Skip to comments.Researchers re-identify Titanic child
Posted on 08/05/2007 7:38:26 PM PDT by DancesWithCats
Wed Aug 1, 7:54 PM
OTTAWA (AFP) - Canadian researchers on Wednesday said they positively identified the remains of a young child who died when the RMS Titanic sank in 1912. (Advertisement)
The remains belong to a 19-month-old English boy named Sidney Leslie Goodwin who died with his family as they were setting out for a new life in Niagara Falls, New York, researchers said.
Goodwin's body was found floating in the waters of the North Atlantic six days after the luxury liner sank on April 15,9 1912, killing 1,503 passengers and crew.
Many of the Titanic victims are buried in a cemetery in Halifax, on Canada's eastern coast.
In 2002 researchers mistakenly identified the baby as 13-month-old Eino Viljami Panula, who they said was traveling in third class to the United States with his mother and four brothers when they all perished.
His DNA matched to living family members in Finland who traveled to his grave dedicated to "the unknown child" in Halifax for an elaborate ceremony.
"There was a lot of confusion because we thought we had it right, but more information came to light and we did more research," said Ryan Parr, lead researcher in the case at Lakehead University in Ontario.
"Now it looks like it is the Goodwin child."Based on the size of the child's teeth, scientists had been able to narrow the possible candidates to children about one year old, or younger.
"Based on the (original) DNA testing, it had to be either the Goodwin child or the Panula child and so we said, 'Okay it must be the (younger) Panula child,'" Parr said.
Later, a pair of shoes showed up that had been found on the child's body, causing the scientists to doubt their original conclusions.
(Excerpt) Read more at ca.news.yahoo.com ...
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)
A hotel I was at in Maine this weekend had the most incredible model of the Titanic on display in the lobby, Very large and detailed. The owner must be a ship nut, there must of been 50 other cool models as well.
I was pretty impressed.
Better than stuffed birds, a peep hole through the wall, and a “mother” up in the house.
No deBates there!
“To the unknown child”
What a sad and thought-provoking memorial in Halifax.
Reminiscent, though a mere shadow, of the power of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington. That memorial alone will bring a tear even on thinking of it. The thought of someone, a kin to any of us, giving their life but nobody even knew they died.
Especially a child. Heart-breaking to think of what their last moments would have been, so terrified and so cold.
Makes you question DNA evidence. If they had initially identified this child on the basis of DNA and then changed their minds, the whole process must be doubted. Clearly some measure of interpretation is involved in DNA identification.
His (Panula child) DNA matched to living family members in Finland who traveled to his grave dedicated to "the unknown child" in Halifax for an elaborate ceremony.
Ping me when Ryan Parr & Lakehead University reimburse the Panula family for the travel expense, misc. expense associated with the trip and $500K or so emotional suffering claims because of their shoddy work & rush to Make News.
I'm no where near a DNA expert. But it may be that they did something like an initial 12 marker test. With a 12 marker test you can get tons of matches. But if you upgrade it to a 37 marker you get closer and closer in your ability to make a positive identification of a relationship.---No interpretation, just more tests to narrow things down.
As of last year, there were only two or three survivors, and all had been babes in arms, infants, in 1912.
Well then I wonder ... how many markers did they test for? And is there a higher number than 37?
Right now you can have a 67 marker test done. Just a few years ago it was was 12. Then it was 25, then 37. Now 67. It seems like every few years they are able to narrow it down even further.
It’s amazing. Cost and time I guess as to why you would have anything less than the 67 done?
In genealogy research, however, a person may not want to go up to a 67 marker test if they are trying to see if they're related to someone who had a common ancestor with them several hundred years ago. A 67 marker test takes you closer to the present time period, and that wouldn't be needed if you're looking at a common ancestor back in the 1700's or so. Yes, you could do the 67 marker test, but in that case, all those extra markers wouldn't be needed.
I don't know if I explained this very well, as I've just started learning about it 3 months ago. I'm finding it very interesting!
It’s fascinating! I had no idea. When people or the news say ‘DNA testing was done’ that’s the extent of the information and it’s really so totally inadequate. It’s just half the story, isn’t it? Why did your cousin have DNA testing done, if I may ask? Where are you learning all these wonderful details? Are you doing a geneology search? My brother has paid a professional genologist investigator and it was well worth the money. The results that he got were incredible, down to actual copies of a journal that my great, great grandfather had written in his own hand about his Civil War experiences! We would have never found that on our own. Incredible.
My cousin had the DNA testing done because our g-g-grandfather was an illegitimate child. This left us unable to research any further back on the male side of our family. Family lore told us his father was a certain surname. However, when the results were in, it was something completely different. He was a 36/37 match with another surname, and the family lived in the same county (maybe even township)as our ancestor, so there really is no doubt. This "new" family of ours that we didn't know existed until 2 months ago, has quite a documented history so we are learning a lot! We still don't know who exactly the father was, but we do know about his family.
All our testing was done through Familytreedna.com
Family lore ... ROFLOL! What a joke that has turned out to be! My mom sent off for her birth certificate for something or another and her mother’s name came back as someone we don’t know WHO the heck she is! LOL LOL We’re still trying to sort it all out. sigh ... family lore ... very UNhelpful ... but it’s all fascinating, isn’t it? I mean, once you start down that path, you get addicted to ferreting it all out.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.