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To: Duke Nukum
And of course, materialism is metaphysics not a scientific fact so what’s wrong with challenging it?

You are close, but still a little off.

Naturalism is an assumption that science makes. It amounts to an approach whereby scientists will deal with things that can be perceived, and leaves the supernatural (that which can't be perceived) to other disciplines. Is there anything wrong with that?

And what if there is a supernatural, that can't be perceived by science? Well, that's for theology and other related disciplines to deal with. What's wrong with that?

The problem we are having is that the Discovery Institute has embarked on a program of trying to push religion (in the guise of ID) into science classes because the earlier version of religious belief, creation "science," was prohibited by the US Supreme Court.

This is the problem I have with ID. Its not science, its thinly disguised religious belief pretending to be science and pushed by a large PR budget.

23 posted on 07/16/2007 8:06:36 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
This is the problem I have with ID. Its not science, its thinly disguised religious belief pretending to be science and pushed by a large PR budget.

I know, but what doesn't pretend to be science these days? I've always found the scientific belief that consciousness is an epiphenomena of matter to be untenable. Stupid even.

They cannot explain something so they marginalize it. But if this were the case, nothing would have any meaning whatsoever. My typing here would not be directed by my mind but is some eddy in the material sea that whirls this way and then next it whirls the other way.

It is like a poster covering a wall but when the poster is removed, there is no wall. So, what was holding the poster up? Well obviously the poster is an epiphenomena of the wall. But there's no wall under the poster. Well, that's because you took the poster down.

Once again it's not a fact that consciousness is an epiphenomena of matter. It's not even a belief. It's just the high priests of science insisting it is so. No real or serious or joyful person could believe such nonsense and yet it is forced on us as something that is real.

I don't see how having a little religion snuck in between the science could hurt things more then science has already hurt itself by trying to pass off stupidity as wisdom.

24 posted on 07/16/2007 8:32:50 PM PDT by Duke Nukum (Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space, but any objections.)
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