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Ted Nugent's Marine Claim
FOX News Channel/The O'Reilly Factor

Posted on 08/30/2007 9:39:57 PM PDT by GunnyBob

Last night on TOF on FNC, Ted Nugent claimed he was a Marine. I can find no evidence to support this but I could be missing something.

Someone want to help me out here?

--Gunny Bob


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KEYWORDS: marines
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1 posted on 08/30/2007 9:39:57 PM PDT by GunnyBob
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To: GunnyBob

The reference to it I’ve seen is awful, so I’m hoping someone else has a different reference.


2 posted on 08/30/2007 9:40:58 PM PDT by Dahoser (America's great untapped alternative energy source: The Founding Fathers spinning in their graves.)
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To: GunnyBob

I have never heard him make this claim but if he’s posing then he’s toast in my book.


3 posted on 08/30/2007 9:41:56 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: GunnyBob

Google it. The quote I saw was where he said something about what “the Marine Corps taught me.” He was probably referencing something he learned from the Marines during a benefit event of some kind.


4 posted on 08/30/2007 9:44:30 PM PDT by flying Elvis ("In...War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst" Clausewitz.)
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To: Texas_Jarhead

C’mon - - no way does Ted make a crazy, easily refutable claim that he was a Marine unless he was one.


5 posted on 08/30/2007 9:46:25 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: GunnyBob

Here’tis. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295157,00.html
(For some reason they accidently label him as Nelson in this response.)

KASICH: Well, Ted, I know rock ‘n’ roll. You know that I know rock ‘n’ roll. But frankly, I mean, that was, like, such a crude thing. You know, like some kind of fourth grade stuff, like you know, these things you said were — they just weren’t right.

I mean, why — did you ever think these people — what about Obama’s kid hearing that? What do we tell him? “Well, it’s just rock ‘n’ roll?”

NELSON: I don’t know. What do you tell the children of soldiers who have sacrificed their lives when Obama claims that their daddies are raiding innocent civilians over there?

Come on, John. Let’s get our priorities straight. With all due respect, unless you’ve been to a Ted Nugent concert lately, you don’t know the intensity.

By the way, we’re selling out every concert on this “Love Grenade” tour. And I do exactly what the good Marine Corps taught me every night. And I do PG-13 concerts for the state fairs and the county fairs and all these different family events that I’ve been selling out. Because I want to make sure I do the right thing.

An outrageous, over the top rock ‘n’ roll event like the House of Blues, John, as long as no laws are broken and no one gets hurt. Nothing is sacred.


6 posted on 08/30/2007 9:49:19 PM PDT by flying Elvis ("In...War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst" Clausewitz.)
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To: flying Elvis

“By the way, we’re selling out every concert on this “Love Grenade” tour. And I do exactly what the good Marine Corps taught me every night.”

Maybe I am reading something into this, but this sure sounds like a claim to have been a Marine.

Also, does anyone know if the 1990 Detroit Free Press article/interview with Nugent is for real, i.e., where he claims to have soiled himself for a week and done other nasty deeds to flunk his physical? I have a copy of the supposed physical results that show he flunked.


7 posted on 08/30/2007 9:49:26 PM PDT by GunnyBob
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To: GunnyBob

I don’t blame you for being vigilant about frauds when it comes to the Marine Corps - - there’s nothing I hate worse than a Dan Rather “Marine” - - but it’s only the nobodies who think they can get away with it.

Your worry about Nugent is over the top. He’s a smart man.

Semper Fidelis,
LH


8 posted on 08/30/2007 9:55:14 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: GunnyBob

I don’t have a final opinion. I just present this article as a starting point for research.

http://arts.independent.co.uk/music/features/article571538.ece

>>In Iraq, he says, he was allowed the opportunity to man automatic weapons. “Our failure,” he tells me, “has been not to Nagasaki them.”

“Is that opinion shared by your friends in the Republican Party?”

“Most of them feel that way.”<<

>>His father Warren was a drill sergeant who went on to become a steel executive. Ted has an older brother Jeff who is “a great guy - he served in the United States Army”. The musician pronounces this last phrase as though it’s the highest praise imaginable. “As a boy,” he adds, “I was inundated with discipline.”<<

>>In the late 1960s he lived with the MC5, a group which was the prototype, musically and pharmaceutically, for acts including Iggy Pop, The Clash and The Sex Pistols. “I shared a house with those dope fiends. I was moved by their music.”

“In February 1977, People magazine reported you as saying that you’d smoked ‘50 joints in the 1960s’ and tried ‘two lines of cocaine’.” “What I actually said to People was that on an average night at the MC5 house I’d turn down 50 joints and refuse cocaine.”<<

>>He has the rage, but he doesn’t have the war record. At 18, he was called up to serve in Vietnam. “In 1977 you gave an interview to High Times [the cannabis user’s journal of record] where you claimed you defecated in your clothes to avoid the draft.”

(”I got 30 days’ notice of the physical,” Nugent told them. “I ceased cleansing my body. Two weeks before the test I stopped eating food with nutritional value. A week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. My pants got crusted up.”)

“I never shit my pants to get out of the draft,” says Nugent, good-naturedly.<<


9 posted on 08/30/2007 9:56:12 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: GunnyBob
He didn't say he was one.

The USMC taught me a lot, too, though I was never a Marine (entry level seperation and all).

10 posted on 08/30/2007 10:00:47 PM PDT by mbraynard (FDT: Less Leadership Experience than any president in US history)
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To: GunnyBob

it sounds like something intended to make people who weren’t listening very hard think he was a Marine, but gives him wiggle room if he gets called on it. Maybe I’m just cynical.


11 posted on 08/30/2007 10:01:32 PM PDT by kms61
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To: GunnyBob
Also, does anyone know if the 1990 Detroit Free Press article/interview with Nugent is for real, i.e., where he claims to have soiled himself for a week and done other nasty deeds to flunk his physical? I have a copy of the supposed physical results that show he flunked.

I heard the same thing 20-30 years ago. If true, I'm sure it will be big time regurgitated news. That rumor has always bothered me about Ted. I'd like to finally find out if it is true.

12 posted on 08/30/2007 10:01:42 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat lead.)
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To: GunnyBob
Here’s a bio:

http://www.starpulse.com/Music/Nugent,_Ted/Biography/

Nothing in there indicates he’s a veteran, and there don’t really appear to be gaps in his career where he could have served. Just more of the same old Nugent bullshit.

13 posted on 08/30/2007 10:02:16 PM PDT by stormer
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To: mbraynard

the question is, was it ambiguously phrased so as to deceive people into thinking he was a Marine. I guess it’s a matter of interpretation. It sounds suspicious to me, but as I said in another post, I’m a cynic.


14 posted on 08/30/2007 10:03:52 PM PDT by kms61
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To: GunnyBob

Some people sometimes don’t say what they actually mean!

I think he meant that the Marines have taught him to be tough every night!!


15 posted on 08/30/2007 10:04:11 PM PDT by Anita1 (Duncan Hunter for President in '08!! / Pro-life / Pro-border / Anti-outsourcing / Strong Defense!))
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To: GunnyBob
"...where he claims to have soiled himself for a week and done other nasty deeds to flunk his physical?"

That does seem rather extreme to me Gunny. It does remind me of one of the guys at my draft physical who put a glass eye in his butt to be a wise guy.

16 posted on 08/30/2007 10:06:08 PM PDT by VR-21
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To: GunnyBob
I don't believe you.

No Marine ever makes an occasional claim of being a Marine: they are eaten up with it. Like you, for instance....

17 posted on 08/30/2007 10:06:44 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (Gen X: I'll be the 'Junior Guy' until I'm 70.)
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To: GunnyBob
He never said he was one.

But he's spent a lot of time with them done a lot to support them.

18 posted on 08/30/2007 10:08:42 PM PDT by ConservativeofColor
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To: GunnyBob

In looking for marine stuff. I found this video from earlier this month.

He’s pretty nutty for somebody running for governor.

>>I was in Chicago last week I said, “Hey Obama, you might want to suck on one of these, you punk?” Obama, he’s a piece of shit and I told him to suck on one of my machine guns. Let’s hear it for them. I was in New York and I said, “Hey Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset you worthless bitch.” Since I’m in California, I’m gonna find Barbara Boxer she might wanna suck on my machine guns. Hey, Dianne Feinstein, ride one of these you worthless whore.<<

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=757_1187963465&p=1


19 posted on 08/30/2007 10:09:13 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: GunnyBob

Can’t we all learn something from the US Marines?

Values: (excerpt from Warrior Culture of the U.S. Marines, copyright 2001 Marion F. Sturkey)

Why are U.S. Marines considered the world’s premier warriors? Why? What puts the Marine Corps above the rest? Other military services have rigorous training and weapons of equal or greater lethality. So, why do U.S. Marines stand head and shoulders above the crowd?

The truth lies in the individual Marine. He (or she) did not join the Marines. Roughly 40,000 try each year. Those who survive the crucible of Marine basic training have been sculpted in mind and body. They have become Marines.

Once he has earned the title and entered the Brotherhood of Marines, a new warrior must draw upon the legacy of his Corps. Therein lies his strength. In return, the strength of the Corps lies in the individual Marine. The character (often defined as “what you are in the dark”) of these warriors is defined by the three constant Corps Values: honor, courage, and commitment.

Honor: Honor requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct. Honor is many things; honor requires many things. A U.S. Marine must never lie, never cheat, never steal, but that is not enough. Much more is required. Each Marine must cling to an uncompromising code of personal integrity, accountable for his actions and holding others accountable for theirs. And, above all, honor mandates that a Marine never sully the reputation of his Corps.

Courage: Simply stated, courage is honor in action — and more. Courage is moral strength, the will to heed the inner voice of conscience, the will to do what is right regardless of the conduct of others. It is mental discipline, an adherence to a higher standard. Courage means willingness to take a stand for what is right in spite of adverse consequences. This courage, throughout the history of the Corps, has sustained Marines during the chaos, perils, and hardships of combat. And each day, it enables each Marine to look in the mirror — and smile.

Commitment: Total dedication to Corps and Country. Gung-ho Marine teamwork. All for one, one for all. By whatever name or cliche, commitment is a combination of (1) selfless determination and (2) a relentless dedication to excellence. Marines never give up, never give in, never willingly accept second best. Excellence is always the goal. And, when their active duty days are over, Marines remain reserve Marines, retired Marines, or Marine veterans. There is no such thing as an ex-Marine or former-Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Commitment never dies.

The three Corps Values: honor, courage, commitment. They make up the bedrock of the character of each individual Marine. They are the foundation of his Corps. These three values, handed down from generation to generation, have made U.S. Marines the Warrior Elite. The U.S. Marine Corps: the most respected and revered fighting force on earth.


20 posted on 08/30/2007 10:09:13 PM PDT by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: GunnyBob
"... I do adapt like the good Marine Corps taught me ..." Nugent.

Occurs @ ~ the 2:46 remaining mark of the clip. Nothing on the web indicates that he ever served in any branch. Perhaps his dad was a Marine since his biography states "while his disciplinarian father passed his beliefs down to Nugent."

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?082907/082907_oreilly_nugent&OReilly_Factor&Rock%20%u2018n%20Rant%3F%20&acc&Politics&-1&News&410&&&exp

21 posted on 08/30/2007 10:11:10 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: gondramB

I think he hits the nail on the head, don’t you? If you are going to swing, you go for contact!


22 posted on 08/30/2007 10:12:19 PM PDT by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: GunnyBob; Doomonyou; VR-21

We had the “crapped his pants” thread
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1887384/posts

Then an unspecified “local station” where Ted refutes
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1887742/posts

Unless someone is claiming this quote is fabricated also, I don’t know what else he would be referring to as his “guilt and embarrassment”.

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/nugent%20ive%20made%20up%20for%20missing%20vietnam_31_05_2006

TED NUGENT insists he has paid his dues for avoiding the draft to fight in Vietnam - he spent “a couple of weeks ready to rock” with a giant machine gun in Afghanistan two years ago (04). The Republican rocker feels awful about avoiding the army in the late 1960s and early 1970s, but he believes he has more than made up for it. He says, “Do I feel guilt and embarrassment? Yes. “I wish I’d understood how important America’s fight against our enemies was. “But did I go to Fallujah two years ago? Damn right I did. “And was I in Afghanistan, manning a 50-calibre machine gun in a Chinook, ready to rock? Yes. “Was I there for years? No, a couple of weeks. But I am not a coward.”


23 posted on 08/30/2007 10:15:00 PM PDT by james500
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To: GunnyBob

My Marine Corps taught me a lot too!

Breath Release Aim Sight Squeeze, ugh, um,, 12th military order and no farting in the LP! that’s it for memory lane for the moment! (I’m old, stay tuned) :-)

Semper Fi


24 posted on 08/30/2007 10:16:47 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: mbraynard

His father was a drill sergeant. He probably didn’t bring his son up soft.


25 posted on 08/30/2007 10:18:40 PM PDT by weegee (NO THIRD TERM. America does not need another unconstitutional Clinton co-presidency.)
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To: GunnyBob

I’ve just listened through the mandatory commercial to see the whole Fox interview. He says he learned from the Marines - that’s not enough to say he falsely claimed to be a Marine.

He makes the point that this is stage outrage - and that Alice Cooper didn’t really cut his head off with a guillotine and that Mick Jagger didn’t have to explain when he rode a 40 foot inflatable penis.

I don’t see a problem here other than his stage show is getting a lot of press and its pretty outrageous. That will turn off some people.


26 posted on 08/30/2007 10:18:50 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: Lancey Howard

I don’t think he would either. Nugent is a gun nut, he loves guns, he feels badly for avoiding the draft and because of that wants to do all he can for our military. He and Toby Keith were in Fallujah with the 1st Marines, he admires them and was just trying to throw them some props. When he says, “what the Marines taught me”, I believe that is all he was doing was giving a shout out to the 1st. For him to admit he was a draft dodger and felt guilty about it in an interview and then intentionally make such a claim would be beyond stupid. Nugent is crazy, but he isn’t stupid. :)

I would say this has more to do with what he called Obama and Hitlery than anything.


27 posted on 08/30/2007 10:18:51 PM PDT by WildcatClan (Hunter '08)
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To: GunnyBob
RE: ". . . does anyone know if the 1990 Detroit Free Press article . . . ."

I too found references to a Free Press article (dated July 15, 1990 some said).

There are tons of Free Press articles mentioning Ted Nugent dating back to the 1980s found using http://nl.newsbank.com/

A search of the Free Press articles found no such July 15, 1990 article. There were July 3, 1990 and August 9, 1990 articles plus several more that year in other months.

You can read the first paragraph but must purchase the whole article. Nothing in the first paragraph suggested that the subject matter was his personal early experiences.

I have not attempted to search the Free Press articles on that (or any) site looking for anything about a draft physical.

28 posted on 08/30/2007 10:20:36 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: endthematrix

I think he hits the nail just fine for a conservative rock star. How weel he can seperate his stage persona and his political persona is a question.

I don’t see any issue about the Marine thing. He’s been clear for a long time he did not serve in Vietnam


29 posted on 08/30/2007 10:20:45 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words)
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To: gondramB

“”In the late 1960s he lived with the MC5, a group which was the prototype, musically and pharmaceutically, for acts including Iggy Pop, The Clash and The Sex Pistols.””


“Kick Out the Jams! MotherFu****s!


30 posted on 08/30/2007 10:24:02 PM PDT by ansel12 (Paranoia, conspiracy, superiority, otherness, pod people "The Invasion" 2007 imdb)
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To: gondramB
All of Congress take acting lessons. In a way the Congress is a stage. If he wasn’t a performer I’d still shout, “Right On!” Recall the wooing at BC bad sax playing. Yeah, it reeks of populism, but I can ride the times.
31 posted on 08/30/2007 10:29:13 PM PDT by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: gondramB

In case anyone doesn’t know the reference (MC5). I first listened to them in 69.

“”While “Ramblin’ Rose” and “Motor City is Burning” open with inflammatory rhetoric, it was the opening line to the title track that stirred up the most controversy. Rob Tyner shouted, “And right now it’s time to... KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHERFU**ERS!” before the opening riffs. Elektra’s executives were offended by the line and had preferred to edit it out of the album, however the band and manager John Sinclair adamantly opposed this. Instead, two versions were released, with the uncensored version sold behind record counters.””


32 posted on 08/30/2007 10:30:08 PM PDT by ansel12 (Paranoia, conspiracy, superiority, otherness, pod people "The Invasion" 2007 imdb)
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To: GunnyBob
Maybe I am reading something into this, but this sure sounds like a claim to have been a Marine.

While I could be wrong, I read it as: the Marine Corps taught him something and that he does it every night. Exactly what the Marine Corps taught him, I'm not sure.

33 posted on 08/30/2007 10:36:55 PM PDT by Bob
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To: ConservativeofColor; SandRat
But he's spent a lot of time with them done a lot to support them.

Big difference.

For example, I was born in a hospital but don't claim to be a doctor.

And for the record, no, I am not a Marine nor am claiming so.

34 posted on 08/30/2007 10:37:37 PM PDT by llevrok (Feral republican.)
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To: GunnyBob

I don’t believe Ted Nugent would lie about this now and it doesn’t look like he did. It just sounds like some idiot is trying to light a fire where there is none.


35 posted on 08/30/2007 10:38:50 PM PDT by freekitty (May the eagles long fly over our beautiful and free American sky.)
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To: Bob; GunnyBob

I heard him, and I know that he has been spending a lot of time with the military recently, it sounded to me like he was acknowledging some recent Marine event or tour.


36 posted on 08/30/2007 10:40:00 PM PDT by ansel12 (Paranoia, conspiracy, superiority, otherness, pod people "The Invasion" 2007 imdb)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

I did not find anything in the Detroit Free Press either, but I did find these articles. Looks to me like is was a smear campaign by some animal rights whackos.

TED NUGENT RESPONDS
OP-ED COLUMN WAS VICIOUS ATTACK ON MY CHARACTER
THE SEATTLE TIMES
March 24, 1991

“My hunting message is even simpler. I deeply respect God’s creations, and value his design and my participation in it. The only thing true in Bowman’s attack is that I have no use for anybody who treats animals as equal citizens of the planet. I eat animals, but never people. This is the main thrust of Bowman and his cultist animal clan. Animals as citizens? That is preposterous, and what separates moral fibre from hypocrisy.

Reciting a fictitious story from the hippies at Rolling Stone about how I got out of the draft is another example. I had a 1-Y student deferment, for the record.”

NUGENT’S MESSAGE OF CRUELTY, VIOLENCE
THE SEATTLE TIMES
March 18, 1991
Author: DAVE BOWMAN

“In a recent Animals’ Agenda article (``Ted Nugent: Serial Killer of Wildlife’’), Nugent relates how when faced with the possibility of conscription, he impressed the local draft board as to his unsuitability by letting all personal hygiene fall by the wayside - even to the point of relieving himself in his trousers for days on end.

And he wants to school your children.”


37 posted on 08/30/2007 10:40:08 PM PDT by flying Elvis ("In...War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst" Clausewitz.)
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To: GunnyBob

Can’t find anything on it .

I did find a funny quote from Nugent though; his response to a French journalist asking him about hunting.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/nugent.asp


38 posted on 08/30/2007 10:40:14 PM PDT by biscuit jane
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To: ansel12

Bump


39 posted on 08/30/2007 10:50:55 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: llevrok
For example, I was born in a hospital but don't claim to be a doctor.

Nugent never claimed to be a marine. He said the Marine Corp. taught him something.

Big difference.

40 posted on 08/30/2007 10:51:37 PM PDT by ConservativeofColor
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To: llevrok

Yet if you spent a lot of time visiting the hospital and talking to the hospital, you could be taught by the hospital and may express this.

What a ridiculous thread.


41 posted on 08/30/2007 10:53:07 PM PDT by Carling (It's Danny, Sir)
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To: GunnyBob
“By the way, we’re selling out every concert on this “Love Grenade” tour. And I do exactly what the good Marine Corps taught me every night.” Maybe I am reading something into this, but this sure sounds like a claim to have been a Marine.

I thing you're missing some context.

In 2005, Nugent was one of the stars of a USMC benefit concert called "Rockin' the Corps". His current tour seems to be based on that idea.

What he is doing in this tour - the message he's sending, the way he's sending it, and the importance of sending it - may well be based on what he learned from the retired marines who organized the earlier concert.

42 posted on 08/30/2007 10:58:26 PM PDT by jdege
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To: GunnyBob

I guess if Bill Clinton can be “America’s first black President” then Don Knots could be a Marine(?)


43 posted on 08/30/2007 11:12:16 PM PDT by The Duke (I have met the enemy, and he is named 'Apathy'!)
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To: The Duke

Don Knotts:

Veteran of the Second World War who was awarded the World War II Victory Medal, Philippine Liberation Medal, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (with 4 bronze service stars), Army Good Conduct Medal, Marksman Badge (with Carbine Bar) and Honorable Service Lapel Pin.

Served in the Army of the United States, under the service number 35 756 363, from June 21, 1943 to January 6, 1946. Discharged in the rank of Technician Grade 5, which was the equivalent of a Corporal.


44 posted on 08/30/2007 11:17:42 PM PDT by ansel12 (Paranoia, conspiracy, superiority, otherness, pod people "The Invasion" 2007 imdb)
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To: Carling

I agree with you 100%.


45 posted on 08/30/2007 11:41:10 PM PDT by Shelayne (I will continue to pray for President Bush and my country, as I am commanded to do by my Lord.)
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To: flying Elvis
He alluded ( word) to the same thing on Dennis Miller radio.
“What the Marines taught me”
Didn’t know what he ment because I never thought he was in the military.
I assumed he ment the code. “god , country , corps.
Stay true the Constitution and the belief of good men.
46 posted on 08/31/2007 2:12:21 AM PDT by squibs
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To: llevrok
Thats different. If you spent a couple weeks with doctors in Doctors Without Borders, you might say “what the good doctors taught me” but that wouldn’t sound like you were claiming to be one. If Ted spent a couple weeks in Falluja with the Marines and later said “what the good Marines taught me” it might appear he was claiming to be a Marine or it could also just be a statement that “the good Marines” taught him something.
47 posted on 08/31/2007 2:29:28 AM PDT by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: Lancey Howard

I agree someone is looking to damage Nugent.. sharpshoot him
on the use of a phrase of speech.

I get a kick out of his craziness for our side.

A lot of people in this world can say

“The Marine Corps Taught Me”

Jar Heads, nice American folks like Nugent (who has every right to his ways). And those not so nice folks in far off Northern land or in Sunny tropic scenes ....reciently even in some desert resort communities like Fallujah....lol

Just a question of what the objective of todays training lesson plan is..

3 Months ago I couldn’t spell Marine now I R One...lol

Semper Fi.

W


48 posted on 08/31/2007 3:21:32 AM PDT by WLR
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To: GunnyBob

Looks like Clinton’s thugs are after Ted Nugent. Should be interesting.


49 posted on 08/31/2007 3:44:34 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: GunnyBob

I don’t like poseurs and this reeks of one.

However, I’d rather have a hundred wannabees like Nugent that believes in our cause than a former marine like John Murtha who spits on and back stabs his currently serving brothers.

Still, Nuge needs to watch his mouth.


50 posted on 08/31/2007 3:56:35 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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