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Lord of the Rings Question - Need Help, Please!

Posted on 05/19/2008 8:53:05 AM PDT by ConservativeDude

I have a question on a particular passage in Lord of the Rings and I need to find it. Can someone help?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; The Hobbit Hole
KEYWORDS: lordoftherings; tolkien
In particular, I am looking for that very moving passage where Mr. Frodo and Sam are talking about the stories that will be told later after they successfully complete their journey. Frodo tells Sam that he will play a big role in the stories to come. I really want to read this passage in its entirety, and I can't recall where it is. Rather than looking, I was hoping someone could pinpoint it for me.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Many thanks!

1 posted on 05/19/2008 8:53:06 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude

I think it’s at the end of The Two Towers


2 posted on 05/19/2008 8:57:04 AM PDT by bobjam
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To: ConservativeDude

Two Towers, while being led by Gollum to Shelob’s lair, I believe it’s after they’ve been through Ithilien.


3 posted on 05/19/2008 8:57:04 AM PDT by kevkrom (2-D fantasy artists wanted: http://faxcelestis.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=213)
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To: ConservativeDude

From the book or the movie?


4 posted on 05/19/2008 8:57:05 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: HairOfTheDog; ecurbh; mware

ping


5 posted on 05/19/2008 8:59:11 AM PDT by nutmeg (Obama supporters: Drink the Kool-Aid? Yes we can!)
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To: ConservativeDude

This one?

Back in Osgiliath Frodo hears the calling of the Ring. He walks out from where they are hidden

SAM: What are you doing?

A Nazgul flies over Osgiliath.

SAM: Where are you going?

Frodo stands on top of a wall. As he stand there a Nazgul flies up in front of him. Frodo holds out the Ring to it. Faramir looks up to see the Nazgul close to Frodo. Frodo closes his eyes and starts to put the Ring on. Sam rushes up the steps to him. As the beast reaches out to grab Frodo, Sam grabs him from behind and Faramir fires an arrow into the beast, who flies back screeching. Sam and Frodo tumble down the stairs holding onto each other. They collapse in a heap at the bottom. Frodo rolls Sam underneath him and quickly withdraws Sting, holding it at Sam’s throat.

SAM: It’s me. It’s your Sam. Don’t you know your Sam?

With gradual realisation Frodo sits back dropping Sting on the floor. He slumps back against a wall as Sam sits up

FRODO: I can’t do this, Sam.

SAM: (getting to his feet) I know. It’s all wrong. (he leans against a wall looking out at Osgiliath) By rights, we shouldn’t even be here. But we are. It’s like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. (he watches a Nazgul fly away) Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn’t want to know the end.....because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back
to the way it was...... when so much bad had happened?

Frodo sits panting, tears in his eyes. In Helms Deep the Uurk-hai are running away. Theoden raises his sword in joy.

THEODEN: Victory! We have victory!

SAM VOICEOVER: But in the end, it’s only a passing thing...... this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories
that stayed with you......that meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now.

Gandalf kills another Uruk-hai and smiles. Aragorn pauses and smiles. The flood water continues to flow into the Isengard dungeons and Merry and Pippin look relieved. Saruman backs back into his tower

SAM: Folk in those stories......had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going......because they were holding on to something.
FRODO: What are we holding on to, Sam?

Sam turns to look at Frodo. Gollum looks on sadly. Sam lifts Frodo to his feet

SAM: That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.

Frodo stares at Sam. Gollum looks solemn and drops his eyes. Faramir appears, walks up to them, and kneels down beside Frodo. Madril and the other soliders appear behind Sam and Frodo

FARAMIR: I think at last we understand one another, Frodo Baggins. (he stands up)

MADRIL: You know the laws of our country, the laws of your father. If you let them go, your life will be forfeit.

Frodo and Sam look worried. Faramir pauses

FARAMIR: Then it is forfeit. Release them.

Frodo looks relieved and Sam brushes a soldier’s hand from his shoulder


6 posted on 05/19/2008 8:59:46 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

That is clearly the movie script. I have doubts that it is in the novel, but am not sure.


7 posted on 05/19/2008 9:06:02 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (All of this has happened before, and will happen again!)
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To: kevkrom; bobjam

You guys are awesome. I found it in like 30 seconds after your posts.

THANK YOU!


8 posted on 05/19/2008 9:08:22 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude

I’m thinking it may be this one:

Sam:
I wonder if we’ll ever be put into songs or tales.
Frodo:
What?
Sam:
I wonder if people will ever say, ‘let’s hear about Frodo and the Ring.’
And they’ll say, ‘yes, that’s one of my favorite stories. Frodo was really courageous, wasn’t he, dad.’
‘Yes, my boy, the most famousest of hobbits. And that’s saying a lot.’
Frodo:
You left out one of the chief characters. ‘Samwise the Brave. I want to hear more about Sam. Frodo wouldn’t have got far without Sam.’
Sam:
Now Mr. Frodo, you shouldn’t make fun. I was being serious.
Frodo:
So was I.
Sam:
Samwise the Brave.


9 posted on 05/19/2008 9:10:18 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

I wanted to find it in the book, but I recall this scene from the movie as well as from a BCC radio dramatization. It is really quite moving in each of these genres.

(Which is another reason why LOTR is the masterpiece that it is....)


10 posted on 05/19/2008 9:10:29 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

yes, that is the movie version...thank you. I love it. I love the book passage, also. It’s on page 697 in my Two Towers, near the end of the Stairs of Cirith Ungol.


11 posted on 05/19/2008 9:12:35 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

In the book it’s a conversation on the stairs of Cirith Ungol. In the book, Frodo is a strong character. In the movie, he is weak. It’s a light hearted section that Jackson turned maudlin. He did the same to the scene where Sam walks into the lake.


12 posted on 05/19/2008 9:20:08 AM PDT by Varda (Let's Go Pens!)
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To: Varda

Faramir was mischaracterized as well. Also, Pippin and Merry were made out to be clowns in the movie.


13 posted on 05/19/2008 9:24:44 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: ConservativeDude; HairOfTheDog

The good FReepers at the Hobbit Hole can probably give you the answer.


14 posted on 05/19/2008 9:26:37 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

That’s it.


15 posted on 05/19/2008 9:30:26 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Jackson changed many characters in a way I found hard to swallow (His Gandalf the White made no sense), on the other hand I thought his Boromir was actually better than the book. The trilogy was certainly a great movie accomplishment. I hope he has respect for the source material when he does The Hobbit.


16 posted on 05/19/2008 9:37:26 AM PDT by Varda (Let's Go Pens!)
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To: ConservativeDude

“The Journey to the Crossroads” or “Of Stewed Rabbit”, are the chapters where I think it might be, in “The Two Towers”, if my sometimes faulty memory is correct...


17 posted on 05/19/2008 9:37:49 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla; Carpe Cerevisi; HairOfTheDog; 2Jedismom; JenB
That is clearly the movie script. I have doubts that it is in the novel, but am not sure.

Not in that manner. IIRC, the ring (thus Frodo and Sam) do not go to Osgiliath in the books.

18 posted on 05/19/2008 9:38:42 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: ConservativeDude
Not the one you want, but my favorite.

http://www.blinkx.com/video/lotr-aragorn-speech/CoJyLxbUzxbWW-O8NOWXiA

19 posted on 05/19/2008 10:59:33 AM PDT by mware (mware...killer your threads)
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To: mware

Damn right!

“Once more unto the breach, men, once more!....for England, for Harry and for ST. GEORGE!!!!”

AAARRRGGH!!!

I love this stuff. I get choked up for anything along those lines!


20 posted on 05/19/2008 11:07:26 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude

I love those books. I read them at least twice a year in my teen years; they were like a breath of fresh air from the dreck on tv that I was watching...can’t remember any of the stupid sitcoms, but I know those books.

On a sober note, I wonder when they’ll be banned from school libraries? The trilogy shows people doing what is right in the face of insurmountable odds, which I suppose is very subversive in a world in which you’d be wise to just do what you’re told by your betters.


21 posted on 05/19/2008 11:14:05 AM PDT by yellow rubber ducky (One day I realized I am living in Bizarro world.)
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To: yellow rubber ducky

which I suppose is very subversive in a world in which you’d be wise to just do what you’re told by your betters.”

When there are too many right-doing Hobbits in the world, that makes life hard for would-be totalitarians. Which is, as you note, why the books must be banned from schools....


22 posted on 05/19/2008 11:18:15 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude
One of my favorite parts in ROTK, was when the men were about to confront the enemy in the final battle. They all stood there standing, looking at the enemy they knew would defeat them without a miracle. They little Merry and Pippin stepped out and lead the charge against the enemy.

Damn, that sent shivers up my spine.

23 posted on 05/20/2008 5:16:50 AM PDT by mware (mware...killer your threads)
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To: mware

ok, now that we’re on a roll...how about when the doors to the city (Minas Tirith?) are being pounded down, and Gandalf is there with the troops, and says, “Men of Gondor, whatever comes through that door, you will stand and fight!”. And then those Mountain Trolls burst through, and they do stand and fight.

Man, I loved that also!

I think, incidentally, that Return of the King might be the best movie of all time.


24 posted on 05/20/2008 6:32:05 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude
Okay, how about this line. Can't recall the book it was in but when Sam Wise tells Frodo,

"Mr. Frodo there are some things worth fighting for."

25 posted on 05/20/2008 7:27:30 AM PDT by mware (mware...killer your threads)
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To: ConservativeDude
It’s like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn’t want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy. How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. . .Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn’t. Because they were holding on to something. . .There’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it’s worth fighting for.
26 posted on 05/20/2008 8:07:46 AM PDT by mware (mware...killer your threads)
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To: mware

I add only this: how much poorer would we be had Tolkien not lived, not finished LOTR, had he gone lazy on us, had he not witnessed to Lewis, had he not singlehandedly rescued Beowulf from the trash heap of academia, etc., etc., etc.

Truly, that was a life well-lived.


27 posted on 05/20/2008 9:37:19 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

NO. No it isn’t. That is the WORST part in the movie trilogy. It makes me want to put my head through a wall. Was that dialogue really so much better than Tolkien’s, Peter Jackson? WAS IT? </rant>


28 posted on 09/01/2009 1:48:33 AM PDT by Sockdologer (Waiting patiently for the Democrats to solve the world's problems.)
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To: Sockdologer; HairOfTheDog

Well it has been a while (over a year) but to go back to the argument, most of Jackson’s changes were part of the necessity to simplify the construction of the story, but some of it was due to his reimagining parts of the characterization, often to simplify. In my mind the worst of this is what he did to Denethor, turning him from a tormented individual damaged by trying to fight Sauron directly, through Palantirs, and defeated as anyone would be in that struggle. He turned him into a demented and gross cowardly fool! Reprehensible!


29 posted on 09/01/2009 2:18:23 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ("men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." -- Edmund Burke)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

True. That was a little worse than Frodo GIVING the ring to the Nazgul. At any rate, simplification is all well and good, but if you provide proper visual imagery, it shouldn’t be necessary. There’s just no excuse for cutting out Tolkien’s beautiful language.


30 posted on 09/01/2009 12:36:04 PM PDT by Sockdologer (Waiting patiently for the Democrats to solve the world's problems.)
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To: ConservativeDude

i know exactly what you are talking about. give me a minute...


31 posted on 09/01/2009 12:38:16 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: ConservativeDude
"How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on, when in your heart you begin to understand. There is no going back. There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep. That have taken hold.

My dear. You cannot always be torn in two. You have to be one and whole for many years. You have so much to enjoy and to be and to do. Because, your part in the journey goes on."

is this it? it's from the end of the Return of the King.

32 posted on 09/01/2009 12:43:29 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: ConservativeDude
Agree... I get shivers at those rousing battle speeches. I think Aragorn's speech at the black gates ranks among the best ever. Brings a tear to my eye, every time:

Hold your ground! Hold your ground! Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers! I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me! A day may come when the courage of men fails. When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day! An hour of wolves, and shattered shields when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear... on this good earth... I bid you stand! Men of the West!

[snif] :-)

33 posted on 09/01/2009 12:50:57 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Ramius

thanks all of you for bumping this old thread back to the top!!!!


34 posted on 09/01/2009 2:51:39 PM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Ramius
My personal favorite (besides Aragorn's speech) was when Frodo and Sam were up on Mount Doom and Sam was trying to get Frodo to remember the Shire, but the Ring was so powerful at that point that Frodo couldn't get past the Ring. Sam then makes this declaration...

"Let us be rid of it then...once and for all! Come on Mr. Frodo...I can't carry it for you...but I can carry you! Come on!"

...and then lifts Frodo onto his shoulders and caries him up the mountain. I've always thought of that point as when Samwise the Brave turned into Samwise the Mighty. That scene never ceases to choke me up.

35 posted on 09/01/2009 3:09:50 PM PDT by hoagy62 (Obama: slowly sucking the positive attitude out of the US since 11-4-08)
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To: hoagy62

I loved the scene where Pippin signs in the hall of Denethor...The way the scene fades out to the slow motion ride against the orc-occupied fortress...Made the hair on the back of my neck rise first time I saw that scene, and I still think it’s brilliant.


36 posted on 01/21/2010 2:25:19 PM PST by kaylar (It's MARTIAL law. Not marshal(l) or marital-MARTIAL! This has been a spelling PSA.)
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