Scouts Divided (over homosexuality in ranks)

Trading Post 13 last Tuesday, a sweltering morning during the 15th Boy Scouts Jamboree at Fort A.P. Hill near Fredericksburg, Va. Despite the heat wave, over the next 10 days they would help 32,000 other Scouts burn through 76,000 hamburgers, 479,000 eggs, 10 tons of beef stew--and countless hours energetically addressing a controversy that will not fade. "In the Bible, it's a sin to be gay," said Moran, 15, as the sun glinted off his dyed blue hair. Keep them out of scouting? "Exactly," he declared. Fifteen-year-old Greg Gutta Jr. was sympathetic. "They say everybody should have the right to be in the Scouts, but everybody has the right to feel comfortable, too," he said. "A lot of people don't feel comfortable around homosexuals."

Yet within Troop 1320, as in many scouting gatherings around the country, there is no easy consensus. Noah Kinney, a shy 15-year-old, challenged his friends. He knows a few gays back home and thinks they're OK. "I think as long as they stay off of you, they're fine, that's all." Other troop members nodded, even Gutta, despite his own discomfort. "I don't think people should be kicked out for just being gay."

For the Boy Scouts of America it has been a year of such debates since last summer's Supreme Court victory handed them the legal right to exclude gay boys and leaders. In a 5-4 majority, the justices found that the group's religious foundation allowed it to set membership standards at its headquarters in Texas, even if they are at odds with the ordinances or policies on the books in 244 localities and 13 states to protect lesbians and gay men from discrimination.

More evidence of the "fruit" of the gay agenda.

Myself, I would never knowingly have my sons "led" by a homosexual man. I am concerned about modeling, abuse, and a breakdown in moral standards.

The article alleges that there is no increase in possibility of molestation when camping overnight with a homosexual leader. I find that really hard to believe.

It also says other similar groups are gaining membership but I have hear for years the Girls Scouts have dwindled steadily since they dropped their "faith in God" requirement.

I was at one time in the BSA. Homosexuals have no place in the organization, period. One thing in mind, for a couple of years I went to Summer camp at Camp Ransburg near Bloomington, IN. One thing I remembered was there were separate shower facilities for the kids and adults. I understand it very clearly today but didn't at the time.

What I remembered at the time, there was the troop shower facility near the main area of the site. They were two separate big rooms and a bathroom facility in the middle. In fact the bathroom had one flushable toilet. The campsites had "holes in the ground". A lot of times when the need would arise, I would go to the troop showers to use the flushable toilet and about 50% of the time, it would be occupied. I have to say, the "one and only" flushable toilet was a "popular" place especially after meals.

When I went to Summer camp there it was the borderline 1970's/1980's. I went there about 8 years ago when I was visiting Bloomington. I decided to take a drive to the camp and walked around. Some things changed. The shower facility that I remembered was gone and they had a new one. I did not go into the new one especially being an adult versus a teenager at the time. I also went to the camp site that we stayed at - it looked a little bit different - looked more wooded than back in 1980 where it was more open. We were not too far from the lake what I remembered. One thing I remembered, it was fun. One thing I remembered was walking by the mess hall in 2000 - same place and I walked passed the kitchen, it had the same smell coming out and even though it was 20 years later at the time, it felt like I was there as a kid instead as an adult. Kind of funny how smells play tricks on your mind.

Back on tangent, there has to be rules where the kids are protected. Now, I usher at church and one of our jobs is taking kids in the 3 to 5 year old range to the bathroom. There are always two adults. In fact when I do the bathroom runs, I will not enter the bathroom for any reason, period. Usually the both of us will stand far from the door but at the same time, keep our ears tuned in to know what is going on inside. That is also why I would not walk into the facility at Ransburg even to see what changed compared to my day. I was curious what changed such as did they go to private shower stalls or stay with the "big room" concept. One additional note, the dorm I lived in when I was doing my undergrad was built in 1965 and it had a big shower room. I visited there last year and after they remodeled the place. They redid it where it became individual shower stalls.

Another note, I was in California from Thus until today. I was in Davis for several days and at this time of the year, it gets pretty toasty. I would do some bike riding from the morning until around 2 pm and then I would go to the UC Davis Rec Pool. When I was there yesterday, I done swimming and went to take a shower. The people using the pool were not only university students but also members of the local community. When I took a shower, I kept the suit on since the shower would get the chlorine water out. A father and his two boys came in and took their showers as well. They stripped down so to show my respect, I looked away. The shower was a big room as well.

You are correct.

I don't know if the article is intentionally trying to mislead or what, but as far as I know, the Boy Scouts does not ask or ban boys who claim to be homosexual from being a Boy Scout. The Boy Scouts ban on homosexuality has to do with it's leadership. That being said, aside from our yearly abuse/safety talk with the boys, the topic of homosexuality isn't discussed.

I am a leader (committee member) of my boys Scout troop, and that is how I understand it. One thing that gets constantly reviewed for us leaders is the two depth leadership rule. It is not just for the boys safety, but for ours as well. If a leader puts him or herself in a situation that even looks compromising, it can lead to trouble.

One other side note: if there are only two adult leaders and one of the leaders has to escort a Scout somewhere, we are required to bring along another Scout. This minimizes the problems of a “he said-he said” problem.

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