Posted on 06/10/2008 8:17:49 PM PDT by medatj
I'm a Chinese and live in Beijing. You may heard about a massive earthquake stroke Sichuan province last month.
In this natural disaster, one my fellow people, exactly a teacher, ran before his students and declared his view of personal liberty and freedom regardless his teacher indentity. His allegation has triggered a extensive discussion on humanity and teacher, as a publice servant,responsibility.
I know that personal liberty is well developed and protected in US. But, and the same time, US is a country regarding public responsibility especially for those paid by the taxpayers to do their civil job.
I came here to post this more for my confusion. How do you American people look at this? I heard that in your civil law teacher, as other public servant, has the reponsibility to protect the public first. How do you fellow people look at the responsibility vs personal liberty?
Thank you guys. :)
Welcome to Free Republic!
To answer the posters question. I think the whole story is an exaggeration and a diversion tactic drummed up by the Chicom media.
As for the idea that a guy (public servant or otherwise) under extreme stress freaked out and ran for his life, I dont find that bizarre. People can do strange things under extreme stress, especially if they have never faced it before.
Hence, in an incident like this, it becomes a matter of personal values. If you value your own life above anything else, you're free to make the same choice as this teacher did. If, however, you believe that you couldn't live with yourself knowing that you let a classroom of children die to save your own life, you might make a different choice.
See #7.
The issue should never have come up. Teaching is too important to trust any government with.
I believe some people went to jail for abandoning their drowning patients/residents in New Orleans during Katrina.
denverpost.com
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_9352828
WINDSOR — The emergency plan called for the children from the Windmill Child Enrichment Center to march over to the nearby Bank of Choice before a tornado strikes.
On Thursday, there was no time.
Teachers at the center were just able to shoo the children into their own building as the tornado hit town.
When it was past, Cheryl Tori of Greeley pulled into town just in time to see a daisy chain of children marching into the bank as teachers did a head count. All were probably scared. Some were crying. None of the 167 kids was seriously hurt.
“That staff and that director all deserve a medal,” said Tori, 55, who was passing through on her way to Fort Collins. “They had them all inside, protected.”
[Story continues at above link]
I think one big difference is in the United States most schools perform regular emergency drills for such events as tornadoes, fires, hurricanes, earthquakes etc. Teachers and students practice these evacuations/relocations on a regular basis to know what to do in case of a disaster.
It sounds like in the earthquake in China, the teachers had no plan, no idea what to do. Each teacher had to make split second decisions on their own: one teacher ran away from his students, another teacher laid on top of his students and saved them from being crushed to death.
I think more children would have survived if the teachers had been trained on what to do in case of this kind of emergency.
“Examing the answers” means still no conclusion?
Really? You mean medical specialist?
Is there really some physical regulation for that behavior?
Yes, your comment made me think deeper of my own undestanding of this teacher and his mis-behavior.
He’s no wrong as a personal, naturally. But when he’s blamed for his professional misconduct, we should put more attention on why he didn’t acquire sufficient and propoer training to handle himself and manage his pupils. That’s because the authority and administration didn’t give enough attention to staff and student safty and, then, didn’t provide training to the faculty and their student.
That’s not a problem to a single runner, but for the administration, in long term view.
To the contrary, there have been many conclusions. But indivdual freedom mated with personal responsibility means that you, for the most part, have to use your own best judgment to determine the boundaries.
This is to add to what Tamar1973 stated in post #13. Schools here tend to focus on potential dangers that are more common in a given area of the country. For example, when I was young lad, I lived in a part of the US prone to tornadoes and hurricanes. Thus, the schools held tornado and hurricane drills in addition to the customary fire drills. In areas that are prone to earthquakes, schools have earthquake drills in addition fire drills.
J.....
Dude, are you too sensitive? I’m just a ordinary people often checking news and informationa and wanna share and learn....
I believe that this human society exsits because we can stand tegother when bad things happen to us. That’s a ultimate vuale of human race.
I’m no spy..... True spy doesn’t come here
In the case of teachers, they are being paid to teach their students, not to be policemen or some other person who is paid to protect them. But many teachers here have been heroes, protecting their students from various calamities. One example is Dr. Liviu Lebrescu, who taught at Virginia Tech University. When the massacre occurred at Virginia Tech, he blocked the doorway to his classroom with his own body so that the students could have time to escape out the windows. I'm sure he realized he would not live through it, but Dr. Lebrescu was a Holocaust survivor and had seen many things, and I'm sure he knew he could not live with himself if he did not do all he could to save the students. Here is an excellent article about him: We Remember: Biographies - Virginia Tech.
And what about our belief in personal liberty? We do believe in that strongly. But many of us who are on this forum believe that we only have freedom because many people before us were willing to give of themselves so that we would have it now. Look at policemen or firefighters or soldiers. Look at the risks they run. They could not possibly be paid enough to give their lives, and yet they do it every day, because that is what they have sworn to do, to protect others. Freedom is nothing without personal honor.
Perhaps others will disagree. But I believe we protect others because it is the right thing to do, not because we are being paid for it. I think that deep down, the Chinese people believe that too, which is why there is so much talk about the teacher who ran away. No, he was not being paid enough to sacrifice his life for his students. No one in the world has that much money, to pay him for that. But it sounds as though most of you believe he should have protected his students because it was the right thing to do, not because he was being paid for it.
You maybe right.
In China, teacher is a very special occupation. When I was a little boy, back 10 or 15 years, we and our parents trusted the teacher and we, student, respect the teacher as our older families.
When I was in Grade 5 in primary school, my parents had no time to make me lunch and I had lunch in my teacher’s home and I still remember her. I believe when disaster happens, I would try to help her and she would too.
Any way, thank you guys. This discussion is very helpful.:)
I would agree with that. That might one lesson China takes away from this horrible tragedy. Most of China is prone to earthquakes and needs to update their buildings accordingly.
They also need to make sure public officials: teachers, police, hospital staff, etc are all trained about how to evacuate or relocate in case of an earthquake or other disaster such as a fire.
Speaking to this specific situation, I believe that the teacher was a coward. Whether required by law or not, he did have a moral obligation to help the children find safety. They are kids and he is an adult who accepted a position of authority which also carries certain responsibilities (among those being a moral obligation to protect the children).
He was just joking, that's what the LOL! tag means.
to Hetty,
Yeah, I remember Dr. Lebrescu. I saw him on our TV program. He’s a hero.
When people talk about liberty and freedom, a few of them may forget that both of them is not a accquired privilige for human race in a reality world. Lots of people worked and even died for it.
Thank you, Hetty, your comment is really impressing. :)
That's what makes that particular story even more stunning. I used to live in Korea and Koreans also hold teachers in the highest esteem and to read of a teacher acting in such a cowardly fashion is more outrageous. Thankfully, most of the teachers did the best they knew how to do and tried to get their children to safety.
I believe they got in trouble for euthanizing patients who couldn’t be moved.
The spy comment was a joke. =o)
As I stated in another post, my wife is a teacher. Every day the parents of many children trust her with their care and welfare. First she has to ensure their safety before she can even begin to teach. Every teacher I know accepts this responsibility as part of the job.
NI HAO
Wo hun gao xin jian dao ni.
Welcome to FREEREPUBLIC.COM
Please ignore folks who have no courtesy or trust of anything Chinese. They have their reasons, right or wrong.
As our founding fathers asserted, the American Form of a Democratic REPUBLIC can only work
IF
the people are overwhelmingly Christian in their values. Otherwsie, there would not be enough police to keep everyone behaving rightly. And then who would police the police?
That is, IF the American citizens do not behave properly BECAUSE they know Almighty God is watching them and will reward or punish them accordingly, then the American form of government will just not work—there would be too much lawlessness, selfishness etc.
I believe that is true. And, I believe that is why American society is breaking down—because the globalist puppet masters have succeeded in trashing our Judeo-Christian value and causing our society to become more and more immoral.
50 years ago, things were different.
THEN, every individual had more of a sense of responsibility—
1. FIRST TO GOD
2. THEN TO WIFE AND CHILDREN and somewhat to extended family
3. THEN maybe to work or neighborhood, village.
4. THEN to country.
So, at that time, CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY was very much tied-in with, connected with our individual responsibility to our God, to Jesus. Citizens tried at least to LOOK LIKE they were responsible Godly citizens doing the right, honorable and responsible thing as Christians—to and for their families and also then, to the larger community.
And, that was a standard—did people behave in a Christian way as Christ Jesus would want them to as Christians. That was a standard that most everyone at least acted like they believed and held dear to their hearts and tried to act accordingly as honorable Christians.
FREEDOM was viewed as FREEDOM IN RESPONSIBILITY—not freedom to rebel or freedom to do an individual thing that would hurt family and community.
The story was told of 2 horses. One was wild and ran very freely. His brother horse was trained and the favorite horse of the rancher. The wild horse gloried in his utter freedom. Yet, when drought and severe winter came, the wild horse had little to eat. Freedom was not so much fun then.
The favorite horse of the farmer was free to roam, except when the farmer whistled. Then, the trained horse chose to go immediately to the farmer. They had a close bond. The horse loved to please the farmer. They were faithful to each other. The horse had a lot of freedom within limits. when the rancher needed him, the horse delighted to serve the rancher. And, the rancher delighted to take real good care of the horse with the best food and shelter and lots of grooming and affection.
We can say the rancher’s horse was free in obedience—a kind of paradox. The wild horse was freer in a sense—but without food—starving in a hard winter—that wasn’t very free.
50 years ago in the USA, individuals responsible first to God, then to their families and then to their work and communities counted their responsibilities very seriously. They felt free to express their opinions to a point. They did not feel free to destroy the community that gave them an opportunity to work and to fellowship with other responsible people.
Individuals then who worked for the government as ‘civil servants’ tended to see themselves more as there to serve the people, to help citizens—they called themselves public servants with some authenticity.
Now, the globalists infecting our educational systems for 50 years have destroyed the Judeo-Christian values of our universities and schools. They have succeeded in getting many people to think that THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG. IF IT FEELS GOOD, DO IT. DON’T THINK ABOUT CONSEQUENCES. Just be responsible to yourself for your own happiness.
Of course, that is destructive to society, to community. It is very selfish and even crazy. But many people believe that way now.
And, government attitudes have changed such that the Federal Government acts like god and treats citizens like slaves or objects to take as much money from as taxes as they can possibly get away with.
Many workers for government as well as for private employers feel that it is every individual for themselves. Each person should get all they can get and not think about consequences.
It is a little like the Chinese values where everyone hates the back door but is still first in line to use the back door.
Many U.S. citizens act irresponsibly as citizens seeking only their own selfish interest. Yet they are the first to curse other governmnet or private employees who do the same thing.
I think it is impossible to have a society of responsible individuals unless responsibility is part of one’s personal and group values.
Christians are first responsible to God who sees all and will eventually reward and punish accordingly. And, Christians believe in the universal law that all of us reap what we have sown—we harvest what we have planted—good if we planted good—bad if we planted bad.
But if man is nothing more than a rat, a pigeon, a radish or a rock—nothing more than chance plus time—then it does not matter whether I shoot you or feed you or give you flowers—nothing makes any difference.
IF, HOWEVER, I’m an individual loved of God and made in His image, then I’m responsible to return His love and to act as He would have me act. That is responsibility—to my God, to my family, to myself and to my community.
THEN, I can be free in God’s love to have His blessings.
If I am selfish and rebellious—I may think I’m freer to do whatever I please . . . and not realize very early that all my choices have consequences that I cannot escape. Sooner or later, I will have to pay the fiddler. Sooner or later, my behaviors will have consequences. And selfish behaviors tend to have very costly consequences.
REbellion pretends to be the maximum freedom choice. However, it’s consequences are so costly, it ends up with the most FREEDOM-RESTRICTING results of rebellious choices. Either hunger, illness or death or imprisonment tends to follow life choices of rebellion.
So, ultimately, I think personal responsibility and personal freedom have a lot of paradoxes associated with them. Careful balanced responsibility—especially first to God, family and community—results in maximum freedom.
Selfish, rebellious individualism eventually crashes and burns.
Chinese culture prizes POWER . . . even authoritarian, tyrannical power. Yet there is also the cultural awareness in the histories and fables of how the most powerful emporers could be the most corrupt and lose the mandate of Heaven.
There was also the value of benevolent authority. That is not greatly far from the Western notion of a leader serving under God’s authority in a Godly way—serving his citizens in a loving, caring, gentle and responsible way instead of selfishly as a tyrant.
Sooner or later, all individuals including top leaders will harvest what they have planted. Many do not think so. They think they have enough power or money to get away with whatever selfishness they desire.
However, life is not like that. Sooner or later they will harvest what they have sown.
There is an Almighty God in His Heaven and His Word is true. We all reap what we sow.
I hope this is understandable.
Thank you for your question.
Xie Xie
Yesu Ai4 Ni2
—Bo2 Xian2
Oh,man.....are you serious? Don’t you see I replied in a exaggerated attitude....... ;)
Any way thank you for replying my post
Thank you.
You’re right. Although we live in different cultures and those cultures have conflict sometime, we share something and some value in common, like courage, helping and heroism.
I feel my decision to send a post here and have discussion with you guys is a right decision, which helps me to think this matter from different angels.
With a hero in heart, we can live a brave life.
Although a litte profound, I appreciate your elaborate expression on people and humanity. :)
In this discussion, I didn’t find any discourteousness and like you people speak frankly and directly, although we live in different countries and cultures.
Keeping sharing and communication, we can be friend :)
There are many regulations for the conduct of medical specialists. As an example, an emergency medical responder is resposible to turn a patient over to a hospital or person of a higher level of medical designation if the conditions warrant.
Generally violations of those types of laws look more at suspending or removing a persons medical credentials.
Xie Xie
Ni kuh-uh-qi
Thank you for your kind reply.
Wo . . . hun gao xin shr ni de peng yo
I’m happy to be your friend.
Post #31: Well put. Thanks.
Actually it should be “wo hen gao xin” instead of “wo hun gao xin”， while hen is the pinyin of 很。 Personally I am a little curious about the issue “ is a teacher obligated to help the children in emergency?” In China it is stated in law that officials and teachers are responsible to help children: “School officials and teachers should act properly to protect the children and report to the authority when students’ life or safety are threatened “ from “Law of the People’s Republic of China on the Protection of Minors” I am interested that is there similar laws in the U.S. Personally I felt that teachers do have the obligation to protect the children.
Actually I do think firefighters ha the obligation to help.
If he/she refused to do so, it should be a dereliction of duty.
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