We, The People, have screwed ourselves. Although some of us will not be dragged into the dustbin of history without kicking, gnashing teeth, and drawing final blood.
Posted on 02/18/2008 5:37:47 PM PST by Daffynition
Denise George never thought she was breaking the law.
Living on the outskirts of Dayton, Armstrong County, she didn't think twice about helping her Amish neighbors — whose religion prevents them from owning vehicles — make a trip or two into town during the week for supplies and other reasons.
That is, until she got a letter informing her that her actions were illegal.
The story is similar for Woodie Kirkwood, of Dayton.
A longtime driver of the Amish, Kirkwood was a little shocked and upset when he received two letters warning him of the same.
The letters, sent by the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission, are part of a crackdown on drivers who do not carry the proper certification to haul passengers for compensation. The crackdown, and the letters, are ongoing efforts in Indiana, Jefferson and Clearfield counties to inform the public of certification requirements, according to the PUC.
While Kirkwood and George live in Armstrong County, they transport the Amish from that area into neighboring Indiana and Jefferson counties. And their warning letters were just a few of the hundreds of cease-and-desist letters issued for the Altoona/Pittsburgh enforcement area — which includes Jefferson and Indiana counties — since 2004, said Denise DiNunzio, PUC acting press secretary.
GEORGE AND KIRKWOOD have a different stance on what is now a controversial topic.
George began transporting Amish about two years ago. She was at the home of one of her neighbors, where an Amish man had come to shoe the horses.
Her neighbor wasn't able take him home, so she did. On the way, he politely asked if she would ever be able to take his mother into town for supplies, she said.
That's how it started. And through word of mouth, more Amish asked her to take them, too.
“They just felt safe with my driving,” she said. “They know I would be able to get them there and back home safe.”
About twice a week since, George has transported Amish to doctor visits, the hospital emergency room, weddings or grocery shopping in Punxsutawney, Indiana and Kittanning. For her services, she receives gas money and sometimes handmade Amish goods and crafts.
But because she is not certified to transport people for compensation, and does so regularly, it is illegal.
“I did not look at it as illegal,” George said. “I just thought I was taking some friends I met along the way to town. I get my shopping done, and they help me with gas.”
Under PUC regulations, in Pennsylvania, it is “illegal to transport any passenger for compensation without holding a PUC Certificate of Public Convenience,” DiNunzio said.
The certificate is required for vehicles in two categories: Metered taxis and paratransit carriers. Paratransit carriers include passenger cars up to 15-passenger vans, and vehicles in this category are commonly used to transport “people whose personal convictions prevent them from owning or operating a vehicle,” DiNunzio said.
These certificates allow the PUC to monitor adherence to rules, rates, territory, insurance and safety standards and have been in place for a long time, DiNunzio said.
“The law that states anyone who transports others for compensation must be certified isn't new,” she said. “This is something that has been in the PUC Public Utility Code for several decades.”
But George thinks she shouldn't have to adhere to those rules, because she says that what she does is a favor, not a business.
“How do they have the nerve to say what we can or cannot do in our vehicles?” George asked of the PUC. “If it was your own family who gave you a few bucks for gas, what would the PUC say about that? What could they say? Sometimes, I need a ride. I'm going to give somebody money for gas.”
KIRKWOOD's experience with the Amish community began in 1964, he said. For about 10 years, he hauled produce to them, and while he was there, they noticed his large van and would ask them to take them places, such as New York, Ohio and other parts of Pennsylvania.
When he quit hauling produce, he continued transporting the Amish.
“I didn't even think I was doing anything illegal,” he said.
Then, Kirkwood received one warning letter and shrugged it off. But when the second letter came, he said he took it a little more seriously.
He decided to get informed and “look at the whole picture.” He called the PUC and spoke with officials there. He went to a public meeting in Luthersburg about the issue. He looked up information on the Internet. Then, he drew his conclusion.
“The main issue here is safety,” Kirkwood said. “At everything I looked at, I could only see safety, nothing more, nothing less.”
And because his business of transporting the Amish was profitable — bringing in about $500 a week — he decided to apply for the certificate, which he said will be valid Monday.
“It wasn't a hard process,” Kirkwood said. “You just file the application and wait.”
The certificate costs a one-time fee of $350 and needs to be renewed each year, DiNunzio said. Drivers with the certificate must also carry commercial insurance on the vehicle, and fees for this service can range up to $6,000 per year.
Kirkwood said it didn't really make a whole lot of difference pricewise to obtain the certificate and commercial insurance, calling it “a little bit of an increase.”
[SNIP]
Every day in every way our goverrnment makes us a ittle bit safer!
asses in gov. ping
This is just plain stupid.
What we now can not help a neighbor who wants to give us some gas money?
Many of Pennsyl-tucky’s “laws” are rooted in the distant past. A native, been back here for 20yrs. I could tell you stories about what they do to small business owners...
This is Pennsylvania. Certain parties have been trying to make the place uncomfortable to the Amish for quite some time.
Having solved all other problems with people who move [illegal immigration] 40 enforcement officers to handle this problem seems like a good investment of taxpayer monies. //sarc
I’d get homeland security and the FBI also.
If the Amish didn’t stand out by their ‘dress’ this whole thing would probably go unnoticed.
I guess people who “carpool” back and forth to work are in deep trouble here, too. Maybe “carpoolers” who also smoke in the car get some good jail time? And the mooch tells his buddy, “I’d pay you for gas, but I don’t wanna get you in trouble”.
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?”
said Dr. Ferris.
“We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight
that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against...
We’re after power and we mean it...
There’s no way to rule innocent men.
The only power any government has is the power to crack
down on criminals.
Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes
impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?
What’s there in that for anyone?
But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be
observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted –
and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then
you cash in on guilt.
Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game,
and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to
deal with.”
(’Atlas Shrugged’ 1957)
AYN RAND
Sometimes I despair at my fellow Americans.
Nowhere in the article is it explicitly stated that these people are charging money to transport other people.
Maybe we should just forget about licensing taxicabs?
What exactly is the controversy here?
Some things just make you want to beat your head against the wall.
Everything I read today causes me to pause and wonder if I’m reading an accurate portrayal of the incident.
Well, seems to me that the controversy is in the fact that at least two of these people have received written threats from an agency that apparently has the power to make their lives hell if they don’t knuckle under.
Man they will need a lot of luck getting all those people,a lot of trucks I see around Clymer have Amish passenger. Builders use them a lot. I also see lots of van hauling them too...With Fast Eddie in charge of the PUC look out..How can they prove it I don’t think Amish use checking accounts...
On its face, you would think that they were just helping out. But reading further, it becomes clear that these folks are running a livery service for the Amish. If there is some form of compensation, whether it be cash or barter they are in a sense violating their driver’s license and registration conditions. They become chauffuers and need to have their vehicles registered as livery and have a chauffuers license.
I point this out because if they get into an accident with a substantial loss, every insurance ratepayer pays.
Guess not. Hand him the yellow pages open to “Taxis”.
I took my neighbor to the hospital and dialysis for a year. She usually bought our lunch. I guess I need a taxi license.
We, The People, have screwed ourselves. Although some of us will not be dragged into the dustbin of history without kicking, gnashing teeth, and drawing final blood.
No doubt hauling people would be the same. But someone of her kind friends turned her in.
But it’s a good idea to give drivers licenses to illegals.
Could this be a shot against these people because of their religion?
THAT’S WHY.
Bingo! You got it! Another tax for the *little people.*
You're being disingenuous. There is a big difference in occasionally helping out a friend, and running an undeclared livery service.
Yes, the same argument can be made about carpools and how HOV lanes operate. The carpool driver/owner is functioning like a livery service also.
Wow, not wrong or using a bad analogy, disingenuous! I forgot what an evil person I was.
Once again, I am compelled to point out that the function of government is to govern. They will take all that we relinquish. If there was a Department of Toothpaste, those within their jurisdiction would not be able to legally brush their teeth with out "holding a Certificate of ..."
Just call it a car pool and ask for a state grant.
I dove a guy to work everyday for about a year. He wasn't allowed to drive because of a medical condition and it wasn't too far out of my way to pick him up. We both worked in the same building. He always paid for the gas. I guess I was breaking the law, but at the same time, the government was pushing car pooling, or share a ride.
I understand that this is complicated. The gov’t is pushing carpooling in one breath and giving the woman in the story and others like her a hard time for running a carpool.
It seems to me that the difference is that the in the case of the woman in the story, that she is making a trip specifically to accomodate the desires of her Amish ....and I’m looking for the correct word to describe them. I guess that you could call them patrons or cleintele. Both words imply that there is a service being provided for a fee. Which amazingly... sounds like.....oh I don’t know, like a business maybe?
There is this amazing jump to defend people here, from the long arm of the government, to which I am sympathetic, yet in this case it’s clear that these people have earned that wrath by running a business and not following the rule of law by registering it as a business.
It’s one thing to have a garage sale on a weekend and not collect sales tax. It’s another thing entirely, to have that same garage sale every weekend and not be collecting sales tax and have a tax ID number or a D.B.A.
Very soon there will be annual "re-certification fees". Count on it.
“’ey Vinnie, we gotta driva takin’ some slugs to da stor an’ back, an’ we ain’t gettin’ a cut. Time to ‘ave a conversation wit ‘em, know what I mean?”
Question. Is the law enforced to protect a public good, or is the law enforced to protect public monopolies?
In some cities, including Pittsburgh which is a relatively 'safe' city by today's standards, you can not get cab service to or from certain neighborhoods. These cab companies are government licensed services which do not have a universal service mandate that the electric, gas and telephone licensed monopolies do have. You can not refuse to send a service man to repair telephone service in a certain city neighborhood or in at an out of the way rural farm, but the cab companies can refuse service to those same areas.
The free market answer is jitneys, which is what this woman is. And IMHO, what the state regulators are doing to her in their blind quest to enforce the letter of the law is not protecting the public good, but protecting 'regulated' monopolies (and major political contributors BTW) from any potential competition.
Yes the government agents are trying to enforce their regulations to the detriment of the Amish, who reject said government. I understand this as a slap at the Amish, and this woman in the article is just the vehicle(pun not intended). I would think that the Amish, who are generally pretty smart people would set up their own service which would comply with the letter of the law and would operate for the benefit of their community.
Get one of their own community members, give him a service exemption, and have this person operate the service for the community. Problem solved.
There has always been a certain hostility between the government and the Amish/Menonites. They work on barter, and pay in cash when dealing outside their community so their transactions are hard to trace/tax. And therein lies the rub, The taxman is being cheated (in his mind anyway) and this is just an attempt by the government to force a paper trail to the benefit of the taxman.
The regulators are blind in their enforcement? Good.
The regulators have a "taxi" license law they have to enforce? Bad.
Another victimless crime law needing repeal.
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