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Researchers re-identify Titanic child
Yahoo News ^ | august 6 2007 | DancesWithCats

Posted on 08/05/2007 7:38:26 PM PDT by DancesWithCats

Wed Aug 1, 7:54 PM

OTTAWA (AFP) - Canadian researchers on Wednesday said they positively identified the remains of a young child who died when the RMS Titanic sank in 1912. (Advertisement)

The remains belong to a 19-month-old English boy named Sidney Leslie Goodwin who died with his family as they were setting out for a new life in Niagara Falls, New York, researchers said.

Goodwin's body was found floating in the waters of the North Atlantic six days after the luxury liner sank on April 15,9 1912, killing 1,503 passengers and crew.

Many of the Titanic victims are buried in a cemetery in Halifax, on Canada's eastern coast.

In 2002 researchers mistakenly identified the baby as 13-month-old Eino Viljami Panula, who they said was traveling in third class to the United States with his mother and four brothers when they all perished.

His DNA matched to living family members in Finland who traveled to his grave dedicated to "the unknown child" in Halifax for an elaborate ceremony.

"There was a lot of confusion because we thought we had it right, but more information came to light and we did more research," said Ryan Parr, lead researcher in the case at Lakehead University in Ontario.

"Now it looks like it is the Goodwin child."Based on the size of the child's teeth, scientists had been able to narrow the possible candidates to children about one year old, or younger.

"Based on the (original) DNA testing, it had to be either the Goodwin child or the Panula child and so we said, 'Okay it must be the (younger) Panula child,'" Parr said.

Later, a pair of shoes showed up that had been found on the child's body, causing the scientists to doubt their original conclusions.

(Excerpt) Read more at ca.news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: boy; dna; godsgravesglyphs; identified; mtdna; sciencemarcheson; titanic; victim
Wow. Science is most amazing and especially the findings which are utilized more and more today with DNA. How sad for this family and for the Finnish family who have thought for years that this was someone belonging to them. What a shock this must have been, for both families. Tragic.
1 posted on 08/05/2007 7:38:33 PM PDT by DancesWithCats
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
"Either English or Italian, according to the DNA. But hey, we were close." /sarc

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

2 posted on 08/05/2007 8:09:32 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Thursday, August 2, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: DancesWithCats

A hotel I was at in Maine this weekend had the most incredible model of the Titanic on display in the lobby, Very large and detailed. The owner must be a ship nut, there must of been 50 other cool models as well.
I was pretty impressed.


3 posted on 08/05/2007 8:10:45 PM PDT by mowowie
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To: mowowie

Better than stuffed birds, a peep hole through the wall, and a “mother” up in the house.


4 posted on 08/05/2007 8:16:57 PM PDT by A knight without armor
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To: A knight without armor

No deBates there!


5 posted on 08/05/2007 8:25:19 PM PDT by null and void (Whale oil: The carbon neutral, renewable petroleum alternative)
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To: DancesWithCats

“To the unknown child”

What a sad and thought-provoking memorial in Halifax.

Reminiscent, though a mere shadow, of the power of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington. That memorial alone will bring a tear even on thinking of it. The thought of someone, a kin to any of us, giving their life but nobody even knew they died.


6 posted on 08/05/2007 8:27:31 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: null and void
Everything is perfectly Normanal.
7 posted on 08/05/2007 8:29:30 PM PDT by A knight without armor
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To: Ramius

Especially a child. Heart-breaking to think of what their last moments would have been, so terrified and so cold.


8 posted on 08/05/2007 8:45:16 PM PDT by DancesWithCats
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To: DancesWithCats

Makes you question DNA evidence. If they had initially identified this child on the basis of DNA and then changed their minds, the whole process must be doubted. Clearly some measure of interpretation is involved in DNA identification.


9 posted on 08/05/2007 9:20:55 PM PDT by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: DancesWithCats
Further DNA testing found that the child's HVS1, a type of mitochondria DNA molecule, did not match the Panula family...."When we expanded our search, it was still very, very close, but it looks more like it is the Goodwin child." (Ryan Parr, lead researcher in the case at Lakehead University in Ontario.)

His (Panula child) DNA matched to living family members in Finland who traveled to his grave dedicated to "the unknown child" in Halifax for an elaborate ceremony.

Ping me when Ryan Parr & Lakehead University reimburse the Panula family for the travel expense, misc. expense associated with the trip and $500K or so emotional suffering claims because of their shoddy work & rush to Make News.

10 posted on 08/06/2007 2:05:22 AM PDT by elli1
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To: A knight without armor

:)


11 posted on 08/06/2007 7:19:07 AM PDT by mowowie
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To: Fairview
Makes you question DNA evidence.

I'm no where near a DNA expert. But it may be that they did something like an initial 12 marker test. With a 12 marker test you can get tons of matches. But if you upgrade it to a 37 marker you get closer and closer in your ability to make a positive identification of a relationship.---No interpretation, just more tests to narrow things down.

12 posted on 08/06/2007 10:26:16 AM PDT by Jessarah
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To: DancesWithCats
I read last year that the last Titanic survivor who was old enough to have memories of the sinking, died. The woman had been five years old at the time of the sinking, and she was put into a lifeboat (I believe with her Mother), but her Father and twin brother stayed behind and did not survive.

As of last year, there were only two or three survivors, and all had been babes in arms, infants, in 1912.

13 posted on 08/06/2007 9:11:06 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Jessarah

Well then I wonder ... how many markers did they test for? And is there a higher number than 37?


14 posted on 08/07/2007 6:36:53 PM PDT by DancesWithCats
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To: DancesWithCats

Right now you can have a 67 marker test done. Just a few years ago it was was 12. Then it was 25, then 37. Now 67. It seems like every few years they are able to narrow it down even further.


15 posted on 08/07/2007 9:16:21 PM PDT by Jessarah
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To: Jessarah

It’s amazing. Cost and time I guess as to why you would have anything less than the 67 done?


16 posted on 08/07/2007 9:44:25 PM PDT by DancesWithCats
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To: DancesWithCats
Yes, the higher you go in #'s, the more expensive. However, in the above mentioned case, it may have been that only a 12 or 25 marker test was available at the time of the initial test. When the article says "Many Europeans have DNA sequences that are very, very close, if not the same. that is the case with the 12 marker. My cousin initially did the 12 marker and got almost 500 exact matches, and it grows every day. However, the list gets more and more narrow as you upgrade to a higher test that looks for more markers.

In genealogy research, however, a person may not want to go up to a 67 marker test if they are trying to see if they're related to someone who had a common ancestor with them several hundred years ago. A 67 marker test takes you closer to the present time period, and that wouldn't be needed if you're looking at a common ancestor back in the 1700's or so. Yes, you could do the 67 marker test, but in that case, all those extra markers wouldn't be needed.

I don't know if I explained this very well, as I've just started learning about it 3 months ago. I'm finding it very interesting!

17 posted on 08/08/2007 7:39:13 AM PDT by Jessarah
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To: Jessarah

It’s fascinating! I had no idea. When people or the news say ‘DNA testing was done’ that’s the extent of the information and it’s really so totally inadequate. It’s just half the story, isn’t it? Why did your cousin have DNA testing done, if I may ask? Where are you learning all these wonderful details? Are you doing a geneology search? My brother has paid a professional genologist investigator and it was well worth the money. The results that he got were incredible, down to actual copies of a journal that my great, great grandfather had written in his own hand about his Civil War experiences! We would have never found that on our own. Incredible.


18 posted on 08/08/2007 9:33:47 AM PDT by DancesWithCats
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To: DancesWithCats
What a treasure you have in that journal!

My cousin had the DNA testing done because our g-g-grandfather was an illegitimate child. This left us unable to research any further back on the male side of our family. Family lore told us his father was a certain surname. However, when the results were in, it was something completely different. He was a 36/37 match with another surname, and the family lived in the same county (maybe even township)as our ancestor, so there really is no doubt. This "new" family of ours that we didn't know existed until 2 months ago, has quite a documented history so we are learning a lot! We still don't know who exactly the father was, but we do know about his family.

All our testing was done through Familytreedna.com

19 posted on 08/08/2007 8:52:02 PM PDT by Jessarah
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To: Jessarah

Family lore ... ROFLOL! What a joke that has turned out to be! My mom sent off for her birth certificate for something or another and her mother’s name came back as someone we don’t know WHO the heck she is! LOL LOL We’re still trying to sort it all out. sigh ... family lore ... very UNhelpful ... but it’s all fascinating, isn’t it? I mean, once you start down that path, you get addicted to ferreting it all out.


20 posted on 08/08/2007 9:02:27 PM PDT by DancesWithCats
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To: DancesWithCats

Actually, I’ve found that family lore is VERY helpful. There is often a lot of unfactual information there, but usually a grain of truth. And it’s an excellent place to begin research.


21 posted on 08/09/2007 7:13:44 AM PDT by twigs
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To: DancesWithCats; twigs
Family lore is a good starting point, but it's sometimes hard to find that grain of truth. That's why documentation is so important. However, that can be hard to come by!


DancesWithCats, is it possible your mom was adopted?

22 posted on 08/09/2007 11:31:16 AM PDT by Jessarah
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