Posted on 05/04/2007 9:37:45 AM PDT by DogByte6RER
Is a Hummer cleaner than a Prius?
Monday, 30 April 2007
BY JOE TONER
You’ve often heard it, be you an ordinary “joe-soap” king, queen or pope; we are all only dust and it’s to dust we’ll go. A recent report, in the USA, came up with a hypothesis on the great hybrid versus petrol car debate on a dust to dust premise. Before you go any further I must remind you of how great they are at producing report after report. I sometimes wonder if anyone, least of all themselves, listens. Sure, aren’t they great ones for rubbishing what they don’t agree with and promoting what they support on the sometimes flimsiest of evidence. Anyway, I digress.
A report produced by CNW Marketing Research in Bandon, Oregon looked at the dust to dust costs between the favoured Hollywood transport, the Toyota Prius and the vehicle of choice by the Terminator, aka Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Hummer Jeep – very familiar to military enthusiasts and fans of CSI Miami.
Much of the current debate centres on the fuel efficiency of the hybrid against the more mainstream petrol or diesel equivalents. The CNW report looks at the total costs from creation to destruction of a number of vehicles and proposes that the Hummer (H3) is cheaper, costing USD$1.31 cents per mile less to run than the Toyota Prius. While it is a headliner grabber it doesn’t tell the full story. For instance, the costs are based on the H3 having a service life of over 200,000 miles and the Prius only 100,000 miles – hardly a fair comparison.
While, as in any report, we can always find reason to reject its findings it does open up discussion on the whole total cost of the products we buy. We tend to focus on the energy implications of the product whilst in our tenure, mainly the fuel costs but also the service and maintenance expense.
When rating the energy consumption of an individual, group, community, or country, scientists talk about a “carbon footprint”. That is how much carbon will be emitted into the atmosphere, directly or indirectly, through the usage of products and services. How big is your footprint?
Do we give enough thought to the energy consumed in the production and transportation of our finished goods? How “Green” is the organic lettuce in your local shop? It may have been grown on the Continent and being flown/driven to the shop. Compare the energy usage to do that compared to the product grown locally, even if an amount of energy was used to heat the glasshouse.
I’m not about to start on a crusade promoting hybrid vs petrol vs hydrogen vs electric cars as they all have their merits and this is certainly no ad for the Green party. We must, though, challenge manufacturers to produce products that we can continue to enjoy and yet minimise the environmental impact. None of us will easily surrender the freedom, independence, convenience, and the satisfied smile that the car brings.
“...so did you find out who knocked down the WTC? What about the pending shooting war, is that still being planned over there?”
ROTFL! Lets not do this in the forum, old friend. Its not fair to the host.
You have mail.
“Its not fair to the host”
....yeah, guess so......I like FR, the software is easy and the articles are for the most part great.....
“....yeah, guess so......I like FR, the software is easy and the articles are for the most part great.....”
Big improvement over how it was just a few years back. I’m pleasantly surprised.
Even though I live in California, I live in a very “red state” pocket in Riverside County. The area is on the backside of the Marine Corps’ Camp Pendleton and just about an hour north of the San Diego Navy bases. Lots of military, veterans and otherwise patriotic and traditional Americans living here in my area. I think many have moved here to escape the failed liberal urban cities like L.A. and San Diego.
I mostly get lots of waves and thumbs up in my area.
I also drive around with Navy Veteran license plates.
Hell...I figure that I served my country and I was deployed to the Persian Gulf three times in the 1980s where we escorted Kuwaiti Oil tankers out of the gulf war zone, so I am entitled to drive whatever the hell I want to drive.
Anyways...I think that because of my veteran plates and bumper stickers, any of those ‘green drivers’ must think that I am too aggressive and unpredictable to confront. Perhaps the pro-gun bumper stickers also pacify them.
I have driven our H2 to places like L.A. and San Diego, but I really haven’t noticed any backlash from ‘green drivers.’ I have driven my H2 to anti-war “peace rallies” that we would crash through FReeper operations and Protest Warrior counter rallies and I haven’t had any problems either.
Maybe the libs just think that I am so politically incorrect and conservative that they think I have some kind a hair trigger temper. If that is what they think...I’m cool with it. Truth is I work in law enforcement and I come from a family of cops. I am really big into obeying the law and maintaining public order. I don’t seek to start trouble so I can thump on leftist moonbats. I do like exercising free speech though.
Whether they do “flip the bird” at me I honestly just haven’t noticed. I am usually just having too much fun driving and I am in a nirvana like state.
There was just one incident that I can remember just a few days after we bought our H2...I was driving north on I-15 around Lake Elsinore in the fast lane. Some middle aged lady in a sub-compact came speeding along and kept swerving around me and scowling at me. I did not see any political slogans on her car (liberal or otherwise) and at the time I had no political bumper stickers on the H2 and I had no license plates (the SUV was just days old.)
I don’t know if she was angry because she hates SUVs or if she was just going through menopause or a bad hair day or whatever. Truth is...I just didn’t even care anyway. If she has a problem with what I choose to drive, well...then that is her problem, not mine.
That is basically the attitude that I take, and I always feel just great when driving around in our SUV.
I like your response to the lady at the supermarket. Flip the argument around and put the onus on them.
Ask them if they support the right of a woman to “choose.” I guess that I would just reply to such ‘green drivers’ that I was just respecting my wife’s right to “choice” when it comes to driving. That ought to shut them up...
My wife wasn’t too thrilled about stickers and the residue mess either.
That’s why I put the stickers on soft magnetic backing that you can buy for about $10 a roll at any arts and crafts store.
It’s not about battery life, it’s about motor, transmission and drive train life. Lightweight cars start falling apart at about 100K because they are lightweight.
Who is going to spend $2500 on a new battery when the rest of it could fall apart at any time.
The problem is that the envirowacko’s only look at mileage and not at the total picture of a vehicle’s cost/benefit ratio.
“I also drive around with Navy Veteran license plates.”
I keep my CV62 - USS Independence’ ballcap on the dash of my H2. The two ‘humps’ directly above the stereo/map/enviromental controls keep it in place for all to see.
Out here where I live, the Hummer always draws a crowd, the old Farmers and the young kids all want to check it out and ask me questions. For the first year and a half I couldn’t fill up at the local stop and grab without a ‘tour’ it seemed. No problems from any of them, then again they drive huge machines - John Deere Green and three stories tall, so mph isn’t a big issue to them. Not to mention they all have F series diesel pick up trucks with the four wheel rear ends for towing the things farmers have to tow as part of the life they lead.
But if I drive west towards the ‘big city’ such as it is, I’ll inevitably see a Prius or Le Car type giving me a dirty look...most of the time while their kids are waving furiously with big smiles and a bit of excitement at seeing a Hummer next to em. Always makes me laugh, which just infuriates the greenie even more....(chuckle)
“That’s why I put the stickers on soft magnetic backing that you can buy for about $10 a roll at any arts and crafts store.”
There we have it, more confirmation H2 owners are in fact genius quality....(chuckle)
Can you put a plow blade on it, or will it fall apart?
“Can you put a plow blade on it, or will it fall apart?”
I’m sure you could, and its pretty obvious you’ve never actually owned one, or you wouldn’t even think it might ‘fall apart’.
Even Consumer Reports rated it Excellent for ‘off road capability’ so that should answer your question. If it ‘fell apart’ like say....a Jeep Cherokee, they wouldn’t say that.
Does this mean that these environmentalist hippie males are just hoping for a hummer on their prius? ;-P
Of course I have never owned one - that is why I asked.
The military version might be usefull - the civilian version looks like a wannabe piece of crud, without the toughness of the real thing.
I bet you put a snow blade on it, use it for two years, and the front end turns into trash.
BTW, the Jeep has a lot of usefull applications - like pulling stuck Hummers out of the mud.
ping
“The military version might be usefull - the civilian version looks like a wannabe piece of crud, without the toughness of the real thing.
I bet you put a snow blade on it, use it for two years, and the front end turns into trash.
BTW, the Jeep has a lot of usefull applications - like pulling stuck Hummers out of the mud.
“
Since you already admitted you never owned one, there was no reason to display any further ignorance on the topic as you did in the remainder of your post.
I don’t understand why you felt the need to do this, primarily because as a H2 owner, I know its laughable nonsense.
Tell me why it is nonsense - I want to learn.
“When the military asks for something on the other hand, things get done. That is why Arrowhead Engineering, Inc. makes a push-plate for the HMMWV that allows a full sized Fisher plow to be installed. A call into them revealed that for a civilian Hummer H1, one can expect an installation cost of in excess of $5,000.00 for one of these setups. Expect to lose quite a lot of approach angle when that plow frame is installed, too, which can be a real bummer if there are any wheeling plans in that trucks future. Meyer makes a snowplow kit that will work on Hummer/HMMWV vehicles as well. Each of the aforementioned plow setups are the real deal designed for commercial plowing applications. Those responsible for clearing private roads, multiple rental properties or parking lots may want to look into one of these heavier duty options; but for those of us planning to clear a long driveway or two, these might be overkill. And how about all those H3’s out there? Nobody wants to hang 800+ lbs of steel off the front end of one of those.”
“And how about all those H3’s out there?”
I called Hummer. I asked them “when are you going to offer a real motor in the H3?” - they told me “probably, never”.
I like the size and shape of the H3, but it needs a better motor. I’m thinking 3.0 V6 turbo diesel, and they wouldn’t be able to keep them in stock. Oh, and a manual tranny. yeah, thats the ticket !
‘Tis true what you say, “to each his own”, I’ll buy that. The other side of that is for the kooks to shut their mouths over what I prefer to buy, drive and use, my money, my business. We usually put from 150,000 to 180,000 on our American (I guess I must qualify that and say MOSTLY American made given the internationally made parts in them) cars/trucks/SUVs, in our 60s we’ve bought quite a few. 85,000 is nothing in our books, you ain’t started yet...
“For instance, the costs are based on the H3 having a service life of over 200,000 miles and the Prius only 100,000 miles – hardly a fair comparison.”
“Why is that “unfair?” You’d need two Prii (?) to travel the same total distance. It is too fair.”
Because Prii, or whatever the blank they are, don’t die in 100,000 miles. The basic assumption is wrong.
The dumb ‘scientist’ who made up the first report looked at the warranty on the Prius’ battery (100k miles) and decided that voila, the Prius lasts 100k miles and no more. However, he decided not to apply the same logic to the Hummer (100k drivetrain warranty) but rather decided that Hummers last 250k miles. Where did he get 250k? From the same place he got 100k miles for a Prius, namely his posterior.
Apart from that, it’s difficult to assess how often a Prius’ battery fails, because not enough of them *have* failed to provide any sort of accurate guess, much less a firm figure.
When doing cost analyses, it’s important that the lifespan of the vehicle not be determined by the whim of the analyst :)
Anyway like I said above, there are plenty of sound reasons to criticize a Prius, but this article, and the article underlying it, aren’t them.
150K miles is pretty stout, and I do only have 85K miles so far, but it has been only 2 1/2 years since I got the car new. The car shows no sign of slowing down.
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