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Boy, 12, with toy gun shot, killed by police
Arkansas Democrat Gazette ^ | 24 JUN 07 | Jacob Quinn

Posted on 06/24/2007 9:03:49 AM PDT by DCBryan1

Boy, 12, with toy gun shot, killed by police

W. Memphis officers were on stakeout

BY JACOB QUINN SANDERS ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

A West Memphis police officer shot and killed a 12-year-old boy late Friday night, mistaking the child’s silver toy gun for a real handgun, authorities said Saturday.

The shooting occurred about 9:53 p.m. while two officers were on a stakeout hoping to break a string of convenience-store armed robberies near North 24th Street and Goodwin Avenue.

The officers waited in the dark parking lot of the Steeplechase Apartments just south of Interstate 40 and Interstate 55. They saw two people, yelling and running, and got out of the car to confront them, Assistant Police Chief Mike Allen said.

One of the two running had something in his hand that looked to one of the officers like a gun, Allen said.

“We carry Glock .40-caliber handguns, and this weapon appeared to be a silverish replica of that type of firearm,” Allen said.

The officers hollered at the two people, ordering one to drop the gun. The person made what Allen called an “evasive action,” and one officer fired at least two shots, the assistant chief said. “I don’t think the officer realized until after the shooting that this boy was as young as he was,” Allen said. “He just had no idea.”

The victim, DeAunta Farrow, graduated from the sixth grade at Maddux Elementary School 28 days earlier. “Believe it or not,” said his aunt, Katherine Townsend, “he wanted to be a police officer. It’s pretty bad that his life was taken by a police officer.”

Townsend said DeAunta was a “good neighborhood kid,” saying, “Yes, ma’am, no, ma’am,” and was often at the apartment complex, where another aunt and two cousins live. He was supposed to spend the night Friday with his cousin, Unseld Nance Jr., 14.

Instead, she said, Unseld saw his cousin die. West Memphis police called in Arkansas State Police investigators — one from Forrest City and one from Marianna — to make a report on the shooting to the Crittenden County prosecuting attorney’s office, which will decide whether to file criminal charges against the officers involved.

“If it takes a week, it takes a week,” state police spokesman Bill Sadler said Saturday. “If it takes two weeks, so be it.” Allen declined to identify the officers but said they were veterans with at least five years of experience in West Memphis. Both were placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation. The department has 83 sworn police officers for the city of 27,000 people.

“Something like this affects the whole community, not just our department,” Allen said. “Clearly, our hearts go out to this victim’s family. “This just tears you up. Both our officers in this thing have families of their own, and they’re hurting, too. They relied on their training and got the outcome every officer has nightmares about. At the same time, I would hate to know that they hesitated and found out that gun was real.” This was the first time in Allen’s almost 27 years on the West Memphis police force, he said, that someone carrying a fake gun had been shot by an officer. He said the neighborhood where the shooting occurred had changed substantially.

“I wouldn’t consider it a war zone or a real high-crime area,” he said. “Maybe 10 or 15 years ago it was. But now? I mean, have crimes occurred in that particular area? Yes. Have shootings occurred in that particular area? Yes. But it’s been getting a whole lot better.” Allen met Saturday morning with DeAunta’s mother, Debra Farrow, and a house full of other relatives and family friends.

“This is a very small town, and my son played football with someone who was a relative of this woman,” Allen said of the boy’s mother. The night before, he said, he had seen her “hyperventilate” at the scene of the shooting, several blocks from her home at 1917 Goodwin. “The only thing I can describe it as was she’s still in shock,” Allen said.

Townsend said family members were skeptical of the official version of events but still hope that they will get answers. “I don’t want to talk bad about the police because we need the police,” she said. “But I can only pray that justice is done.” She said children from all over the half-block-wide apartment complex saw the shooting.

“These kids are 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, and someone they know just got murdered,” she said. “How do they deal with that and still respect the police? “The reach of the police, it goes a long, long way — but the truth do, too. This child is not going to die in vain.”


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; crime; donutwatch; leo; memphis; police; toygun
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What happened to the days where 12 year olds were supposed to come home, clean up, and eat dinner with the family when the street lights turned on?
1 posted on 06/24/2007 9:03:52 AM PDT by DCBryan1
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To: DCBryan1

I agree. It is tragic but why was he running the streets at 10pm.


2 posted on 06/24/2007 9:06:42 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: DCBryan1

Prayers up for the family and the cop.....just damn.


3 posted on 06/24/2007 9:06:55 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Arm Pilots&Teachers. Build the Wall. Export Illegals. Profile Muslims.Kill all child molesters RFN!)
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To: DCBryan1
What happened to the days where 12 year olds were supposed to come home, clean up, and eat dinner with the family when the street lights turned on?

You're joking, right?

4 posted on 06/24/2007 9:09:47 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: svcw
why was he running the streets at 10pm.

Because 12 year old kids should be allowed to enjoy themselves? This wasn't "the streets" ... it's an apartment complex parking lot. What you said - "running the streets" - clearly implies the kid was doing something wrong, but all evidence from the story suggests he was just horsing around with his cousin.

I'm sure if this had been a nice suburban neighborhood and the kid's name was Kevin, you'd be outraged that the police shot him, even at 10 p.m.

5 posted on 06/24/2007 9:18:34 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder

You sir are an ass.
I never implied, you however inferred that I meant he was doing something wrong.
He was 12 and it was 10pm, why wasn’t he home with his family?

I am pretty sure I used the phrase “tragic”. It is a horrible price to pay for this young man, yet it does not answer the question why was he out at 10pm? Where was his family?


6 posted on 06/24/2007 9:30:48 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: svcw
Because 12 year old kids should be allowed to enjoy themselves?

"ENJOY themselves"?!! by running from cops and pointing guns (later found to be fake) at cops?

Sure sounds like you are a couple of fries short of a happy meal.

7 posted on 06/24/2007 9:35:08 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Arm Pilots&Teachers. Build the Wall. Export Illegals. Profile Muslims.Kill all child molesters RFN!)
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To: SittinYonder
Because 12 year old kids should be allowed to enjoy themselves?

"ENJOY themselves"?!! by running from cops and pointing guns (later found to be fake) at cops?

Sure sounds like you are a couple of fries short of a happy meal.

Opps..Sorry svcw....

8 posted on 06/24/2007 9:36:06 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Arm Pilots&Teachers. Build the Wall. Export Illegals. Profile Muslims.Kill all child molesters RFN!)
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To: DCBryan1

Glad for the oops..I was going to let you have it ;-).


9 posted on 06/24/2007 9:40:22 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: DCBryan1

Nonsense! Why, when I was 12 years old we used to run around at 10pm pointing realistic-looking guns at cops on stakeouts all the time! They just chuckled and said, “Kids...” (/sarc)


10 posted on 06/24/2007 9:48:27 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: DCBryan1
by running from cops and pointing guns (later found to be fake) at cops?

Did you read the story? They weren't running from cops and pointing guns. They were horsing around in an apartment complex parking lot, one of them had a toy gun. The cops jumped out of their car and drew down on two kids who were playing ... playing, not pointing toy guns at the cops or running from the cops ...

I'm not faulting the cops, necessarily, but to criticize this kid or his family because he was outside playing is foolish.

12 years old is not too young to be outside playing at 10 p.m. on a Friday night in the summer when you're spending the night at your cousin's house.

Read the story, it doesn't support your claim that they were "running from cops and pointing guns"

Kids play with toy guns, they yell when they're outside. There's nothing wrong with it ... unless you're one of those who thinks toy guns should be banned.

11 posted on 06/24/2007 9:53:20 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: svcw
You sir are an ass.

Maybe, but on the forum we're supposed to stay away from personal attacks, so I won't tell you what you are.

I never implied, you however inferred that I meant he was doing something wrong.

"Running the streets" has the implication that the kids were doing something wrong. Argue against it all day, but it does.

yet it does not answer the question why was he out at 10pm? Where was his family?

10 p.m. is not too late for a 12 year old to be outside playing with his cousin on a Friday in the summer. Either you don't have kids this age or your kids think you're an ass.

12 posted on 06/24/2007 9:56:44 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: DCBryan1
That's tragic. Poor kid. He paid a terrible price for ignoring the police officer's orders. Prayers up for the boy's loved ones and for the officer's and their loved ones.

Jesse Jackson is probably already on the way to Arkansas. The reason I say that is because he got thrown into jail in Chicago yesterday while he was protesting outside of a gun store. They were protesting that 35 school kids have been killed by guns since the first of the year. This will be a good chance for him to further his anti gun agenda!

13 posted on 06/24/2007 9:59:08 AM PDT by NRA2BFree ("The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves!")
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To: svcw; glock rocks; Brad's Gramma

Three days ago I called the local PD line to ask if childrens handguns today had magazines that go in the handle such as a Glock 17 or a SIG-Sauer P226 does. The dispatcher didn’t know. So I asked her to send an officer around because I had some youngsters about 10 or 12 playing with such a toy or maybe a weapon on the street. He was showing it to some other kids and I had no idea what their intentions were. One black gun and four young kids is what I saw.

Nobody was wearing a visible holster like we did when I used to play cowboys and indians with Moses and that gang who later built the Ark.

Fifteen minutes later a cop came by and I explained what I’d seen. He said it was probably an Airsoft, whatever that is, but he’d go locate the kid and check it out. Sure enough that’s what it was but from 50 feet away I couldn’t tell the difference.

If my wife had been out in front of the house I would have sent her inside immediately because of my lack of ability to determine what it was the kid had, a weapon or a toy. If the kid had aimed it at her back as she was walkiing towards the house, I hate to think what the results would have been.


14 posted on 06/24/2007 10:05:58 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Check out this website for the National Veterans Coalition http://www.nvets.org/)
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To: SittinYonder

Once again, you inferred I meant he was doing something wrong.

I disagree, that 10pm is not to late for a child to be out running around.

I have lots of kids, but I do wonder about your children and their behavior as well as their safety.

As a side note, I would not view ass as a personal attach just a statement of fact.


15 posted on 06/24/2007 10:08:04 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: DCBryan1

If it was to dark for the officer to see the child. Would that be a Black on Black crime?


16 posted on 06/24/2007 10:08:41 AM PDT by BigCinBigD (You "abort" bad missile launches and carrier landings. Not babies.)
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To: svcw; eyespysomething
Once again, you inferred I meant he was doing something wrong.

What does "running the streets" mean? If his cousin lives in an apartment complex, the parking lot is the kid's front yard.

I disagree, that 10pm is not to late for a child to be out running around.

Friday night in the summer, 12 yrs old, and you think 10 p.m. is too late to be outside?

I do wonder about your children and their behavior as well as their safety.

My children are very well behaved and plenty safe, so don't worry.

As a side note, I would not view ass as a personal attach just a statement of fact.

Fine, then you're an ass.

17 posted on 06/24/2007 10:19:44 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder

Now we are getting somewhere.


18 posted on 06/24/2007 10:23:33 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: B4Ranch

The Airsoft guns are replicas of real guns. Some are black, and other than the orange tip at the end are completely indistinguishable from a real gun. They have magazines just like real guns.

My kids have the clear plastic airsoft guns. One of them has a replica of a gun I own. I held the airsoft up to my gun and it is identical in size.

We won’t get them the black guns simply because they look so much like real guns. The clear ones, even from a distance, shouldn’t confuse anyone.

Do a google image search for airsoft and you’ll be astonished by how real they look.


19 posted on 06/24/2007 10:24:13 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: svcw
Now we are getting somewhere.

LOL ... I knew we'd come to an agreement ;-)

20 posted on 06/24/2007 10:25:26 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder

In my little town here in southwest PA the fire alarm sounds at 9:45 every night. Thats the curfew. Under 18 years old get off the streets. Yes weekends too.


21 posted on 06/24/2007 10:31:38 AM PDT by 4yearlurker (Liberals, A terrorists best friend!)
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To: 4yearlurker
In my little town here in southwest PA the fire alarm sounds at 9:45 every night.

Sounds like your little town in southwest PA has a rabidly out-of-control city council bent on ruling the lives of its citizens. That sort of government interference in people's private lives is inexcusable, IMO.

Not only does it seek to usurp the authority of the parents, but it greatly limits the opportunities available to 16 and 17 years olds who are looking for part-time, after school jobs. When I was in high school, I bagged groceries until the store closed at 10 p.m. and then mopped the store until I got off work at midnight.

Have you considered running for office against these communists on your city council?

22 posted on 06/24/2007 10:36:28 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder

If two or more kids had similar full sized handguns I probably would have been more willing to assume they were on their way to go target practicing or that they were actually playing cops and robbers.

The fact that just one of them had a gun and he was letting the other kids examine it made me think that he had his dads gun, without permission of course. The one thing that they had going in their favor was that they didn’t make any effort to conceal it until the ‘owner’ tucked it into his belt beneath his T-shirt and they all rode away on their bikes.

Working against them was that the sun was behind them which obscured my vision and that it was a full size weapon. The other three kids live up the street from me and they are normal guys. The gun ‘owner’ was a new kid to me.


23 posted on 06/24/2007 10:38:08 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Check out this website for the National Veterans Coalition http://www.nvets.org/)
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To: SittinYonder
Someone under 18 can still be out at night with someone over 18. If a youngster wants to get a job that keeps them out past curfew,the parents can pick them up. Having a curfew holds the parents responsible if the youngster is caught out at night. Thus making the parent keep an eye on their kids so the kids aren’t out getting into trouble.
24 posted on 06/24/2007 10:52:12 AM PDT by 4yearlurker (Liberals, A terrorists best friend!)
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To: 4yearlurker
Thus making the parent keep an eye on their kids so the kids aren’t out getting into trouble.

Good thing we've got government making sure we're responsible.

25 posted on 06/24/2007 11:07:21 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder
There are a lot of parents out there who are not responsible. What is the big problem with curfews for kids? There was a curfew in the town where I grew up. Although it was 11 PM we weren’t thinking about robbing and killing. Not like a lot of these little monsters nowadays.
26 posted on 06/24/2007 11:13:21 AM PDT by 4yearlurker (Liberals, A terrorists best friend!)
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To: B4Ranch
Our kids and their friends frequently have "Airsoft wars" in the woods across the street from the house or sometimes in the yard, but we don't allow them to play with them just any time. They fire little plastic balls that could do damage to the eye (they also sting like he!!). So they only get them out and play with them when everyone playing has protection on their eyes.

There are also a couple of Airsoft and/or paintball fields set up where you pay to play against others or for a group to rent or whatever. We've never used those, so I don't really know how they work.

Airsoft, IMO, are not very good for cops and robbers type playing, though I know a lot of kids do use them like that.

27 posted on 06/24/2007 11:14:24 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder

According to local news in Memphis the police were on stake out for drug dealers...kid was told repeatedly to put the item in his hand down and he ignore the policeman’s order. When he aimed at them they opened fire. A tragic situation all around.


28 posted on 06/24/2007 11:30:00 AM PDT by GailA (I'm a quilt-a-holic and proud of it. Run Fred Run!)
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To: GailA

Correction my memory was faulty they were looking for thugs who repeatedly broke in to local businesses...probably to feed drug habits.


29 posted on 06/24/2007 11:32:38 AM PDT by GailA (I'm a quilt-a-holic and proud of it. Run Fred Run!)
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To: 4yearlurker
What is the big problem with curfews for kids?

I can't imagine the government telling me what time my kids have to be home.

Our oldest son, 11, has a friend down the street who is 10. Frequently, the neighbor kid stays late and watches movies with us on Friday nights. Sometimes, especially during the summer, they play in the yard or back and forth between our house and his house. Often, they're playing until 10 or 10:30 at night.

Our son always walks him home. If we lived in your town, my son would be in trouble with the law.

As I've been instructed on this thread today, my child shouldn't be out that late, he is poorly behaved because he is out that late, I am a bad parent because he is out that late and, if he's toting an Airsoft gun, he deserves to be shot by the police for being out that late.

That's all well and good for all the folks who have been educating me this afternoon, but I'm pretty satisfied with the behavior of my children, they're pretty happy playing outside after dark, and I wouldn't stand for any city council telling me that my son has to be in the house at 10 p.m.

My desire is to get my kids outside as often as I can.

When I was in high school, my curfew - set by my parents - was midnight. That gave me time to work an after school job, it gave me time to take girls to movies that didn't start until 8 p.m., it gave me time to take those girls down to the baseball field to make-out before they had to be home.

Kids should be allowed to be kids, and the government doesn't need to force them indoors when there's all kinds of fun stuff for them to be doing.

Although it was 11 PM we weren’t thinking about robbing and killing. Not like a lot of these little monsters nowadays.

The difference, I guess, is that I don't see them as "little monsters" plotting murder. Maybe they're going to roll a yard, but rolling yards is fun, too.

30 posted on 06/24/2007 11:33:32 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: GailA
The officers hollered at the two people, ordering one to drop the gun. The person made what Allen called an “evasive action,” and one officer fired at least two shots, the assistant chief said.

The story doesn't say the kid was repeatedly told to do anything. The story also doesn't say the kid aimed at the police.

Whether or not the kid made a poor decision by not obeying the cop's orders is not in question. I've disputed the assertions by some that the kids were "running the streets" or that their parents should not have allowed them to be out at 9:53 p.m. I've also disputed the claims that they were running from the police or pointing fake guns at the police. If the local news is saying that's what they were doing, fine ... this story is all I've read, all I know about it, and it doesn't indicate that they were doing either of those things.

Instead, the story says they were yelling - which kids are apt to do when they're outside playing - and running - which kids are apt to do when they're outside playing.

The cops, who were there on a stakeout, inserted themselves into the situation when they heard the yelling and saw the running, according to the story.

Again, I don't know that the cops necessarily did anything wrong. But this story does not suggest to me that the kids or their parents were doing anything wrong, either.

A tragic situation all around.

Yes.

31 posted on 06/24/2007 11:44:15 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder
Who’s talking about keeping them indoors????? The curfew is to keep the kids off the streets. It’s like the old public service spot on TV “It’s 10 o’clock.Do you know where your children are?”

P.S. Stop taking everything so personally. Sheesh.

32 posted on 06/24/2007 11:53:57 AM PDT by 4yearlurker (Liberals, A terrorists best friend!)
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To: SittinYonder

“Kids play with toy guns, they yell when they’re outside. There’s nothing wrong with it ...”

Run around my neighborhood yelling and playing “guns” at 10 PM and I’m calling the cops.


33 posted on 06/24/2007 1:37:18 PM PDT by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: SittinYonder
I'm not faulting the cops, necessarily, but to criticize this kid or his family because he was outside playing is foolish.

12 years old is not too young to be outside playing at 10 p.m. on a Friday night in the summer when you're spending the night at your cousin's house.


Sez who? 12 years old is certainly too young to be outside unsupervised in my family and was in the family I grew up in.
34 posted on 06/24/2007 2:21:27 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: DCBryan1

I remember when I was a kid, in the Summer, we’d leave the house right after breakfast (sometimes right after sunrise after a bowl of Captain Crunch) and run about the neighborhood until lunch. Some times we’d go home for lunch and sometimes someone’s mom would make PB&J sandwiches and Kool-Aid for every kid in the neighborhood.

We’d eat, drink and then go right back to playing.

The boys played baseball and dodge ball or with matchbox cars or played pretend cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians or WWII battle games with toy guns.

Us girls skipped rope and played house and with our Barbies, but some of us girls (like me) liked to play the pretend games with the boys with toy guns because it was more fun and we didn’t want to wait and sit at the edge of the yard, just playing nurse to the pretend “casualties”.

I remember fighting with the boys, saying I should have a gun too, if only for self defense and that I was a very good baseball catcher.

I also remember fighting with some of the girls saying that being a girl was about more they looking pretty…. I guess I was a Tomboy.

We’d play pretty much unsupervised, running and riding bikes (without knee pads and helmets) and although we really didn’t know at the time, every parent in the neighborhood was looking out for each and every one of us.

If we were lucky some kid in the neighborhood had a pool in his back yard or a trampoline.

We’d go home at dinnertime when our stay at home mom, dad and sisters and brothers, all ate a meal together, that mom lovingly cooked for us, and then we’d chomp at the bit to go back outside until dark or sometimes after.

We didn’t know why or how, but we felt safe. We didn’t worry about drug pushers, child molesters and pedophiles. We weren’t allergic to peanut butter and we weren’t on prescription drugs for hyperactivity. Our neighbors allowed us to play in their yards and pools without any lawyers being involved. If one kid hit another, no one called the police but some kid got a spanking and had to make an apology and got grounded.

I’m not taking a hundred years ago here, but the late 60’s, early 70’s.

But times have really changed since then.

Today, in the inner city and even some suburbs, kids as young as ten or even younger are heavily involved in the drug trade. They have no mother or father or caring neighbor to look after them, the drug pushers are their only source of family and stability. Some of these kids aren’t pretending, they carry real guns and aren’t afraid to shoot at the police. And sometimes the police have no choice but to shoot back

Sad.

I wouldn’t want to be a kid again if I had to be a kid now days.


35 posted on 06/24/2007 5:19:52 PM PDT by Caramelgal (Rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings, not on the words or superficial interpretations)
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To: B4Ranch

The fact that just one of them had a gun and he was letting the other kids examine it made me think that he had his dads gun, without permission of course.

Or that he was a kid showing off his toy, sheesh, you must live in a bad neighborhood to be so negative.


36 posted on 06/24/2007 5:37:57 PM PDT by Shimmer128
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To: Shimmer128

Actually I live in a very quiet upper class area. Children with weapons on the street are a very unusual sight though.

Just guessing, but I would imagine at least 50% of my neighbors have firearms. A few that I know have nice collections.


37 posted on 06/24/2007 8:32:44 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Check out this website for the National Veterans Coalition http://www.nvets.org/)
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To: SittinYonder

i live in muskogee, oklahoma, but i was raised in west memphis. i do have two children in that age group, and they are allowed to stay on our street until 9 pm. i dont think i was allowed to stay out after dark until i was about 15 or so. first off, if the cops were staking out the apt complex for drugs, why would you even let your kids stay out there after dark, hoping they get in on the cut? i do agree that children should have a little freedom when they turn 10 or 11, but a little at a time. give them too much, you pay for it later on. when you live in a suspect place, you have to act accordingly. i do not agree that the kid should have been shot, i hate it, makes my heart break for him and his parents, what a lesson to be learned that way, but what was the cop supposed to do... get close enough to see that it wasn’t a real gun and get shot? its just a sad situation all around, but making it out to a race thing is not going to bring that boy back. we have to get a point that we make some changes on how we raise our children... white and black! thanks for readin!


38 posted on 06/26/2007 12:25:40 PM PDT by 8n12yosmom
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To: DCBryan1

What happened to the days of playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians without being shot by undercover cops?


39 posted on 06/26/2007 1:39:35 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Rudy: When you absolutely,positively need a liberal for President.)
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To: A_perfect_lady

Me too. Never saw the cops, though. I grew up in the boonies, sort of.

Some nights we’d be out WAY past midnight. Heck, we used to go camping without any parents when i was 12. We didn’t bring toy guns, either, we brought our real guns. And fishing poles. And matches. Sometimes we’d steal a can of beer, too. Nobody ever thought to bring an opener, though, so we’d usually just end up shooting it off a stump in the morning.


40 posted on 06/26/2007 1:46:23 PM PDT by Clam Digger
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To: Caramelgal

Caramelgal,

I don’t remember you but it sounds like you grew up in my neighborhood (around the same time). :)


41 posted on 06/26/2007 3:35:01 PM PDT by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: 8n12yosmom
if the cops were staking out the apt complex for drugs, why would you even let your kids stay out there after dark

That's not why the cops were there.making it out to a race thing is not going to bring that boy back.

I didn't.

but what was the cop supposed to do... get close enough to see that it wasn’t a real gun and get shot?

You do understand, don't you, that if the cop had gotten close enough to see that it was not a real gun he would not have been shot.

I'm not necessarily faulting the cops. This was clearly a tragic accident. However, the police officers inserted themselves into this situation. No crime was committed by these kids.

I wasn't there and didn't see what happened, my information is limited to what is in this story, but the people on this thread who attempted to cast blame on the kids or their parents are off base.

42 posted on 06/26/2007 3:38:10 PM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: Caramelgal
I’m not taking a hundred years ago here, but the late 60’s, early 70’s.

It was like that in the late 70s and 80s when I was growing up, also. And in the neighborhood where I live now, it's still like that.

Except for the woman who owns the home (but rents it) across the street. She won't let the kids in her yard because she thinks we'll sue her if they get hurt.

43 posted on 06/26/2007 3:45:25 PM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder
It was like that in the late 70s and 80s when I was growing up, also. `And in the neighborhood where I live now, it's still like that.

I’m so glad you still live in a good place like we had when growing up as kids.

It reminds me of how things used to be.

One day I was waking home from school (First or Second Grade) when one of the neighborhood boys started throwing rocks at me and my friends. I got hit in the head really hard by a big rock and I came home crying and I told my Dad, who after making sure I wasn’t really hurt, consoled me but told me that while that was wrong, “that’s just the way some boys act”. He asked me who did it but before I could even tell him, a knock came at the door.

Standing at our door was our Church Pastor and his son; the son holding a bouquet of flowers in his hands and with many tears in his eyes. The pastor’s son (the rock thrower), asked for me and made a very tearful apology to me and gave me the flowers. Then our Pastor went on to explain to my parents how some other kids in the neighborhood witnessed what happened and “reported” him to his mom and dad and he went on to explain how “Eric” would be punished and grounded for what he did and taught a very important lesson.

Now feeling a lot more sorry for “Eric” than I did for myself, I accepted the flowers and the apology and my parents were glad that “Eric” was taught a lesson and all was well.

There were no lawyers, no councilors or behavioral drugs involved. “Eric” didn’t throw any more rocks and everyone in the neighborhood continued to get along just fine.
44 posted on 06/26/2007 4:39:57 PM PDT by Caramelgal (Rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings, not on the words or superficial interpretations)
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To: DCBryan1

Seems that law enforcement agencies are doing a bad job at weeding out the trigger-happy types in the hiring process. Either that or they’re teaching a very bad cirriculum at the police academies/BLET.


45 posted on 06/26/2007 7:41:15 PM PDT by Firefigher NC
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To: SittinYonder
You do understand, don't you, that if the cop had gotten close enough to see that it was not a real gun he would not have been shot.

How was the cop supposed to know that? It's so easy to sit back after the fact and say, well, just get really, really, really close to the suspicious-acting person waving a gun, and check and see if it's real first. But you'd have a lot more dead cops that way.

46 posted on 06/26/2007 8:11:08 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady
I didn't say the cop was supposed to know that, did I?

The person I was posting to said this:

but what was the cop supposed to do... get close enough to see that it wasn’t a real gun and get shot?

My only point in my response was that the cop would not have been shot. It was not a real gun.

You won't find anyone more pro-law enforcement than me. My best friend is a sheriff. I've been with his deputies when they were shot at. I've spent many, many, many hours hanging out with them while they are working and while they are playing.

But in this situation, no crime was committed. Cops inserted themselves into a situation when they had not been called upon. The only danger that existed was in their heads.

I am not blaming the cop, though I suspect he is blaming himself all the time. But - again - the people here who immediately cast blame on the parents or the kids were off base, in my opinion.

47 posted on 06/26/2007 8:22:36 PM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: SittinYonder
The only danger that existed was in their heads? They were on stake out to stop a string of ARMED ROBBERIES... presumably using real guns. Someone goes running through that same area yelling and waving a gun... Hello? Are they supposed to assume that all guns are fake until proven otherwise? And that people acting suspiciously right in the area they are investigating are probably just playing?

I mean, if you were a cop staking out an area, where, say, dead women bound in duct tape keep turning up, and one night a woman runs by screaming, followed by a guy waving duct tape, that... well... probably has nothing to do with it? Better stay out of it? Come on!

48 posted on 06/27/2007 8:27:10 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: SittinYonder

I should add that the kid was definitely at fault because when the officer yelled STOP, he didn’t STOP. When the police tell you to STOP, you STOP.


49 posted on 06/27/2007 8:29:21 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady
I mean, if you were a cop staking out an area, where, say, dead women bound in duct tape keep turning up, and one night a woman runs by screaming, followed by a guy waving duct tape, that... well... probably has nothing to do with it? Better stay out of it? Come on!

That's not hardly the same thing, is it?

They were on stake out to stop a string of ARMED ROBBERIES...

In convenience stores, not apartment complex parking lots.

The only danger that existed was in their heads?

Yes, and if you can't understand that then you have no ability for rational thought. Toy gun = no danger. The only danger that existed was in their heads, in their imaginations. At no point during this incident were those police officers ever in any danger at all whatsoever.

Perceived danger is different from real danger. I wasn't there and did not see what happened, so whether the perceived danger warranted him firing his gun or not, I can't say.

But as someone who shoots guns and has been with police when someone shot at them with a real gun (and they did not return fire), I can tell you that I would never pull my trigger without knowing what I was shooting.

The assistant police chief himself said this area had, 10 - 15 years ago, been a high crime area but it no longer was:

“I wouldn’t consider it a war zone or a real high-crime area,” he said. “Maybe 10 or 15 years ago it was. But now? I mean, have crimes occurred in that particular area? Yes. Have shootings occurred in that particular area? Yes. But it’s been getting a whole lot better.”

If you are a cop and you are in a residential area (ie. apartment complex) and you insert yourself into a situation and you fire your gun without knowing what you are firing at, you have made a terrible and tragic mistake.

I'm not saying it was criminal. I'm not saying he should lose his job.

But blaming the parents or the kids is stupid.

50 posted on 06/27/2007 10:56:48 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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