Something tell me that there is more to this story.
Posted on 03/01/2007 2:18:04 PM PST by CedarDave
Pardon a vanity, please. So many articles are coming out about Vista horrors (I'm on Shadowace's Tech ping list) I need to ask a question and get assistance.
My out-of-state sister, a complete computer newbie with absolutely no knowledge of how they work or why except how to save a Word document at the office, went and ordered one from Dell last month so she can get email and do some web browsing when she retires later this year.
They sent her one with a Vista OS and what she is finding out is the almost no one can help her do the most minimal of tasks -- friends who know about XP can't assist and even her new high speed internet provider says they do not support the Vista system. They put the cable modem in and that was it. Her wait time on technical assistance from Dell has been lengthy and she has trouble understanding the techies from India (no one ever told her how to shut down a computer so she had problems trying to startup after using the "off" button a few times).
However, she told me today that, BTW, they sent her an XP OEM disc with the computer!! I'm planning on calling Dell for her and see if the XP system version can be installed (maybe it is already, I don't know).
Do I want a dual boot or should I just have the Vista OS un-installed and have her run only XP? Comments anyone?
And, no, she isn't going to buy a Mac.
After testing my current machine, which Vista upgrade said was perfect, I bought and downloaded Vista Home Basic. It wouldn't work. So I just decided to stay with XP for the next few years. Got my money back, no problem and that is that. Just my experience with Vista upgrades. I don't know much about OEM installs.
For me, and I am more computer savvy than the average end user it was a negative experience.
For myself, I bought a copy of XP Home last month so that when I get a new one this summer, I have it available to load as I expect copies of XP to be as scarce as hen's teeth. I know MS is going to support XP for years to come, but getting a new computer with XP is difficult now as the dealers sell only Vista. So an answer to this question will be useful for me then, too.
You can imagine then how frustrating it is for her. She's already had to reinstall the OS!!! I'm trying to help, like with setting up email, but the system has a new email client called Windows Mail that no one else knows about. If I can get XP installed on her machine, I'll bring her over to Mozilla Thunderbird which I use.
The former sounds like it'd be a tech nightmare to set up. I'd opt for the latter IMHO.
Something tell me that there is more to this story.
what is the question? to Vista or not to Vista?
What technical problems is she experiencing with Vista? Maybe I could help?
OK, so it should be at least a new enough machine capable of running it... now we at least know that much... I believe she should be learning Vista now, Since it's a new computer I would use the Vista OS, make sure it has enough memory 1GB+(2GB is even better especially if it uses integrated video)
I know this will be of no help after the fact but....your sister woiuld have been a prime candidate for a Mac. Really.
Based on her needs and the fact that it probably would have been the last computer she ever bought...for a few dollars more...it would have been worth it.
Not really. I think the problem with re-installation of the operating system came because of the way she shut down the machine. Or she may have put something other than the intended password in when it asked for one and she couldn't get in to change it; I just don't know. She doesn't know what she is doing and knows no one that can help her as no one knows Vista. Even the Cox internet folks have told her to call Dell for assistance in setting up a second email account. I went online for her today via Webmail and Cox right up front has this warning about Vista:
Note: Cox High Speed Internet does not currently provide technical support for this operating system.
I would like her to get Thunderbird as an email client, but even if she doesn't, if she had XP lots of people know how to configure Outlook Express.
Indeed. Chuck the Vista, buy a copy of XP Pro to install. Format the whole mess and start over.
When Vista is ready for Prime Time...in about five years...she can switch over.
I agree. I am guessing they are using the USB part of the modem and there probably isnt any driver support for it yet, she should go get a ethernet cable and plug it in and see what happens. As far as the rest pretty much everything is where it used to be on XP just a finer polish to it.
Start with the Start button. She is a sixtyish year old lady that has always fought with electronics (had a hard time with the VCR). The cable company came and installed a cable modem, but said they wouldn't help her with her wireless modem because she didn't buy it from them. So she stands up at a small table by the TV to use the laptop. She's in AZ and I'm in NM.
When she get's home from work this evening we are going to talk and if she actually has an uninstalled OEM version of XP, I would like to get Vista off of the machine and have Dell have her use only XP. I already told her to send the machine back. Maybe I can get Dell to send her one with XP only already on it.
Well I think you should go ahead and install XP if thats what she is used too, however I would also leave Vista on so she can play around with it and get used to it. I think she would really enjoy Vista if she gave it a little time, I have become quite the Vista fanboy over its features and usually I am not so emphatic over something like this.
Vista is a good OS it does however take about a week to get used to it fully. After the initial "shock" you will notice that your productivity will increase and your experience will overall be better.
it's NOT that much different than XP, IF the person knows how to operate XP with any experience then moving to Vista shouldn't be a problem at all. Also, Microsoft has online classes, IF that is something that she is interested in.
Setting up a wireless connection in Vista is not terribly difficult. In fact, it's a bit easier than it is in XP. Do you happen to know her SSID?
She's not used to XP, Vista or any other operating system. She used MS Office and knows how to open and save and little else. Whenever she had a problem, they have IT techs that got it working. She can use MS Outlook to send email with the office address, but is prohibited from accessing websites at work so knows nothing about the internet.
She has friends who use XP at home and can help her if she had XP. That's what I'm trying to do. She is so frustrated with Dell she could scream.
You are making this too complicated.
Thunderbird 1.5.X works on Vista.
here's a online video tutorial on installing thunderbird on vista.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xA7cP-qpdlI
Only difference to the casual user is that the "application data' folder in winxp is called "appdata" in vista, if you ever have to retrieve your mail folders.
The newest thunderbird 2.beta installation file works better with Vista, but it's not even a release candidate yet.
So very true. I don't have a clue as how to use it. She calls me because she doesn't have anyone else to call except for Dell. I would like to help her, but I am not going to learn Vista myself. In fact, everything I've heard and read on here says "stay away". Of course the simplest thing would be to tell her to send it back or call a local tech. She's stubborn and won't do either.
But my original question remains. Is a dual boot machine the answer? How does a dual boot machine work? Can it be configured to start up just one way (with XP?). Or do you have to tell it what to do everytime?
Couldn't resist, huh?
Better have that OCB problem looked at...
When she get's home from work this evening we are going to talk and if she actually has an uninstalled OEM version of XP, I would like to get Vista off of the machine and have Dell have her use only XP. I already told her to send the machine back. Maybe I can get Dell to send her one with XP only already on it.
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Dell will definitely have refurb machines with XP. If you really lean on them you might get lucky, insisting on sending back the Vista machine for a new XP machine
You would want Dell to install XP because there are Dell diagnostics and other programs that help Dell diagnose problems remotely (over the internet)
If she installs from the XP OEM disk she won't have the Dell diagnostics. Plus even after XP install drivers must be installed for computer to operate correctly
I've got Vista on four machines were with no complaints. I can't speak for the arrogant, the stupid or the misinformed.
A dual-boot is not the way to go for a casual user. She'd have to clean install XP, then install Vista on another partition. The way to go is to help her with the computer she has, not the one you want her to have.
What do you have as far as a problem statement? What is it that she can't do?
... The way to go is to help her with the computer she has, not the one you want her to have.
I couldn't help laughing out loud at reading these two statements overloaded with irony...
I would simply add "... presumptuous"...
Yep. All of mine have been refurbished machines from Dell. I've saved quite a bit.
You would want Dell to install XP because there are Dell diagnostics and other programs that help Dell diagnose problems remotely (over the internet)
That gets back to my original question about a dual boot machine. If both OS are on it, the original diagnostics should remain.
You would want Dell to install XP because there are Dell diagnostics and other programs that help Dell diagnose problems remotely (over the internet)
This is correct.
If she installs from the XP OEM disk she won't have the Dell diagnostics. Plus even after XP install drivers must be installed for computer to operate correctly
This is incorrect. OEM means it has Dell software integrated into the installation. Dell only sells OEM windows XP for new machines and it will have Dell diagnostics and help programs installed with the Windows XP.
CedarDave, avoid doing the dual boot, partitioning a hard drive over the phone will be a heck of a feat.
What you lack is context, so kiss off.
Tell her to mail the laptop to you and fix it for her.
You are asking for a world of headaches trying to walk an old woman through something like this. Trust me, I have lived it with my mom.
Getting to the type of answer I want to hear -- facts not opinion. And yes, I want her to have XP.
Well do I know. Our mother was like that; she's turning out the same way. --sigh--
Okay, that's not rational. She has a working computer. You have yet do describe anything broken. Yet you want her to send her computer back and wait another two weeks for something to come back that you can work on. I could probably help you if you would only describe a problem (hers, not yours).
I have my mother in law running Mepis Linux to do all the things she does (email, picture swapping, surfing the web, playing solitaire type games, balancing her checkbook and writing letters). It is really nice and she has no regrets about moving over from windows. (I cleaned windows off her box when it got so adware and virus ridden I could not even get it to boot).
If you have an xp disc, use it, wipe down the drive and put it on. VISTA is not ready for prime-time. (sorry all the linux bashers, couldn't resist that one ...smile)
Oh gosh, don't tell him that. XP has no way to detect newer OS. If you want to multi-boot you have to install from oldest to newest.
Are you sure, I know that was true when doing Win 9x vs NT, but I don't think that holds up as long as it is all NTFS. It is entirely possible I am wrong, I did say sight unseen. Personally I always do some research before I leap.
Won't work. Trust me. Vista doesn't use boot.ini
Vaporize Vista and Load XP as a single OS
DoHickey says don't follow my advice, stick with him for now.
Why throw out something he paid for. At a minimum create a legal VISTA CD and install it later when ready for prime time.
Vista uses something called BCD (Boot configuration data) instead of NtLdr so that it can support EFI systems. Sure, you can multi-boot with it, but you need to install the legacy PC/AT BIOS OSes first.
Makes sense.
You are right about the Dell XP OEM disc. But dig this --- 4 years ago my sister got a Dell with Windows Millennium with a free XP upgrade. The XP upgrade turned out to be an XP Home disc that could be put on any darn computer. In fact I installed it in mine, used it for one year until she wanted it back to upgrade to XP
That's how chaotic the Millennium-XP crossover was
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