, if we don't make it tonight or tomorrow, it's OK, as this is a short month. So we'll take what we can get!


197 posted on 02/28/2007 10:19:20 AM PST by Monkey Face (Never understimate the power of stupid people in large groups. [Congress is in session.])
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To: JRios1968

Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow

Hashing out the classic question with Strouhal numbers and simplified flight waveforms.
by Jonathan Corum

After spending some time last month trying to develop alternate graphic presentations for kinematic ratios in winged flight, I decided to try to answer one of the timeless questions of science: just what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

What do you mean, an African or European Swallow?

To begin with, I needed basic kinematic data on African and European swallow species.

 
  South African Swallow
(Hirundo spilodera)
European Swallow
(Hirundo rustica)

Although 47 of the 74 worldwide swallow species are found in Africa,1 only two species are named after the continent: the West African Swallow (Hirundo domicella) and the South African Swallow (Hirundo spilodera), also known as the South African Cave Swallow.

Since the range of the South African Swallow extends only as far north as Zaire,2 I felt fairly confident that this was the non-migratory African species referred to in previous discussions of the comparative and cooperative weight-bearing capabilities of African and European swallows.3

Kinematic data for both African species was difficult to find, but the Barn or European Swallow (Hirundo rustica) has been studied intensively, and kinematic data for that species was readily available.

It’s a simple question of weight ratios

A 54-year survey of 26,285 European Swallows captured and released by the Avian Demography Unit of the University of Capetown finds that the average adult European swallow has a wing length of 12.2 cm and a body mass of 20.3 grams.4

Because wing beat frequency and wing amplitude both scale with body mass,5 and flight kinematic data is available for at least 22 other bird species,6 it should be possible to estimate the frequency (f ) and amplitude (A) of the European Swallow by a comparison with similar species. With those two numbers, it will be possible to estimate airspeed (U).

In order to maintain airspeed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?

Actually, wrong. By comparing the European Swallow with bird species of similar body mass, we can estimate that the swallow beats its wings 18 times a second with an amplitude of 18 cm:

Species Body mass Frequency Amplitude
Zebra Finch 13 g 27 Hz 11 cm
European Swallow 20 g ≈ 18 Hz? ≈ 18 cm?
Downy Woodpecker 27 g 14 Hz 29 cm
Budgerigar 34 g 14 Hz 15 cm

Note that even the tiny Zebra Finch flaps its wings no more than 27 times a second while cruising.

If we ignore body mass and look only at bird species with a similar wingspan, we can estimate an average frequency of 14 beats per second and an amplitude of 23 cm:

Species Wingspan Frequency Amplitude
Budgerigar 27 cm 14 Hz 15 cm
European Swallow ≈ 28–30 cm ≈ 14 Hz? ≈ 23 cm?
Downy Woodpecker 31 cm 14 Hz 29 cm
European Starling 35 cm 14 Hz 26 cm

By averaging all 6 values, we can estimate that an average European Swallow flies at cruising speed with a frequency of roughly 15 beats per second, and an amplitude of roughly 22 cm.

Skip a bit, Brother

Last month’s article on The Strouhal Number in Cruising Flight showed how simplified flight waveforms that graph amplitude versus wavelength can be useful for visualizing the Strouhal ratio (fA/U), a dimensionless parameter that tends to fall in the range of 0.2–0.4 during efficient cruising flight.

For a European Swallow flying with our estimated wingbeat amplitude of 24 cm, the predicted pattern of cruising flight ranges from a Strouhal number (St) of 0.2:

 

... to a less efficient 0.4:

 

If the first diagram (St = 0.2) is accurate, then the cruising speed of the European Swallow would be roughly 16 meters per second (15 beats per second * 1.1 meters per beat). If the second diagram (St = 0.4) is accurate, then the cruising speed of the European Swallow would be closer to 8 meters per second (15 beats per second * 0.55 meters per beat).

If we settle on an intermediate Strouhal value of 0.3:

 

We can estimate the airspeed of the European Swallow to be roughly 11 meters per second (15 beats per second * 0.73 meters per beat).

Three shall be the number thou shalt count

Airspeed can also be predicted using a published formula. By inverting this midpoint Strouhal ratio of 0.3 (fA/U ≈ 0.3), Graham K. Taylor et al. show that as a rule of thumb, the speed of a flying animal is roughly 3 times frequency times amplitude (U ≈ 3fA).5

We now need only plug in the numbers:

U ≈ 3fA
f ≈ 15 (beats per second)
A ≈ 0.22 (meters per beat)
U ≈ 3*15*0.22 ≈ 9.9

... to estimate that the airspeed velocity of an unladen European Swallow is 10 meters per second.

Oh, yeah, I agree with that

With some further study, it became clear that these estimates are accurate, though perhaps coincidental.

An actual study of two European Swallows flying in a low-turbulence wind tunnel in Lund, Sweden, shows that swallows flap their wings much slower than my estimate, at only 7–9 beats per second:

“Compared with other species of similar size, the swallow has quite low wingbeat frequency and relatively long wings.” 7

The maximum speed the birds could maintain was 13–14 meters per second, and although the Lund study does not discuss cruising flight in particular, the most efficient flapping (7 beats per second) occurred at an airspeed in the range of 8–11 meters per second, with an amplitude of 90–100° (17–19 cm).

And there was much rejoicing

Averaging the above numbers and plugging them in to the Strouhal equation for cruising flight (fA/U = 7 beats per second * 0.18 meters per beat / 9.5 meters per second) yields a Strouhal number of roughly 0.13:

 

... indicating a surprisingly efficient flight pattern falling well below the expected range of 0.2–0.4.

Although a definitive answer would of course require further measurements, published species-wide averages of wing length and body mass, initial Strouhal estimates based on those averages and cross-species comparisons, the Lund wind tunnel study of birds flying at a range of speeds, and revised Strouhal numbers based on that study all lead me to estimate that the average cruising airspeed velocity of an unladen European Swallow is roughly 11 meters per second, or 24 miles an hour.

What is the capital of Assyria?

For those looking for additional answers, the four capitals of Assyria were Ashur (or Qalat Sherqat), Calah (or Nimrud), the short-lived Dur Sharrukin (or Khorsabad), and Nineveh.8 The ruins of all four ancient cities fall within the modern state of Iraq.

 

References

Thank to everyone who has written in with comments and questions. Responses are posted here, along with a revised estimate from Dr Graham K. Taylor, and some alternate theories.
  1. Chris & Tilde Stuart
    Birds of Africa: From Seabirds to Seed-Eaters
    MIT Press (1999)
     
  2. G. L. Maclean
    Roberts’ Birds of Southern Africa
    John Voelcker Bird Book Fund, Cape Town, South Africa (1985)
     
  3. Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Eric Idle, Terry Gilliam, Terry Jones, Michael Palin
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail
    Python (Monty) Pictures Ltd. (1975)
     
  4. Avian Demography Unit
    SAFRING results of the European Swallow (Hirundo rustica)
    Department of Statistical Sciences, University of Cape Town (2002)
     
  5. Graham K. Taylor, Robert L. Nudds, Adrian L. R. Thomas
    Flying and swimming animals cruise at a Strouhal number tuned for high power efficiency
    Nature 425, 707–711 (October 16, 2003)
     
  6. Email correspondence with Graham K. Taylor of the University of Oxford Zoology Department (October 22–23, 2003)
     
  7. Kirsty J. Park, Mikael Rosén, Anders Hedenström
    Flight kinematics of the barn swallow (Hirundo rustica) over a wide range of speeds in a wind tunnel
    The Journal of Experimental Biology 204, 2741–2750 (2001)
     
  8. Ashur Cherry
    Assyrian History
    The Mesopotamian Encyclopedia (2001)

198 posted on 02/28/2007 11:40:42 AM PST by NonLinear (Genesis 16:11-12 pretty much sums it up.)
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To: NonLinear

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


199 posted on 02/28/2007 11:59:27 AM PST by JRios1968 (Tagline wanted...inquire within)
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To: NonLinear

200 posted on 02/28/2007 12:07:47 PM PST by BJClinton (articulate and bright and clean and a nice looking guy)
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