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Second JFK assassin 'likely'
Herald Sun ^ | 18 May 2007

Posted on 05/18/2007 3:02:33 AM PDT by Aussie Dasher

A NEW analysis of remaining bullet fragments from the 1963 assassination of US president John F Kennedy suggests a second shooter may have been involved.

The findings suggest the prevailing theory that a sole gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, killed Kennedy is wrong, according to a research team that published its findings yesterday.

The researchers "show that evidence used to rule out a second assassin is fundamentally flawed," wrote William Tobin, the main author of the report, published in the latest issue of the Annals of Applied Statistics.

Mr Tobin, a former FBI agent and forensic scientist, teamed with bullet lead analysis expert Cliff Spiegelman of Texas A & M University to re-examine the five bullet fragments recovered after Kennedy's assassination, using new scientific advances.

The findings countered testimony to the House Select Committee on Assassinations hearing in 1978 in which Dr Vincent Guinn said the bullet fragments recovered signalled that two bullets of an unusual kind of ammunition were used.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: conspiracykooks; dallas; jfk; kennedyassassination; kooks; kooksnevergiveup; secondassassin; tinfoil
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To: Darkwolf377
That was a moose in the grassy knoll.

And a moose once bit my sister..
It all adds up!!

51 posted on 05/18/2007 4:00:41 AM PDT by Drammach ("If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." -- Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Darkwolf377

Hey I’m a support of Bush. But I didn’t purchase a subscription to the US government.

LBJ and the US establishment did erase JFK from earth because of his foreign policy that endangered the US.

If you go to Dallas and you study the case, you will by yourself.

BTW, explain me this strange behavior of Secret servoice bodyguards :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFpPjjKdUds

Have you ever seen bodyguards abandonning their client in the middle of a public appearance ?


52 posted on 05/18/2007 4:02:00 AM PDT by drzz
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To: Blueflag
****Take the rifle Oswald used, and try to reproduce the shots in the time frame,****

I saw Oswald's brother ov tv once and he got off 4 or 5 shots in the alloted time with a similar rifle. He believes that his brother was the only assassin.

53 posted on 05/18/2007 4:03:01 AM PDT by fkabuckeyesrule (Good News everyone!!!! It's baseball season!!!!!)
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To: Roccus

hmmmm ... you could be correct. In that case, I’ll never see it :(


54 posted on 05/18/2007 4:05:49 AM PDT by moonman
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To: moonman

Again, ICBW but I’m pretty sure that’s the whole idea.


55 posted on 05/18/2007 4:07:57 AM PDT by Roccus (Stolen tag.............The "P" in Democrat stands for Patriotism.)
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To: Roccus
The Mannlicher-Carcano was such a fine weapon that, at the time, it could be purchased in a Burlington, VT Woolworth’s for under $20.

I remember department stores that used to sell good surplus rifles at very fair prices. But with all of the gun control laws that have been passed, I think most of them have given up the trade. (For that matter, I think most of them have given up all trade, having gone out of business long ago.)

56 posted on 05/18/2007 4:19:50 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: Aussie Dasher
A NEW analysis of remaining bullet fragments from the 1963 assassination of US president John F Kennedy suggests a second shooter may have been involved.

Well --- Duhhh!!! They found grass stains on one of the bullet fragments ---

57 posted on 05/18/2007 4:26:17 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: snowsislander

Actually, I seem to remember that the price on the M-C was under $10, but this was 40+yrs. ago and my memory ain’t what it used to be. I used the $20 figure to CMA in the cause of accuracy. I do, however, remember that the rifles were placed butt down in a wire mesh cylinder on the floor,(like the ones they use for kid’s plastic balls) at the end of the toy counter.


58 posted on 05/18/2007 4:33:25 AM PDT by Roccus (Stolen tag.............The "P" in Democrat stands for Patriotism.)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn

Wow. A lot of stupid, uninformed people on this one. They just make it up as they go along. ROTFLMAF

Oswald was “untrained”?!?. LOL.


59 posted on 05/18/2007 5:06:23 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Hunter '08)
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To: Fresh Wind
That would be 2013. Unfortunately, the Mayan calendar shows the world ending in 2012, so I guess we'll never find out.

So the Mayans are in on it, too.

60 posted on 05/18/2007 5:13:36 AM PDT by atomicpossum (Replies must follow approved guidelines or you will be kill-filed without appeal.)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACT0aKWEAow

Two inches FORWARD ON IMPACT.

61 posted on 05/18/2007 5:16:20 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Hunter '08)
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To: drzz

In the Zapruder still you posted, I see a 4 inch disk of bone hanging down on the right, doubling the apparent size of the wound (the wound and the bone below it), and a lot of blood and tissue on Kennedy’s face.

In the first autopsy picture, it looks like the right side of his temple is gone. In the second, you see a disk of bone everted next to his right temple. The first picture shows what looks like brain all over his hair - it looks like there is a wound in the upper right posterior portion of his head but conceivably there could just be a mess of brains smeared on his hair. The lst picture shows an entrance wound on the lower part of his head, just left of center. His hair has been washed.

The pictures don’t seem inconsistant to me.

If there was an Establishment conpiracy to kill him, they could keep it simple - one deadly sniper, no need to fudge with autopsy pictures. Throw in Oswald as the fall guy if you want, but multiple shooters would be a foolish complication on the part of the conspirators.

Mrs VS


62 posted on 05/18/2007 5:55:57 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: M.K. Borders
Plus remember that early reports had the scope loosely installed to the gun and they failed to find Oswald’s prints until the Gubmint claimed to find a palm print. I’ve owned a carcano and recently passed on two for $100. as they were not something I wanted nor would use. Even the Discovery channel had to start with 4 that were reduced to two after a gunsmith’s review and then one failed.
I don’t buy the single assassination theory and wonder why the brain and other evidence disappeared.
63 posted on 05/18/2007 6:03:35 AM PDT by mcshot ("Some are inert and some are ert" military training truism from Pvt Benjamin)
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To: Proud_texan
In that vein I read an opinion piece recently and opined that conspiracy theories exist because as humans we don't like the idea that a single pathetic loser like Oswald or Sirhan can have such a impact.

I believe that conspiracy theories exist because there are people who don't have the aptitude to remember facts and would rather use their artistic ability to make up the story as they go. It's like the kid who does a book report on a book that doesn't exist.

64 posted on 05/18/2007 6:19:04 AM PDT by Niteranger68 (Discrimination against Muslims is acceptable if we are to survive.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
I had some friends who were wild conspiracy theorists (or, should I say,"believers?") who showed me an "enhanced" video of the Zapruder tape, wherein the driver of Kennedy's Limo turned around with a chrome-plated pistol and delivered the fatal shot.

I read a book by the son of Sam (Giancana, that is) who said, "Daddy did it."

Contrary to what other poster have said, I HAVE seen demonstrations showing that the three shots could have been delivered by one person in the time frame, and Lee Harvey Oswald was trained by the USMC in marksmanship.

Having said all that, I still am reluctant to believe the "Acted alone" conclusion. But the key word here is "believe." All of the conspiracy "proofs" I have seen are too suspect.

65 posted on 05/18/2007 6:19:56 AM PDT by LantzALot
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To: Aussie Dasher
For later read.

Saw a show where an Aussie marksman went to great lengths to recreate the shot that hit Kennedy and the Governor. He proved pretty conclusively that it could have happened as described.

The marksman posts occasionally on a hunting board I go to, and talked about the show. He seems pretty legit.

66 posted on 05/18/2007 6:33:50 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Aussie Dasher

It took these guys 40 years to figure out what 90% of America already knew about a second gunman? Oy.


67 posted on 05/18/2007 6:35:09 AM PDT by VegasBaby
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To: Darkwolf377

When you have to explain away the testimony of 180 witnesses, conclusions to the contrary will always be suspect. Same with TWA 800. If it was one or two witnesses, that would be a bit different.


68 posted on 05/18/2007 6:39:30 AM PDT by kylaka
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To: Blueflag
and he could not do it in the same time frame/ accuracy as Oswald who was not a trained shooter.

Oswald was a Marine-corps trained shooter, and was quite competent.

69 posted on 05/18/2007 6:41:01 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte
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To: drzz

“... JFK murder is a conspiracy”

You can have more than one shooter without a conspiracy. My view is that there were two or three independent individuals or groups of individuals gunning for JFK in Dallas that day, and at least two of them fired shots.


70 posted on 05/18/2007 6:43:52 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: Sans-Culotte

“Just goes to show what one motivated Marine and his rifle can do.”


71 posted on 05/18/2007 6:44:45 AM PDT by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Still Championship U)
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To: dfwgator

too funny.!
drill instructor used that one on us in boot camp...only it was in regards to Charles Whitman.


72 posted on 05/18/2007 7:00:16 AM PDT by stylin19a (It's easier to get up at 6:00 AM to play golf than at 10:00 to mow the yard)
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To: Aussie Dasher
I was sitting in 7th grade history class when the principal put this over the school intercom that Kennedy had been shot. We sat there and listened to it the remainder of the day. Did not even change classes any longer. Then, that was all that was on TV until they dropped Kennedy in his grave. Wall to wall coverage. Lord help us if that had happened to JFK today. 400 cable shows an hour. Wait till Slick Willie Klinton hits the dust. They will maul the TV screens of the greatest of all time for two weeks.
73 posted on 05/18/2007 7:03:27 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (America has lost its mind and is on its last days as a free country & Republic.)
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To: Jaysun
According to the late Mr. Hunt it was the Masons...
74 posted on 05/18/2007 7:03:39 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: drzz
On Zapruder film, Kennedy has his right temple destroyed with a large part of the head.

The temple was not "destroyed". As the bullet exited, the temple portion of his skull, which was attached to the skin of the temple, fell down like a flap, covering the right eye. In the autopsy photo, the flap has been moved back to its normal position, revealing that the right eye is still intact. What you see in your frame capture from the Zapruder film is the inside of the piece of skull as it flapped over the eye.

Morticians who worked on JFK's body to prepare it for burial actually had done a good job of restoring the head and face with the intent of having an open casket display. Jackie nixed the open casket, but it could have been done.

75 posted on 05/18/2007 7:09:05 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte
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To: drzz

Wow. That’s pretty amazing video and analysis.


76 posted on 05/18/2007 7:11:47 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: drzz
Is this why noone can find the autopsy photos of Ron Brown.

The Clintoons learned the lesson?

77 posted on 05/18/2007 7:15:00 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: VeritatisSplendor

You are right Mrs. VS. The other shooters would have just increased the number of shooting signatures and increased the Murphy’s Law factor.

The Carcano and Oswald were capable and could have fired the three shots in the time frame. The distances involved were very modest. The multi-shooter theorists always give the distances in feet instead of yards to make it seem that Oswald made longer shots. But the 2nd and 3rd shots (hits) were made at less than 66 yards.

Give me a Carcano with a cheapie scope and I’ll get hits on a pie plate-sized target at 200 yards.

CASE CLOSED is still the best book on the subject.


78 posted on 05/18/2007 7:49:32 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: drzz
Your second 'photograph' is not a photograph, but of a forensic medical illustration of an autopsy photograph.

Kennedy's wound and brain material were cleaned up by that time.

Conspiracists have been trying to establish Lifton's 'Best Evidence' theory using the difference between the Bethesda autopsy photographs and the medical illustrations for decades, just as you're doing now, but gave up quite a long time ago.

79 posted on 05/18/2007 8:11:51 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Fresh Wind

I am not saying the facts support or do not support a conspiracy, but if there were a conspiracy it wouldn’t be a surprise that 50 years was ample time to eliminate any of the sealed evidence that might be damning.


80 posted on 05/18/2007 10:29:21 AM PDT by SlapHappyPappy
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To: Roccus

I think you’re $10 is probably more accurate but I don’t recall for sure either. I do recall that year I paid $.09 9/10’s for a gallon of gas....


81 posted on 05/18/2007 11:21:04 AM PDT by Proud_texan (Just my opinion, no relationship to reality is expressed or implied.)
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To: BenLurkin
According to the late Mr. Hunt it was the Masons...

You might as well just swallow your cyanide pills now buddy, you've said too much.
82 posted on 05/18/2007 12:07:36 PM PDT by Jaysun (It's like people who hate corn bread and hate anchovies, but love cornchovie bread.)
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To: Jaysun

~~~~~~~~~~~~~from Wikipedia~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Early in the run of his show, an accident of fate made Haynes the first to report the Kennedy assassination on local news, together with his program director, Jay Watson. The two had attended the event at which Kennedy was to appear, then heard the deadly shots just after seeing the presidential motorcade round the corner. The men quickly located and interviewed eyewitnesses, going on the air shortly later: “ I ran three blocks back to the station, and Jay got some eyewitnesses and brought them over. He and I were the first to go live on local TV and report the terrible moment. I went home that afternoon, and Doris and I gathered our children around and discussed it as best we could. There was no direct discussion about it on Mr. Peppermint the next week. I didn’t feel qualified to counsel the viewers on it. We just behaved in a subdued and respectful manner. ” — Jerry Haynes on the Kennedy assassination[1] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coincidence...or something more sinister? Mr. Peppermint's cane could easily have been a disguised gun.
83 posted on 05/18/2007 4:03:33 PM PDT by FreedomForce
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To: kylaka
Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History"

Explains away all the JFK conspiracy BS.

Which is one reason articles like this are coming out. The conspiracy goofballs are scared.

84 posted on 05/18/2007 10:13:23 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Anti-socialist Bostonian, Anti-Illegal Immigration Bush supporter, Pro-Life Atheist)
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To: drzz

Vincent Bugliosi’s “Reclaiming History”


85 posted on 05/18/2007 10:14:07 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (Anti-socialist Bostonian, Anti-Illegal Immigration Bush supporter, Pro-Life Atheist)
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To: Shooter 2.5

.


86 posted on 05/19/2007 12:27:37 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Hunter '08)
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To: FreedomForce
Coincidence...or something more sinister? Mr. Peppermint's cane could easily have been a disguised gun.

This is very good stuff. Maybe too good. You should check your brake lines every morning before leaving to make sure they've not been cut.
87 posted on 05/19/2007 7:24:20 PM PDT by Jaysun (It's like people who hate corn bread and hate anchovies, but love cornchovie bread.)
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To: Darkwolf377
“Alexander sucked!”

I thought that was the whole point of the movie. (ducking for cover)

88 posted on 05/19/2007 7:40:01 PM PDT by Brucifer (JF'n Kerry- "That's not just a paper cut, it's a Purple Heart!")
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To: don-o
Didn’t the House committee conclude there was more than one shooter?

They did. But that conclusion was entiredly based on one piece of evidence, the acoustic evidence, that was later invalidated.

89 posted on 05/20/2007 6:52:11 PM PDT by mlo
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To: Aussie Dasher
A NEW analysis of remaining bullet fragments from the 1963 assassination of US president John F Kennedy suggests a second shooter may have been involved.

This news story is wrong. Even if every conclusion of this new study is correct, it does not suggest another shooter.

Previous NAA studies of the bullet fragments have said that all fragments came from only two bullets. This study says that it is *possible* that the fragments *could have* come from more than two. It doesn't suggest that there were in fact more than two, just that it can't be ruled out based on NAA.

90 posted on 05/20/2007 6:55:55 PM PDT by mlo
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To: moonman
Isn’t the 50 year sealed evidence and testimony gag order ready to expire in 6 years?

The files have already been released, following the JFK Records Act passed in the early 90's.

91 posted on 05/20/2007 6:58:49 PM PDT by mlo
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To: M.K. Borders
Yet then I have to believe that in an incredibly short time (7 seconds) Oswald missed his 1st two shots, but scored on the last very hurried one.

Your facts are off. He had over 8 seconds to get off three shots, but the clock doesn't start until the first shot is fired. He hit two out of three, at short range with the target moving almost directly away from him. A fairly easy shot.

92 posted on 05/20/2007 7:01:38 PM PDT by mlo
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To: drzz
And I remind you : the House Select Committe on Assassination said OFFICIALLY that JFK was likely killed by a conspiracy.

Which is only historical trivia since the reason for that finding has been invalidated.

93 posted on 05/20/2007 7:02:59 PM PDT by mlo
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To: Roccus

Even today, they’re advertised in Shotgun News for $39.99 or so. The contemporaries, US M-1 Garand, British Enfield, along the the German Mauser and the Russian Nagant sell for between $800 to $100 +/- depending on condition.


94 posted on 05/20/2007 7:15:02 PM PDT by investigateworld (These Border Patrol guys will do more time than a Jap POW Camp commander,thanks BUSH)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Bush did it!!!!

Whether you know it or not, there are some who link GHWB to JFK’s assassination. Not to be outdone, W took time off from campaigning to kill JFK,Jr. It’s on the internet so it must be true.


95 posted on 05/20/2007 7:32:03 PM PDT by Sapper26 ('Would you feel better if they was pushed outta windas?' Archie Bunker on gun control)
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To: Aussie Dasher

On multiple occasions trained snipers have recreated exactly what happened that day, and showed a sole gunman could have done everything.


96 posted on 05/20/2007 7:39:24 PM PDT by LukeL (Never let the enemy pick the battle site. (Gen. George S. Patton))
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To: drzz

bttt


97 posted on 05/22/2007 4:51:42 PM PDT by BlabItGrabIt (The Liebrals Shure Are Getting Cocky)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Bump to the 5/25/07 thread covering the same story.


98 posted on 05/25/2007 10:15:01 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Pray for the deliberately ignorant.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Sorry about the bump without a link. I had a "duh" moment. Here's the link
99 posted on 05/25/2007 10:17:40 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Pray for the deliberately ignorant.)
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To: Shooter 2.5

.


100 posted on 05/26/2007 6:40:43 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Hunter '08)
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