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Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (Spoiler Alert!!)
07/11/07 | Dianna

Posted on 07/11/2007 12:44:49 AM PDT by Dianna

Please DO NOT read this thread if you have not seen the movie. Even if you have read this book, topics under discussion can affect what you will expect in the last book.

Several pet theories for the Deathy Hallows have, perhaps, been laid to rest by the release of this movie. A number of plot points I had thought were important to the end of the series were completely left out of Order of the Phoenix.

1. There is absolutely NO reference to the cleaning of Grimmauld Place. Thus, any speculation about the locket horcrux being hoarded by Kreacher must be false.

2. The prophecy was never heard in full. The portion of the prophecy which could have referred to Neville instead of Harry was omitted.

3. There was no mention of Percy's estrangement from his family. Percy was shown at Fudge's side at important points, but unless his face was remembered from previous movies, people not reading the book may not have caught that.

There were two plot changes which puzzled me. Cho was the one who gave Dumbledore's Army away, not the unimportant character of Marietta. Also, Sirius, before he falls through the veil calls Harry, "James". I assume these changes have a point, but I don't know what.

There was also no reference to Hermione and Ron being Prefects. There was no Quidditch at all, so Ron would not be on the team.


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KEYWORDS: harrypotter; orderofthephoenix
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So, FReepers, what do you think? Are you changing your theories for Deathly Hallows? Do you suppose the plot changes are important and that the movies will now diverge from the books?
1 posted on 07/11/2007 12:44:51 AM PDT by Dianna
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To: Dianna

Ooops, I forgot one:

4. There is no reference to Aunt Petunia knowing about dementors. There was no howler to her which said, “Remember my last”.


2 posted on 07/11/2007 12:56:01 AM PDT by Dianna
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To: Dianna
Was their any shown connection between Hillary Clinton and the origin of the dementors?
3 posted on 07/11/2007 1:04:59 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
Yes Inspector Gadget I believe your on to something.
4 posted on 07/11/2007 1:07:01 AM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: Dianna

Well I’m sure glad that’s settled.


5 posted on 07/11/2007 1:11:47 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: A CA Guy

No connection whatsoever.
The Dementors have a real job.


6 posted on 07/11/2007 1:29:37 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Satisfaction was my sin)
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To: RandallFlagg
The Dementors have a real job.

Eating the souls that wizards refuse to eat?

7 posted on 07/11/2007 2:21:22 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Dianna
WHO CARES i always wanted to post that like an ass and i found a thread to be one on....
8 posted on 07/11/2007 2:26:54 AM PDT by Global2010 ( Once I went Nanny Goat at the Ocean and then a Rip Tide hit me.)
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To: Dianna

Harry Potter discovers puberty: “Hey, look everyone! It’s a magic wand!”


9 posted on 07/11/2007 4:39:55 AM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus ("Eat yer groatcakes, Porgy!" "Heavy on the thirty weight, Mom!")
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To: Dianna

10 posted on 07/11/2007 4:56:01 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: Dianna
One question I have regarding the movies is whether JK Rowling has approved the scripts and the changes from the books. If so, then the details that are omitted or changed in the movies must not be crucial to the last book; if not, then I wonder how the last couple of movies will be able to get to the conclusion of the stories if important details have been changed in previous movies.

For example, the fourth movie, the Goblet of Fire, is completely devoid of the house elves and Hermione's SPEW efforts. Instead of Dobby giving Harry the Gilley-weed, Neville gives it to him. Maybe the house elves aren't going to play much of a role in the final book.

11 posted on 07/11/2007 5:07:40 AM PDT by Blue Eyes (Praying for a miracle.)
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To: Blue Eyes; Dianna
One question I have regarding the movies is whether JK Rowling has approved the scripts and the changes from the books.

According to the fan sites like The Leaky Cauldron and Mugglenet, she is consulted however, the directors/producers/script writers can choose whether or not to accept her suggestions.

One example: For this movie the script writers had originally written “one character” completely out of the movie. JK Rowling told them that while it ultimately was there choice to write out “this particular” character, they would have a difficult time explaining certain events in the final movie.

Since I have not yet seen this movie, I cannot venture a guess as to which “one character” they might be referring to.

12 posted on 07/11/2007 5:21:08 AM PDT by cuz_it_aint_their_money (Fred Thompson & Duncan Hunter in '08)
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To: cuz_it_aint_their_money
... JK Rowling told them that while it ultimately was there choice to write out “this particular” character, they would have a difficult time explaining certain events in the final movie.

This is known as a 'clue' ...

13 posted on 07/11/2007 5:25:43 AM PDT by dread78645 (Evolution. A doomed theory since 1859.)
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To: retrokitten

Potter ping!


14 posted on 07/11/2007 5:29:16 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: Dianna

If there’s no quidditch in “Half-Blood Prince” either (as Dan Radcliffe has said in an interview) how do Harry and Ginny get together?


15 posted on 07/11/2007 5:31:20 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: CholeraJoe
It was obvious Ginny was slightly jealous of Harry and Cho, and that Ginny was a better wizard than the rest, which Harry respected.

Sirius obviously called Harry "James" as a Freudiam slip because he missed James and saw him in Harry as they fought together.

I didn't like the movie very much, but my daughter loved it and judging from the reviews it will be a big hit.

They put Kreacher in it but he didn't do anything other than reveal his character.

The one thing they did right was rehabilitate Dumbledore into a grand wizard, after making him a total nuisance in the last film.

16 posted on 07/11/2007 5:45:43 AM PDT by Williams
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To: Williams
I'm going tonight to the IMAX version. The midnight show last night was sold out and I had to work today.

Ginny is a very skilled witch evidenced by how JKR describes her in the book. At age 6 she started taking her brothers' brooms out for flying lessons. By her second year, she could conjure a singing Get Well Card for Harry. Somewhere between her third and fourth years, she learned the Bat-bogey hex, striking fear into Fred and George. At least in the movie, she seemed to have little trouble conjuring a patronus.

17 posted on 07/11/2007 5:56:24 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: Dianna

Does Sirius specifically call Harry “James”, or is he calling to Harry’s father?


18 posted on 07/11/2007 5:57:51 AM PDT by Xenalyte (Lord, I apologize . . . and be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea amen.)
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To: Blue Eyes

“One question I have regarding the movies is whether JK Rowling has approved the scripts and the changes from the books.”

Here Ms. Rowling. Here’s the check, now you be on your way.


19 posted on 07/11/2007 6:01:07 AM PDT by toddlintown (Six bullets and Lennon goes down. Yet not one hit Yoko. Discuss.)
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To: Xenalyte

He’s speaking to harry complimenting him.


20 posted on 07/11/2007 6:05:05 AM PDT by Williams
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To: Williams
The one thing they did right was rehabilitate Dumbledore into a grand wizard, after making him a total nuisance in the last film.

Is Gambon still doing his "angry Dumbledore" routine?

21 posted on 07/11/2007 6:06:32 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Williams

Comparing him favorably to James, sounds like?


22 posted on 07/11/2007 6:08:32 AM PDT by Xenalyte (Lord, I apologize . . . and be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea amen.)
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To: Dianna

Okay, here’s the big question: in terms of sheer movie goodness, how does this one rank against the previous?


23 posted on 07/11/2007 6:09:12 AM PDT by Xenalyte (Lord, I apologize . . . and be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea amen.)
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To: Dianna
So, FReepers, what do you think? Are you changing your theories for Deathly Hallows?

No. Mine are solid, backed both by the books themselves and by the literary traditions that Rowling draws from. They completely explain all of the clues and loose ends.

Which means, of course, that I'm 99.9% likely to be completely and utterly wrong.

24 posted on 07/11/2007 6:11:58 AM PDT by kevkrom ("Government is too important to leave up to the government" - Fred Dalton Thompson)
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To: abner; altura; Androcles; andyssister; Bigs from the North; Blue Eyes; Caipirabob; ccmovrwc; ...
WARNING! CONTAINS SPOILERS!

Order of the Phoenix Ping!

25 posted on 07/11/2007 6:14:23 AM PDT by retrokitten (I love caffeine)
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To: kevkrom
Which means, of course, that I'm 99.9% likely to be completely and utterly wrong.

LMAO!

26 posted on 07/11/2007 6:17:57 AM PDT by retrokitten (I love caffeine)
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To: Williams; Blue Eyes; Dianna; cuz_it_aint_their_money
They put Kreacher in it but he didn't do anything other than reveal his character.

According to the USAToday article yesterday, Kreacher is the character that J.K. Rowling said to put back in. He obviously plays a role in the last book.

27 posted on 07/11/2007 6:25:45 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.com / Script Frenzy 2007 - WINNER!!!)
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To: retrokitten

Hey I stumbled across this today....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_Dark_wizards_in_Harry_Potter

It is really informative and there are links to a J.K Rowling interview and other links to characters from all the books. There may be some spoilers in there so be careful. ;)


28 posted on 07/11/2007 6:28:44 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: EmilyGeiger

Wow that’s really interesting! I’m still going through it all. Thanks for the link!


29 posted on 07/11/2007 6:32:42 AM PDT by retrokitten (I love caffeine)
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To: EmilyGeiger
There is some really interesting info in there! This bit about Grindelwald:

Grindelwald was a Dark wizard before Lord Voldemort and his only mention is in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone on Albus Dumbledore's Chocolate Frog card which notes that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945.

Rowling apparently once claimed that there was a connection between Grindelwald and Adolf Hitler (hence the 1945 date of defeat); she has stated that she likes to imagine a connection between the wizarding world and the real one.[2]

Grindelwald has something to do with the remaining plot. [3].

Grindelwald is a Germanic name: Wald means "Forest", and Grindelwald is a ski resort in Switzerland. The name Grindelwald also bears a resemblance to the mythic Grendel who was defeated by Beowulf. It is worth noting that one of Dumbledore's middle names is Wulfric - close to Beowulf. Given Rowling's penchant for clever naming, it is likely that this was intended.

30 posted on 07/11/2007 6:35:52 AM PDT by retrokitten (I love caffeine)
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To: Dianna
Honestly, grown ups going to midnight showings of a kid’s movie. You folks need to get a life. Now if you will excuse, I need to get back to my reading.... of GoF.... for the sixth time... :)
31 posted on 07/11/2007 6:36:09 AM PDT by WV Mountain Mama (Gryffindor '88 Arthur Weasley will be named the Minister of Magic...)
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To: retrokitten
Thanks for the Ping

But I'm not going to readt this thread until I've seen the movie. (which is hopefully this Saturday)

32 posted on 07/11/2007 6:42:46 AM PDT by Pippin
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To: retrokitten

I think it is good to read the books again after movies because JKR always says that the info to figure out the ending is in the movies, it sorts out lots of filler and clues that really aren’t clues from the books.

I am getting disgruntled that my friend that I always go to movies with hasn’t gotten back to me as to when we can see this film. Although, I am not really sure I want to see it when it is packed with kids either....

That is interesting about Grindelwald...


33 posted on 07/11/2007 6:44:02 AM PDT by WV Mountain Mama (Gryffindor '88 Arthur Weasley will be named the Minister of Magic...)
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To: The KG9 Kid
Well I’m sure glad that’s settled.

Seriously. Now can we go on to discussing what Nicole Richie will be wearing when she is sentenced? I mean let's get our priorities straight!!

34 posted on 07/11/2007 6:46:24 AM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: WV Mountain Mama
Although, I am not really sure I want to see it when it is packed with kids either....

I know what you mean. We are going to go early Saturday morning, so I'm hoping it won't be too packed.

35 posted on 07/11/2007 6:47:17 AM PDT by retrokitten (I love caffeine)
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To: Dianna

It would be easy enough to add a flashback scene or just refer to the cleaning of Grimmauld Place at the appropriate time. They could also skip the cleaning entirely and just have Mundungus or Kreacher steal it directly.


36 posted on 07/11/2007 6:53:24 AM PDT by Politicalmom (Nearly 1% of illegals are in prison for felonies. Less than 1/10 of 1% of the legal population is.)
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To: retrokitten
There is alot of Nazi dogma and imagery in Voldemort and the Death Eaters. The Dark Mark aerial symbol and tattoos could equate to swastikas. Certainly the pure blood mania and their hatred for mudbloods. (mud races is a term used by neo-Nazis for Jews, blacks, and Hispanics.) The Death Eaters are a surrogate for the SS. Even the fact that Voldemort is a half-blood could relate to the rumor that Hitler's grandfather was a Jew.

Jason Isaacs (Lucius Malfoy) gave an interview pointing out the similarities.

37 posted on 07/11/2007 6:58:51 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: WV Mountain Mama

You’re beating me. I will NEVER make it, I am only halfway through Prisoner, and my guests don’t leave until Saturday night. I guess I get to read Hallows last, since the children aren’t re-reading.


38 posted on 07/11/2007 6:59:23 AM PDT by Politicalmom (Nearly 1% of illegals are in prison for felonies. Less than 1/10 of 1% of the legal population is.)
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To: Politicalmom; WV Mountain Mama

I’m on my seventh reading of the books. I’m up to the hearing chapter in “Order of the Phoenix.”


39 posted on 07/11/2007 7:02:37 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: retrokitten

I thought the part about Grindelwald was very interesting as well, and it amazes me how she comes up with the characters’ names.

Did you find the link to her interview with the guy who started leaky cauldron? It is really worth reading if you don’t mind a few hints about which way the book may be heading. Also there is a link to the characters sorted by the hogwart’s houses. There are a few characters whose names do not have links so they must be being introduced in the 7th book.


40 posted on 07/11/2007 7:05:37 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: Politicalmom

:) I was nervous because we were at the beach all last week and I didn’t take any books (I read SS and CoS before I left), but I knocked out PoA sun-tue evenings and started GoA last night. Honestly, I should really take some notes when I read these books...


41 posted on 07/11/2007 7:05:58 AM PDT by WV Mountain Mama (Gryffindor '88 Arthur Weasley will be named the Minister of Magic...)
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To: WV Mountain Mama

I was going to take notes, but I gave up. I have 11 people in the house, and even with just my own 4, it’s been a hectic summer.


42 posted on 07/11/2007 7:07:22 AM PDT by Politicalmom (Nearly 1% of illegals are in prison for felonies. Less than 1/10 of 1% of the legal population is.)
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To: EmilyGeiger

Oooo...I didn’t see that, but I will go back and check it out!


43 posted on 07/11/2007 7:09:28 AM PDT by retrokitten (I love caffeine)
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To: Dianna; All
I'll be taking my 11-yr old son this afternoon, and have two questions (you can freepmail me):

1. What is the reason for the PG-13 rating?

2. Does the movie include the detention and the writing-instrument-from-hell?

44 posted on 07/11/2007 7:10:20 AM PDT by Remole
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To: Remole

1. Because of scenes of violence/frightening scenes.

2. Yes, I saw him using the quill on the A&E special the other night.


45 posted on 07/11/2007 7:13:58 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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To: Remole
1. Probably the violence and action. People do die. Beyond an innocent kiss between Harry and Cho, nothing tawdry.

2. That part is included according to reviews.

46 posted on 07/11/2007 7:14:55 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: EmilyGeiger

Emily, what’re your thoughts on my “Death Eaters are Nazis” theory?


47 posted on 07/11/2007 7:16:37 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: CholeraJoe

Guess we can count on the Americans to come in and save the day in book 7 then? ;-)


48 posted on 07/11/2007 7:20:05 AM PDT by retrokitten (I love caffeine)
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To: retrokitten
JKR is very territorial about the Old World. She mentions wizards from France, Belgium and Eastern Europe, even Africa, but never North or South America. Cho is Asian, as are the Patil sisters. No Jose Gonzalez from Mexico or Jenny MacKenzie from Alberta.

After Chris Columbus cast his daughter and niece in the first two movies, she's forbidden non-British actors.

49 posted on 07/11/2007 7:31:57 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger?")
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To: CholeraJoe

I definately agree with it, in fact when death eaters were first introduced I thought they were like the KKK because of the hoods, etc. I think Rowling combined the 2 because they are what are considered “evil” and like you pointed out they both are fixated on a pure race, no mixing of the races. I also consider the fact that Fudge was theoretically Chamberlain and Dumbledore was Churchhill. In OOtP Fudge’s administration made me think of the Clintons admin. in how they denied and covered up any acts of “terrorism” so that the public wouldn’t lose faith in the gov’t.

I noticed that Rowling is coming out with a children’s book about politics(possibly by next summer). I’m anxious to see her thought process. Hopefully she won’t disappoint me. ;)


50 posted on 07/11/2007 7:32:14 AM PDT by EmilyGeiger
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