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VANITY: Sprint Wireless "Implicit" Contract Renewal?

Posted on 06/28/2007 9:06:50 PM PDT by undeniable logic

OK - this is clearly a vanity, but I'm looking for some advice here.

My wife and I have had Sprint PCS for some time. We got new phones Dec 2004 with a 2 year contract that should have ended Dec 2006. We are on a family plan.

In October 2005, we added two phones for my parents to our plan, using the $10 per phone add-a-phone option. We were told that their two lines would have a two year contract, but our contract on the original two line would be unaffected. They explained that the lines would have different contract end dates.

So, now we moved and in our area the Sprint service sucks. We knew it would in advance and made sure with sprint that we could cancel our two lines since our contract had expired and turn my parents into the primary on the plan. They said, no problem.

Now, we try to cancel and they tell us that our contract "automatically renewed" when we added our parents to the plan and that we would have to pay an early termination fee to cancel.

So I ask him to provide me with a written contract where we agreed to renew for two years. He says that he can't but that it's irrelevant because they "sent us a notice that our contract would automatically be renewed for two years and we didn't contest it." So I say, I never got this notice and even if I did, a contract requires a signature. Otherwise, I'd like Sprint to pay us the millions of dollars that I charged them in a notice that they did not contest.

So, he counteracts with, we agreed to a contract renewal over the phone. So I tell him to provide us with audio proof and he says they don't store it, but that is irrelevant because by using the phone we are implicitly agreeing to the Terms of Service, which provide for the automatic contract renewal. So I ask him to point me to it, and he first points me to the following:

Add-a-Phone: Requires a minimum two-year Term agreement for each line added (“Secondary Line”). The first phone activated on the service plan (“Primary Line”) and Secondary Lines may have different Term end dates. If the Primary Line on the account is terminated prior to the expiration of the Term of any Secondary Line, a Secondary Line will become the Primary Line.

I tell him that this is consistent with my story. That the two added lines have contracts that end in October, while ours ended in December and that we would like the two secondary lines to become the primary.

So, he says that when we added the two lines, we changed the plan, because we had to go from a 2 line plan to a 4 line plan. And a change in plan automatically renews the contract. First, this seems like nonsense to me because if thats the case it makes the entire section in the Terms of Service useless, since it is impossible to add a line (or 2) to a plan without changing the plan. I ask him to show me where the TOS says that a change in the plan automatically renews the contract for 2 years:

Your Ability To Change Services & When Changes Are Effective: You typically can change Services upon request. In some instances, changes may be conditioned on payment of an Early Termination Fee or certain other charges, or they may require you to accept a new Term Commitment. Changes to Services are usually effective at the start of your next full invoicing cycle. If the changes take place sooner, your invoice may reflect pro-rated charges for your old and new Services.

He claims that this shows that the contract is automatically renewed. I say that it shows that Sprint "may require me to accept a new Term commitment." In this case, they didn't require it and I didn't accept it. He says that Sprint may require it and they chose to and by continuing to use the phone I've implicitly accepted the new contract.

To me, this is a bunch of nonsense. I'm no lawyer, but I cannot see how we "implicitly" agreed to a new contract. Even if we did, the TOS doesn't state if its a 1 year, 2 year, or 2 million year contract. It seems clear as a bell to me that the agreement says (i) add a line and the line has its own contract term which may differ from the primarily line, (ii) when the primarily line's contract has ended, it may be canceled and the secondary line becomes the primarily line, and (iii) if changes are requested on the account, in order for the changes to be made Sprint may ask for a new contract.

So what do I do? He stated emphatically that if I cancel, Sprint will charge me an early termination fee for the two lines. He agreed that he has no contract with my signature and no audio tape with my agreement; he agrees that Sprint has no proof that I agreed to any renewal on the contract. But he emphatically states that simply by using the phone, I've agreed to the contract renewal.

Am I right or wrong here? If I'm right, what do I do? I don't want to cancel and have them place me in collections and ding my credit history. I was thinking about going to the NYC department of consumer affairs, but I have no idea of what to expect.

Thanks for your help! Sorry for the long description.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: sprint

1 posted on 06/28/2007 9:06:52 PM PDT by undeniable logic
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To: undeniable logic

I just wound up staying with sprint. They automatically renew when your contract is up too. Seems there is a one day window, but I am not even sure about that.


2 posted on 06/28/2007 9:10:29 PM PDT by gidget7 ( Vote for the Arsenal of Democracy, because America RUNS on Duncan!)
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To: undeniable logic

The fee for switching numbers between the phones might be less than the early cancellation fee.


3 posted on 06/28/2007 9:12:57 PM PDT by AZLiberty (President Fred -- I like the sound of it.)
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To: undeniable logic

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html


4 posted on 06/28/2007 9:14:11 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: gidget7

But how can they automatically renew? I thought in America a contract requires some sort of signature. I don’t believe the original contract states that the contract automatically renews with a 1-day grace period. And even if it does, if they can’t produce the original contract with my signature, then it doesn’t matter what the original contract says.


5 posted on 06/28/2007 9:14:49 PM PDT by undeniable logic
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To: Prokopton

Thanks for the link, its the type I was looking for. I’m still wondering if anyone can tell me what to expect going forward through the fcc? What kind of “fight” will I have or does the fcc just take over? Or does simply having the fcc involved scare Sprint into doing the right thing?


6 posted on 06/28/2007 9:16:38 PM PDT by undeniable logic
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To: undeniable logic

These telcos have at least two layers of clerk-grade worker bees whose function is to keep you from jumping ship. You will have to relentlessly climb up the supervisory chain until you get someone who can make a decision. I always complain to them that if they can’t get me a supervisor who can make a decision that the whole conversation is imbalanced because they are asking me to make a decision.

It’s common practice for these telcos to restart your service commitment term upon a change in the contract, but you need to get a copy of your service contract and ask them to show you where it says that your continued use of the phone post-contract-expiry automatically renews your contract upon the same terms as it was begun. That seems unenforceable to me.


7 posted on 06/28/2007 9:19:17 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (When Bubba lies, the finger flies!)
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To: undeniable logic
So what do I do? He stated emphatically that if I cancel, Sprint will charge me an early termination fee for the two lines. He agreed that he has no contract with my signature and no audio tape with my agreement; he agrees that Sprint has no proof that I agreed to any renewal on the contract. But he emphatically states that simply by using the phone, I've agreed to the contract renewal. Am I right or wrong here?

You're right. Climb up the ladder of supervisors until you get satisfaction. Failing that, have a lawyer send them a letter telling them you're taking them to small claims court. If they don't respond in an appropriate manner, file a small claims court action. You'll go; they'll have to spend money to send a representative (if not, they'll probably lose the case); you'll meet with an arbitrator; there you'll tell your story and then show them the quote above about the different phones having different time frames of service. Against this clear description, their claims of your "not contesting" something that they can't show you ever saw, their claims that you agreed to something you never heard and of which they have no recording, and their claims that there is an implicit renewal will all look like the calculating screw-you-over ploy it actually is. The judge will probably find against them. But I bet they settle before going this far because their lawyers will be more expensive than giving in to you. They'll do what costs them the least. But you've got to provide the context and set the bar.
8 posted on 06/28/2007 9:23:08 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: undeniable logic
Sprint's argument is legally bogus, but it may well cost you more than it is worth to prove that in court. However, if Sprint is putting other customers through the same BS, you may find a lawyer willing to sponsor a class action suit--perhaps including a RICO suit. You might also get the FTC and/or the FCC, oven your State PUC, interested in going to bat for you. Another possibility is a local TV station that has a "wronged consumer" advocacy show or reporter.

Some lawyers will give you an initial consultation at no charge. Depending on the law in your State, you may also be able to use Small Claims Court.

9 posted on 06/28/2007 9:23:34 PM PDT by sourcery (Global Warming: It's the Sun, Stupid!)
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To: aruanan
You're right. Climb up the ladder of supervisors until you get satisfaction. Failing that, have a lawyer send them a letter telling them you're taking them to small claims court. If they don't respond in an appropriate manner, file a small claims court action. You'll go; they'll have to spend money to send a representative (if not, they'll probably lose the case); you'll meet with an arbitrator; there you'll tell your story and then show them the quote above about the different phones having different time frames of service. Against this clear description, their claims of your "not contesting" something that they can't show you ever saw, their claims that you agreed to something you never heard and of which they have no recording, and their claims that there is an implicit renewal will all look like the calculating screw-you-over ploy it actually is. The judge will probably find against them. But I bet they settle before going this far because their lawyers will be more expensive than giving in to you. They'll do what costs them the least. But you've got to provide the context and set the bar.

So at what point do I get the lawyer involved? Do I cancel, wait for them to bill me and then bring in the lawyer? This guy was the second guy up the chain of supervisors - maybe I need to go higher. I'd like to cancel immediately because I don't want to pay for service I'm not using. If its choosing between paying the early cancellation fee and continuing the service, it financially makes sense to continue the service (even if unused) until October.

I'm pretty ignorant about the law, but what do I take them to small claims court for? I'm not suing them for money, I'm just trying to prevent them from charging me for something I don't owe. How does this work?

10 posted on 06/28/2007 9:28:19 PM PDT by undeniable logic
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder
It’s common practice for these telcos to restart your service commitment term upon a change in the contract

I know this may be the case, but for a new contract, don't they need a new agreement? When we upgraded our phones and got the new 2 year contract, we had to sign an agreement - an explicit agreement to extend the contract. I don't understand how it can automatically extend without an agreement, when their own terms of service says that Sprint "may require you to accept a new Term Commitment". Without a written agreement, whose to say if they required an acceptance of a new Term Commitment and whose to say whether I agreed to such an acceptance?

11 posted on 06/28/2007 9:31:49 PM PDT by undeniable logic
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To: undeniable logic

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/08/cell_phone_comp.html


12 posted on 06/28/2007 9:34:01 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: undeniable logic
I'm not suing them for money, I'm just trying to prevent them from charging me for something I don't owe. How does this work?

Tell the guy to write all these things he's claiming and to sign and date it so that you can go to court and claim that they're breaching their otherwise clearly-defined contract when you cancel and they charge you. Then ask them if they want to go ahead and meet you in court or do they want to honor the letter of their contract. I think if they know you'll pursue this to whichever level it takes to get satisfaction and they see that their part in answering you will cost them more than just abiding by the stated terms of the contract, they'll settle.
13 posted on 06/28/2007 9:35:22 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: undeniable logic

How will they be charging you? On a bill or a credit card?

You don’t need a lawyer for small claims court but I’m not sure how you use small claims to contest a bill.

If they bill you, they should have a process for contesting it. They can’t make you pay them, they can only ding your credit and you can contest that with the credit reporting bureaus.

If they charge your credit card you can contest that through your card provider, should be an automatic win, because with no signed contract, your card provider will NOT honor their bogus automatic renewal policy.

I think you need to stop asking the sprint people and start telling them what you will do and what you expect them to do. You don’t have to be rude, just firm.

You have it writing about the add a phone option and it is quite clear that they have different terms of service and there is no way they can legally enforce their automatic renewal crap, it’s just something they say to buffalo you.


14 posted on 06/28/2007 9:54:26 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Social vs fiscal conservatism? Sorry, I'm not voting my wallet over the broken bodies of the innocen)
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To: undeniable logic

Although the cellphone mafia is very visible, actually all of what is left of corporate America resembles the hotel thief checking every door knob for an opportunity to steal. Insurance companies, hospitals, are golden , you just pay whatever they say or they will affect your credit, which will increase your premiums and charges,etc etc and so forth, and there simply is no recourse. Now, phone companies, and other utilities, are a different matter, if you are willing to retire and devote the rest of your life to challengeing them, and if you were prescient enough to go to law school you may very well prevail. It seems the obvious option is just to cheat someone less powerful than yourself to get your money back. Check out the older women riding the motorized carts in the supermarket, their purses are usually available and you can out run them easy. America is the land of opportunity.


15 posted on 06/28/2007 10:24:28 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: undeniable logic

Do you by any chance remember the name of the person who told you you’d be able to cancel your subscription after the years? I had a problem when I cancelled my Nextel service and had to call and get stubborn with them about not paying for the full month since I had been told on 2 different occasions that I could cancel any day of the month and I would only be charged up to the day I cancelled. They finally relented and gave me partial credit, but I was able to give them name and dates as to when I called.
Regardless, they should have a record of your phone calls to them.


16 posted on 06/28/2007 11:32:57 PM PDT by psjones (u)
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To: undeniable logic
But how can they automatically renew?

Newsmax did the same thing to me with their stupid newsletter. They debited my checking account without my permission. When I complained, they refunded.

17 posted on 06/29/2007 2:05:37 AM PDT by donna (Kick me. I'm a citizen!)
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