Posted on 07/16/2008 7:59:20 AM PDT by martin_fierro
Cavemen and their relatives in the same village after 3,000 years
Uwe Lange meets a recreation of one of his Bronze Age ancestors
Roger Boyes in Berlin
The good news for two villagers in the Söse valley of Germany yesterday was that they have discovered their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents — give or take a generation or two.
The bad news is that their long-lost ancestors may have grilled and eaten other members of their clan.
Every family has its skeletons in the cave, though, so Manfred Hucht-hausen, 58, a teacher, and 48-year-old surveyor Uwe Lange remained in celebratory mood. Thanks to DNA testing of remarkably well-preserved Bronze Age bones, they can claim to have the longest proven family tree in the world. “I can trace my family back by name to 1550,” Mr Lange said. “Now I can go back 120 generations.”
Mr Lange comes from the village of Nienstedt, in Lower Saxony, in the foothills of the Harz mountain range. “We used to play in these caves as kids. If I’d known that there were 3,000-year-old relatives buried there I wouldn’t have set foot in the place.”
The cave, the Lichtensteinhöhle, is made up of five interlocked natural chambers. It stayed hidden from view until 1980 and was not researched properly until 1993. The archaeologist Stefan Flindt found 40 skeletons along with what appeared to be cult objects. It was a mystery: Bronze Age man was usually buried in a field. Different theories were considered. Perhaps some of the bodies had been offered as human sacrifice, or one generation had been eaten by another.
< -- SNIP -- >
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
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Are the cavemen still dead?
"No. Next time do a little research, OK?"
I have been considering going through the ancestry.com DNA profile for family tree testing. I’ve been researching my family tree there for years. Do you consider it worth it? As a female, my expense would be double since I would have to not only have my mitrochrondrial DNA tested, but also have my father’s DNA tested. With gas as it is, it is cutting into our ‘extra’ fund and my husband thinks it is a silly waste of time and money. After all, what knowledge could be gained other than just ‘knowing’. I tried to explain if enough people are on this list, it might could help in marrow donations or something like that. He doesn’t know and I don’t either.
Thanks for you information. I figure with a ping list, you might know a little something about it.
I’ll have the roast chicken with the mango salsa...
Research requires reading and comprehension, I was lucky to not have either in my DNA.
* snort * AS IF. < |:)~
My sister (X DNA) & I (Y DNA) did ours through the Nat'l Geographic "Genographic" project. I think it was worth it (about $100 each).
Daddy?
paging Neocaveman
> I tried to explain if enough people are on this list, it might could help in marrow donations or something like that. He doesn’t know and I don’t either.
I don’t know about DNA being useful for unrelated bone marrow donations, but I would encourage you and your husband to volunteer for the unrelated bone marrow donation list anyway.
It is usually tested in two steps: the first set of tests are relatively easy and inexpensive for the health services to do. And they provide enough info for them to screen “close matches”.
The second set of tests they do is quite a bit more expensive for them, so they only tend to do it when they have found a close match. They will be looking for some very precise attributes in the sample.
Only if you are a close enough match from both lot of tests will you be called upon to donate, which usually requires an overnight stay in hospital, plus a fairly safe procedure under general anesthetic. All costs are usually picked up for the donor.
You can pull out of donating anytime; however, they prefer you not to beyond a go-nogo point, as your recipient will undergo chemotherapy to kill off all his/her existing diseased marrow. Beyond that point it is too late for them if you do pull out: they will die without your donation.
Once donated, your marrow is given to the recipient by way of ordinary IV drip, where it magically finds its way to the long bones and regenerates.
Anyrate, that’s just a short plug for a thoroughly worthwhile cause. If enough people registered, leukemia and other marrow diseases would be much easier and cheaper to treat, with a much higher survival rate than presently possible.
(Yes, I’m registered.)
Looks like someone got up on the wrong side of the rock
:)
Did anyone see the National Geo. special on the guy who is taking DNA samples in Asia and other spots around the world?
He found a little girl and a man in central Asia whose DNA traced back to a sample from way the hell back.
Oh, that’s much cheaper!
I will check into that. Thank you!
The blonde girl in China whose ancestors are still nomadic, traced back to the mitrochondria of a supposed Amazon tribe near the black sea/greece.
Boy did her ancestors literally cross a continent.
I have a feeling the DNA testing will show alot of adoptions over the years.
Thanks.
DNA testing has shown that about 10% of us are not born to the man who mom said was dad. This found when geneticists track down family trees. About 30% of people who actually go out to test their paternity find they are not the father.
But as far as genetics go, human beings were a very mobile lot, and when mobile, liked to interbreed with the local population as much as possible. We are all very closely related.
Didn’t see it.
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Me too.
Is Registered registered?
And cuckolding...
Is there a web site to go to if someone wants to be registered?
You know, someone told me that if you match 25/25 that you are very likely to match pretty close if you upgrade. This has been the case for us. People who matched 25/25 upgraded to 37 and matched 36/37 (different surnames). Turns out there was an unknown adoption back in the late 18th century that no one knew about. Technically, not an adoption, but the child was raised by someone else and the story got lost through the years. If I were you, I'd upgrade and/or look more into this. There is probably something there that you don't know about! A great mystery!
And...if you do it, I would recommend joining a surname group first and doing at least a 25 or 37 marker test. The 12 marker won't show you much of anything unless you have a very unusual surname. With one of our surnames we have over 600 matches on the 12 marker. Doesn't tell us much at all, but the 37 really narrowed it down. We're even upgrading to a 67 now.
I love genealogy DNA!
Hey, I will write your name down. As I said, I have been studying my ancestry for a while and it’s like a really great puzzle. This DNA is a missing piece for me I think.
Thanks for the information!
Uwe Lange meets a recreation of one of his Bronze Age ancestors
Skelette aus der Bronzezeit, spannende Fundsituation im Berndsaal der Lichtensteinhöhle
skeletons from the bronzeage, exciting find...
Yes. But you're not allowed to know about it unless you're registered.
Thanks for the pics. It is pretty interesting, human remains that old are rare.
all is not as it appears in the original article, Google Lichtensteinhöhle for more, unfortunately it's all in german...
no reference to what appears to be evidence of trepanation either...
but what's truly fascinating, is that the number of remains discovered are described as zahllose UNCOUNTABLE.
Discovery area. Very confined space?
Entry. Excellent hiding place maybe?
Excellent, until the big wave came? :’)
Exactly!
And the few who did not hide in caves, or were not washed away and drowned, survived to become ancestors.
Human remains from that period are rare, whereas animal bones are discovered in abundance.
http://www.zetatalk3.com/usenet/use90591.htm
“...A great many facts point to rapid, catastrophic burial of the plants and animals which are found as fossils today.
Fossil caves, fissures, mass burial sites, and sedimentary strata discovered in Europe and America were jammed with masses of mixed bones of many sorts of animals from widely separated and differing climatic zones, for example:[16 Cumberland Cavern in Maryland, containing remains of animals from cold northern regions, warm, damp semi-tropical regions, and from more arid environments, Norfolk
forest-beds in England, which contain remains of temperate zone plants, and large numbers of both northern cold-climate and tropical warm-climate animals, all mixed together, rock fissures in England and France contain masses of broken bones of many kinds of animals from both cold and temperate zones...”
> Is there a web site to go to if someone wants to be registered?
In Canada I registered thru the Red Cross, as they had jurisdiction for blood and all blood-related products there.
In the US? Lemme check, standby for a mo (checks his handy-dandy browser...)
www.marrow.org looks like a likely place to start, in the US. I’d start by asking your Doctor or GP or health professional, or phone your local public hospital. They are sure to have the right info for your area.
Here in NZ it is run by the various government-funded regional health service providers, who are all linked up internationally. IMO you probably want to be hooked up to the international network, as it provides maximum coverage.
I chose to become a donor in honor of a friend of mine, a fireman whose eldest son needed bone marrow when he became ill with leukemia. Unfortunately I was not a match, and even more unfortunately my friend’s son died without a suitable donor.
The more folk that register, the more likely that there will be a match, somewhere in the world.
*DieHard*
:-( I guess I don’t feel it but I’m over 60 and I’m a cancer survivor so they don’t want me. Thanks though. I’ll just send some money.
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