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My Review of "The Dark Knight"
7-21-08 | pcottraux

Posted on 07/21/2008 8:49:13 PM PDT by pcottraux

The Dark Knight Review

There has never been a movie quite like “The Dark Knight,” Christopher Nolan’s much-anticipated sequel to his reboot of the Batman franchise, “Batman Begins.” While that first film was certainly a great picture, this movie may forever change the genre. It is nothing like the hoards of generic comic book movies that come out this time of year. And unlike so many typical comic book films, it actually produces something for everybody. Spectacular action sequences? Check. A gripping storyline? Check. Heartbreaking romance? Check. Oscar-worthy acting by an A-list cast? Check. Gorgeous visuals and cinematography? Check. Bottom line, this is more than just “the next Batman movie;” it is a riveting motion picture.

What we are presented with is less of a superhero movie and more of a gripping crime drama that just happens to have a protagonist dressed up like a bat and an antagonist dressed up like a clown. It owes more to films like Martin Scorcese’s “The Departed” or Michael Mann’s “Heat” than Spider-Man or Superman. But the movie also charts into far deeper waters than this genre has gone before. As Gordon warns Batman early on, “Things will get ugly.” He’s right. Choices have consequences. Characters make mistakes that end up costing them dearly. Sacrifices have to be made. The film examines the role heroes (and villains) play in modern society, but does so in a way that is mature, poetic, and unrelentingly heartbreaking.

The plot, which manages to be both labyrinth and simple, moves at a brisk pace. Try to avoid trips to the bathroom if possible. It begins by showcasing a potentially bright future for Gotham City. Batman (Christian Bale), who saved the city from total annihilation at the end of “Begins,” is becoming a legend. His trusted friend, Lieutenant Jim Gordon (Gary Oldman), sometimes shines the Bat-signal not to attract the hero, but as a warning to criminals everywhere. A newly appointed District Attorney named Harvey Dent is fearlessly taking the mafia head-on. Seeing such hope and promise in the streets, Bruce Wayne begins to see a future where he can hang up the cape and finally live a normal life. He hopes Dent can replace him in the public’s eye as the city’s savior. He even sees an opportunity to be with the woman he loves, Rachel Dawes (Maggie Gyllenhaal, infinitely better than Katie Holmes this go-round), although her involvement with Dent complicates things.

Then, out of nowhere, a sinister figure known as the Joker emerges and begins wreaking havoc the likes of which Gotham has never seen before. He begins his unclear intentions by announcing that if Batman does not turn himself in immediately, the streets will run red with blood. And he does in fact make good on his promise, raising the stakes with each passing night. The city may need its dark protector now more than ever.

“The Dark Knight” trumps all the previous Batman movies, even its well-made predecessor. Tim Burton’s first two movies buried the Batman in excessive gothic visuals and German expressionism, at the cost of a coherent story or any kind of relatable character development. Joel Schumacher’s sequels were even worse, replacing the darkness with colorful neon lights and fetishistic rubber suits (and still with no character development). Nolan’s take on the Gotham City and its masked hero is based on gritty realism, which is far more consistent with the source material. After all, Batman has no super powers, so it should only make sense that the world around him somewhat resembles our own. In this movie, the director delves even deeper into the city’s cracks and crevices, showing not only Batman’s heroics and the Joker’s evil actions, but the effect it has on ordinary citizens. This makes Gotham more immersive than we’ve ever seen on-screen.

The performances are spot-on, all of them. Gary Oldman’s James Gordon is one of the shining examples. I was pleased that Gordon was given a greater role than ever in “Batman Begins,” but here, his part is far deeper and more emotional than we expect. Aaron Eckhart also flawlessly captures the tragic downfall of Harvey Dent from crusading hero to horrifying villain (anyone with even the slightest knowledge of Batman lore knows Dent’s gruesome fate). Eckhart and Gyllenhaal, who have great chemistry together, successfully make the movie’s first act feel like an engaging law firm thriller, before the epic tragedy of the second act starts setting in. Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman, who could play great characters in their sleep, both effortlessly bring us roles that surprise us with their insight. Alfred provides an emotional anchor for Bruce, while Freeman does something more than develop his gadgets; in fact, by the end, he is forced to make a relevant ethical choice that most superhero movies would shy away from.

Bale’s portrayal of Bruce Wayne/Batman is likely to be considered the most definitive. He almost seems to be channeling his role of Patrick Bateman from “American Psycho.” Bruce is able to be intense and brooding while he’s alone, while still putting on the show of a clueless butthead in front of the public. We also see his detective side more than ever. However, what’s more intriguing is Batman himself; we start to see that Alfred’s warning of Bruce “getting lost inside this monster” may be coming true. Batman is becoming more ruthless in his war on crime. He’s coming closer to crossing the fine line he treads each night. He breaks bones. His methods of tracking down the Joker become surprisingly Machiavellian. In his drive to protect the city, he may be losing site of his original intentions, and we can certainly see a future for him becoming the kind of guy he was in Frank Miller’s “The Dark Knight Returns.”

However, it is Heath Ledger’s Joker that everyone will leave the theater talking about, and for good reason. This is one of the most terrifying performances in film history, rivaling such cinematic greats as Hannibal Lecter, Norman Bates, and Anton Chigurh. Jack Nicholson’s version looks like Mr. Rogers by comparison. This is a frighteningly depraved lunatic in perverse clown makeup, who often pops up in unexpected places, with no possible explanation of how he got there, ready to slaughter whomever me meets. Often (this is one of the movie’s best masterstrokes), the only warning of his approaching is a faint violin theme, reminiscent of the shark from “Jaws.” Ledger also brings an unsettling charm and unpredictability to the role; the Joker can change from schizophrenic to playful to violently enraged, sometimes at the drop of a hat. Even more chilling, though, are his motivations. “I’m like a dog chasing cars,” he quips at one point. “I wouldn’t even know what to do with one if I caught it.” Two of the movie’s key scenes, the interrogation room and the final confrontation, explore the Batman/Joker relationship better than any other past movie. It is also a haunting tragedy that this was Ledger’s last performance, as it is by far his most memorable, and shows where he could have gone as an actor.

And what are we left with? A movie that makes no compromises, sticks to its guns, and leaves us haunted by its affecting outcome. Rather than the usual hero-saves-the-day-and-flies-off-into-the-sunset climax, we are left with an ending that is as unyielding as it is painful and personal. Nothing is resolved, other than the fact that the damage done may be permanent; but the fight will continue regardless. There are few movies I can say that I am truly grateful to the filmmakers for making, but “The Dark Knight” is one of them. If there has never been a comic book film like this before, here’s to hoping that there will be many more to come.


TOPICS: TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: batman; darkknight; hollywood; moviereview
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Another note: many have been making a big deal of how dark the movie is. Personally, I didn't think there was anything in it that warranted more than the PG-13 rating. Most kids likely see more violent stuff in the video games they play nowadays anyway. I wouldn't take a particularly young kid, but anyone from the 9-13 age should be fine.
1 posted on 07/21/2008 8:49:13 PM PDT by pcottraux
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To: pcottraux; new cruelty; Jack Deth; Fledermaus; Mr. Blonde; MikeD

Ping.

Sorry the review is so late, but I had to see it twice to really absorb it all. Lol. Will probably see it many more times. I’ve seen it both in IMAX and regular format. Although only the action scenes were filmed in IMAX, I definitely recommend the experience, as long as the theater you go to isn’t dome-shaped.


2 posted on 07/21/2008 8:52:01 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: pcottraux

Did the movie makers refrain themselves from inserting liberal messages? Indiana Jones 4, for instance, opens with an anti-communist situation in the 1950s which no doubt was a reference to ‘Islamo-phobia’ today (although the movie itself shows that the communist Russians were the bad guys).


3 posted on 07/21/2008 8:58:18 PM PDT by paudio (Like it or not, 'conservatism' is a word with many meanings. Yours may be different from mine.)
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To: pcottraux

We took our 11 year old twin daughters, and our 13 year old son. Hubby and I thought the girls were too young.

However, they all liked the movie, and no one had nightmares.

Hubby and I were uncomfortable with them watching it. The Joker is very menacing.


4 posted on 07/21/2008 8:58:36 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: paudio

If anything, it seemed more conservative.


5 posted on 07/21/2008 8:59:07 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: pcottraux
I thought it was good, but not great.

SPOILER ALERT!

Many things were good, but of the bad:

- No setup as to the kidnapping of Dent and Dawes and then dropped right into the interrogation room.
- Batman's philosophy that makes him accept blame for killings that he had no hand in, to absolve a criminal, was stupid, at best. Especially since this means the world should hate him for those crimes. The city wasn't fragile enough to “need” the killer as a godly icon.
- Multiple places where things just seemed disjointed and without explanation.
- Batman told the Joker, unequivocally, that no one on the boats would bush the buttons. How was he so sure? Did he have a special antenna dampener that would guarantee it we were never aware of? How likely is it that Batman, who saw himself and other “good guys” go beyond the norm (Batman in the interrogation room just beat the crud out of the Joker) when there wasn't a good enough reason for that, would know that 1,000 people wouldn't blow up the other boat when there were criminals on it?
- How did Batman, in the course of maybe a half-day, re-engineer the sonar phone thing to blanket Gotham's “30 million cell phones”, when his top engineer took untold months and didn't appear to share the schematics with Batman? Batman is 5 million times smarter than his engineer, and can put up 200 televisions to monitor it, in maybe 12 hours?

Other than these kind of things, the movie was good, and everyone did a great job with their parts.

6 posted on 07/21/2008 9:03:15 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: paudio

It could be interpreted either way, but I personally found more of a conservative message than a liberal one. The Joker was often referred to as a terrorist, and Batman clearly demonstrated standing up for what’s right and that you have to keep fighting no matter how tough things get. He also showed that, not unlike America itself, sometimes you should do the right thing no matter how unpopular it is or how much it makes everyone hate you.

OTOH, there is a moment that has a message against surveillance and/or extreme measure for the sake of security. However, it isn’t preachy about it and acknowledges that both sides of the issue are legitimate.


7 posted on 07/21/2008 9:03:44 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: pcottraux

Keep it up ‘Picotrue’ bump


8 posted on 07/21/2008 9:05:31 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: valkyry1

;-)


9 posted on 07/21/2008 9:09:37 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: pcottraux

I thought Ledger was really funny in a very twisted way.
I didn’t realize he had great comic timing.

The loss of this talented young man continues to anger me. Such a needless waste.


10 posted on 07/21/2008 9:14:09 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: pcottraux

Nice job!


11 posted on 07/21/2008 9:19:12 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: pcottraux
Everyone play a clip of Jack Benny on You Tube and you can see where Heath Ledger got his Joker from (throw in a little Jack Lemmon, as the reviewer from the Wall Street Jorrnal put it) There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just sayin'...

He was great...but after watching the movie, he was in about 25 minutes or so, by my estimation. And the whole cell phone thing was not only incredibly stupid, it was a naked, yet failed, attempt at impugning the Bush Admininstration with a comparison that makes no real sense whatsoever. Take that part out of the movie, and it is still too long. With that plotz-line forced in there like a fat guy in a theater seat, it becomes intolerable, especially in a 97-degree movie theater.

12 posted on 07/21/2008 9:21:31 PM PDT by Captainpaintball
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To: pcottraux

Good review.


13 posted on 07/21/2008 9:33:46 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: Captainpaintball

It wasn’t THAT bad. I thought it was kind of silly at first, until it came to the conclusion of the Morgan Freeman character having to come to a major ethical decision. I also don’t think they were necessarily impugning the Bush Administration...Machiavellian ideas have existed long before the Patriot Act, and I think there’s something chilling about the idea of Bruce Wayne implemented it in his drive to save Gotham. If they were targeting modern day issues, I think they were demonstrating that the issue is complicated, without a clear right or wrong answer. After all, Batman DID catch the Joker with it. The cost was great, but they did achieve victory.


14 posted on 07/21/2008 9:36:44 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: CaptainK

Great as his performance was, there was something very sad about watching it, knowing that we’ll never again see what he was capable of. I had heard he was signed on for another Batman movie...as this may be the definitive on-screen Joker, it is just depressing to think that we won’t see him again.


15 posted on 07/21/2008 9:42:07 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: pcottraux

Excellently written review. I don’t do movies but I’ll go to this one based on this.

Give me your home number so I can call and ask for my money back if it sucks ;-)


16 posted on 07/21/2008 9:46:10 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Barack Hussein Obama=Jimmy Carter Part Douche)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Uh-oh.

555-5555.


17 posted on 07/21/2008 9:52:01 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: pcottraux; All

About the movie image from Heath Ledger. Only G-d knows why such a brief life/career can resonate with so many people.

I think we all look a lot like the joker before his eyes, and yet he loves us still.

Regards


18 posted on 07/21/2008 9:56:18 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: valkyry1
I think we all look a lot like the joker before his eyes, and yet he loves us still.

That brought tears to my eyes!

19 posted on 07/21/2008 10:01:34 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: CaptainK

Yes, he could always have done “Brokeback II”...


20 posted on 07/21/2008 10:13:26 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: pcottraux

I’m hoping to get back to the states so I can see the movie a week early, but I’m very jealous of the many many people who have already seen it (9 records broken I believe). I talked to one of my friends about it and he said his roommate was mad at him when they talked about it right after the movie. He said it was going to take a little bit to wrap his head around it. When the roommate finally saw it he said the same thing.

I think the commentator on WWTDD.com has it right about Heath Ledger and his abilities in general and in this movie. Everything is amazing that he does in this movie. And before there were like 7 good actors in Hollywood and now there are 6. Of course, this has 5 actors in it that are all amazing. Bale and Oldman are always golden. Ledger was just coming in to his own. And you can’t ever discount Freeman and Caine.


21 posted on 07/21/2008 10:42:57 PM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: pcottraux

//That brought tears to my eyes!

Then we hear each other


22 posted on 07/21/2008 10:44:02 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: ConservativeMind
I thought it was good, but not great.

Ditto. I was prepared for it not to be as good as the hype, but I was not prepared for the performance of Heath Ledger to be SO overrated. I'm sorry, folks, but it just didn't scream "Oscar" at me the way, say, Tommy Lee Jones' performance in The Fugitive did or Ian McDiarmid's masterful turn in Revenge of The Sith as Chancellor Palpatine/Darth Sidious. (To its everlasting shame, the Academy failed to nominate McDiarmid, but he won a Tony Award the following year).

Nevertheless, I seem to be in the minority in thinking Ledger's coda was not legendary. Director Christopher Nolan and Warner Bros. have got a real problem on their hands -- will they be forced to factor The Joker out of the next sequel because nobody will try to step into Ledger's shoes? Wired Online is saying that some are suggesting Daniel Day-Lewis, which makes sense to me. It would be an upgrade -- even if Ledger posthumously wins a Best Supporting Actor Oscar, Day-Lewis has two Best Actor statuettes already.

-- SPOILER ALERT! --

- No setup as to the kidnapping of Dent and Dawes and then dropped right into the interrogation room.

This was a BIG problem for me. Nolan lingered for a few moments on the person later deemed responsible for the abductions, but that was the only clue that something was amiss. How it actually got done is still a mystery. The movie was two and a half hours -- a few seconds of chase scenes could have been sacrificed for that!

How did Batman, in the course of maybe a half-day, re-engineer the sonar phone thing to blanket Gotham's “30 million cell phones”, when his top engineer took untold months and didn't appear to share the schematics with Batman? Batman is 5 million times smarter than his engineer, and can put up 200 televisions to monitor it, in maybe 12 hours?

The thing that kills me about all superhero movies is the elaborate design that goes into the costumes and the gadgets -- they all seem to appear from out of nowhere when in real life, they would be multi-million dollar projects employing several teams of engineers, designers, architects, electricians, contractors, and graphic designers, all sworn to silence. That was part of the charm of Pixar's The Incredibles, which had a vital subplot about costume design ("NO CAPES!") and gadget functions.

The Batman flicks of Joel Schumacher contained the worst of these excesses -- the Batmobile in Batman & Robin looked like Dick Dastardly's race car in Wacky Races, and the cycle that Robin was given looked as if it was on display as a prize in a Vegas casino. Nolan's Batman movies at least show a threadbare Batcave with emphasis on function, appearing more like a brightly lit subway station rather than a hip nightclub with neon lights and dry ice. And thank heaven Christian Bale's batsuits don't have nipples. Whose stupid idea was THAT?

My favorite superhero movie remains Spider-Man 2 (I felt ripped off at the end of Spidey 3, and nobody applauded in the crowded theater at the end). Number two: The Incredibles. But if RoboCop was a comic book before it was a movie, that would be tops in my book. And while I did like The [Long] Dark Knight, it's not the best movie I've seen this year. That would be Pixar's WALL-E.

Yeah, I know, some conservatives have a bone to pick with WALL-E. I do too, but not enough to negate the brilliance of the film.

23 posted on 07/22/2008 1:20:03 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Giorgio Armani Hates Barack Obama, The World's NEW Favorite Empty Suit)
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To: pcottraux
I disagreed with the rating - was actually surprised to hear that it was "PG-13" and not "R". This was a very violent movie, IMHO.

There were a couple of scenes that made me wince and say "GAaa! I can't believe they DID that!". And I'm not typically squeamish.

But, it was an excellent movie as well. Certainly the best I've seen in the past couple of years. Just not for kids.

24 posted on 07/22/2008 6:00:52 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Secret Agent Man

Are you KIDDING me? The Brokeback jokes got old years ago, and with his passing, I find it to be in very poor taste.


25 posted on 07/22/2008 6:16:38 AM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I guess he could have.


26 posted on 07/22/2008 8:09:25 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: Mr. Blonde; pcottraux

//you can’t ever discount Freeman and Caine//

Wow they are in it??

I have been a M. Caine fan all the way back from ‘The Man who would be King’


27 posted on 07/22/2008 8:48:48 AM PDT by valkyry1
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To: valkyry1

Yes. Michael Caine is Alfred and Freeman is Lucius Fox.


28 posted on 07/22/2008 8:59:17 AM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: pcottraux

Wow. Great review! I still haven’t seen the movie but your review has the hair on my arm standing up... then again that could be the A/C, it is a bit cold in here.

Thanks for sharing your point of view.


29 posted on 07/22/2008 9:02:59 AM PDT by new cruelty (don't believe the hype)
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To: new cruelty; pcottraux

If I might be so audacious, I think our PicoTrue might have some Matt Drudge potential in him :-)!


30 posted on 07/22/2008 9:28:12 AM PDT by valkyry1
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To: Secret Agent Man

Brokeback II: Electric Buggeroo?


31 posted on 07/22/2008 10:04:06 AM PDT by weegee (Obama loves America like Bill loves Hillary.)
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To: pcottraux

Best review I’ve read yet. Seriously, if you aren’t a professional reviewer/writer, you should consider becoming one.

One comment: “If there has never been a comic book film like this before, here’s to hoping that there will be many more to come.” I doubt this will happen. Frankly, I don’t see how they could possibly meet the high bar they’ve set here in the next one. Here’s hoping I’m wrong...


32 posted on 07/22/2008 10:06:57 AM PDT by piytar
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To: piytar; valkyry1; new cruelty

Thanks, guys. I’m blushing. Lol.

I do have aspirations to be a professional writer, but probably not a movie critic. While I would love reviewing great films like The Dark Knight, the thought of all the horrible movies I’d have to endure gives me hesitance.

I loved Batman, but it’s hard to look past all the Love Guru’s.


33 posted on 07/22/2008 1:45:32 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: pcottraux

I find your offense to be in poor taste of my offense.


34 posted on 07/22/2008 1:55:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: weegee

Some people here aren’t happy that those of us with a memory bring up his prior role. He was a big boy, he was an actor who chose his roles, people here were not regarding him as a hero for doing it. Just because he did a good role in his final performance (a psycho role that apparently we all must be fascinated in now) he is untouchable.

Very interesting.


35 posted on 07/22/2008 1:59:01 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Some people here aren’t happy that those of us with a memory bring up his prior role. He was a big boy, he was an actor who chose his roles, people here were not regarding him as a hero for doing it. Just because he did a good role in his final performance (a psycho role that apparently we all must be fascinated in now) he is untouchable.

Very interesting.

What a sick, self-righteous thing to say. It's not a matter of whether or not he's "untouchable", nor is it a matter of how great his final performance was (and it WAS great). It's a matter of the fact that he's no longer with us. Yes, he chose his own roles, but that's not the point...the point is that you were making a joke about it. If I thought you said that with legitimate seriousness in mind, I wouldn't have been bothered by it, but the fact that you make cheap jokes about a performance from 3 years ago about an actor who's passed is, like I said...very poor taste.

R. Lee Ermey played a gay character in a movie once. He even had an on-screen kiss with a man. If he passed away, and we were on a thread talking about him in a way that honored his memory, would you show up and start making gay jokes about him, too?

36 posted on 07/22/2008 2:06:03 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: ConservativeMind

Actually the kidnapping of Dent and Dawes are setup but it’s really subtle. The camera lingers over long on Dent’s driver who is the first cop he kills later, and it shows the the cop that kidnapped Dawes making contact with her.

Part of Batman accepting that blame is because he blames himself for what happened to Dent. Remember he’d hooked a lot of his hope for a normal life on Dent becoming the moral leader of the city. He felt he let Dent down, so now he takes the blame for Dent’s crimes to keep that moral leader pristine and to absolve his failure. Remember Batman is driven by accepting blame on an emotional level. He blames himself for the death of his parents, and now for he fall of Dent.

Batman was sure no one would push the buttons because he believes in the city and its people. Same reason Joker said they WOULD push the buttons, belief in people’s moral character. Also given how much time had passed you could make a good argument that if somebody was going to push a button they would have already.

I think it was a lot more than half a day. They aren’t really explicit with the time line but there’s at least a few days in there from when the Joker become really public, there’s a whole state funeral in there, and who knows how long between the Hong Kong trip (when Batman find out about the cellphone sonar) and Joker going big.


37 posted on 07/22/2008 2:06:03 PM PDT by boogerbear
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To: pcottraux

First I don’t know who R Lee Ermey is.

Second, you need to unclench. You’re the kind of person who likes to take small little thing and try to blow it up to Titanic proportions, like the offense is actually yours.

This was a batman review thread. In it someone made a comment about all the films Ledger would never be able to do. I mentioned he’d never be able to do a Brokeback II. that is accurate, and someone like you, with your preconceived bias and prejudices read something into it and act like the offense is yours.

Were you a Ledger fan BEFORE the Joker? Were you out there saying what an awesome human being he was because he was in Brokeback?

Unclench.


38 posted on 07/22/2008 2:13:36 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
First I don’t know who R Lee Ermey is.

He's a former US Marine and Vietnam vet who's now an actor. He was in Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket" and hosts "Mail Call" on the History Channel.

Second, you need to unclench. You’re the kind of person who likes to take small little thing and try to blow it up to Titanic proportions, like the offense is actually yours.

How do you know what "kind of person" I am? You've never even met me. When I see someone who's died being, what seems to me, being made fun of, I'm going to defend them.

That is a personal attack and judgment that I do not feel like I deserve.

This was a batman review thread. In it someone made a comment about all the films Ledger would never be able to do. I mentioned he’d never be able to do a Brokeback II. that is accurate

It is very, very hard for me to believe that you were being serious about that comment and weren't just trying to make a cheap joke, and post 35 further verifies that. If you come out and factually state that you weren't, I will apologize for the misunderstanding.

But it wasn't that, it was what you said in post 35 that irked me. And I criticized you for it.

Were you a Ledger fan BEFORE the Joker? Were you out there saying what an awesome human being he was because he was in Brokeback?

What difference does it make? I have friends, who I happened to meet at different places; church, work, etc. If one of them died, would I be less upset if they had died before I met them? Of course I would. Who cares?

And no, I didn't know much about him while he was doing Brokeback, but I never understood the extreme overreaction to that movie that I saw. I feel now, and at the time, that it was just a movie, and nothing to get upset over.

39 posted on 07/22/2008 3:10:33 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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To: ConservativeMind
- No setup as to the kidnapping of Dent and Dawes and then dropped right into the interrogation room.

Not needed. The movie had several other major events with no foreshadowing; why would this one require it, too?

Batman's philosophy that makes him accept blame for killings that he had no hand in, to absolve a criminal, was stupid, at best. Especially since this means the world should hate him for those crimes. The city wasn't fragile enough to “need” the killer as a godly icon.

Agreed. That whole thing felt really contrived. Batman does not kill, period. Why he would accept blame is beyond me.

- Multiple places where things just seemed disjointed and without explanation.

Not sure I know what you mean here, to be honest.

Batman told the Joker, unequivocally, that no one on the boats would bush the buttons. How was he so sure?

I doubt he was. It was as much his hope that they wouldn't as it was the Joker's hope that they would.

- How did Batman, in the course of maybe a half-day, re-engineer the sonar phone thing to blanket Gotham's “30 million cell phones”, when his top engineer took untold months and didn't appear to share the schematics with Batman?

I don't know where you're getting the "half-day" thing from. There wasn't any real indicator of how much time he was working on that project. Plus, since the very concept of such a device working like that is absurd, it really doesn't matter.

40 posted on 07/22/2008 3:30:44 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (How 'bout a magic trick? I'm gonna make this pencil disappear...Ta-dah!)
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To: pcottraux; Captainpaintball

Well, even if they were trying to impugn the Bush Administration and the Patriot Act and the wiretap controversy, the helluvit was that Batman still used it to catch the bad guy. Hmmm....


41 posted on 07/22/2008 3:33:32 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (How 'bout a magic trick? I'm gonna make this pencil disappear...Ta-dah!)
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To: pcottraux

Y’know, this is nuts. Just don’t bother to respond to me anymore.


42 posted on 07/22/2008 5:17:00 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Fair enough.


43 posted on 07/22/2008 5:30:43 PM PDT by pcottraux (I can't tell the difference between Carl Cameron, Chris Wallace, or Bill McCuddy.)
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Not everything is a veiled conspiracy against the Bush Administration, even in Hollyweird.

The movie was absolutely awesome. I'm going to see it again tomorrow.

Spoiler Alert***********

My biggest regret is that 2-Face won't be back as a later villian. He deserves a shot.

44 posted on 07/22/2008 5:30:54 PM PDT by evad (.!.)
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To: Future Snake Eater
Interesting how different people see different things in the same movie.

In the end, Batman made the righteous choice of turning on that surveillance equipment before “burning the forest” to stop the Joker. Batman may have been conflicted throughout, but in the end his final choice — where we leave him when the credits roll — is the choice of a man who has worked through all the moral conflict and had decided on a path he knows to be the righteous one. So right, in fact, that his final sacrifice doesn’t involve even a moment of hand wringing.


Dirty Harry's Place

45 posted on 07/22/2008 5:44:26 PM PDT by Bratch ("The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." --- Edmund Burke)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I saw FMJ twice. The first time it scared me & the second time I laughed at it.


46 posted on 07/22/2008 6:28:48 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: pcottraux

I thought the scene where Bruce was going to quit and Harvey says he’s Batman shows this trend as you described in your first paragraph.

The media, ie “population”, is starting to think that maybe Batman is too high a price to pay now. They forget how awful it was before him and now take the lightened crime as a solution and thus he’s no longer needed because, god forbid, someone might get waterboarded at Guantamano.


47 posted on 07/22/2008 8:46:23 PM PDT by Fledermaus (McCain is just socialist-lite. I'm not playing the "lesser of two evils" game any more!)
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To: pcottraux

I’ll give more of my thoughts after I see it again this weekend.

One thing I noticed as a theme throughout was “trust”. Both Dent (to Gordon) and Bruce (to Fox) mentioned they were holding this “close to the chest”. Bruce is cooking the books and making/acquiring technology to help his efforts. And he only works directly with Gordon so Dent wasn’t brought into the plan to expose the Joker at the commissioners memorial.

And I found it interesting he shows Fox what he did with the sonar technology (this was set up earlier as mentioned above when it was revealed Bruce was working on cell tech) as Batman and not Wayne. He’s starting to separate the two more while also merging them in some aspects.

Aflred is kind of pushing him along while Fox wants to maybe hold back some. I think both of these will play in the next movie. Alfred isn’t going anywhere and Fox will stay put.

I hope to see more progress next to show how Bruce, like the hideaway in the private junk property they used, uses more Wayne assets to get connectors all through the city. Even Shumacher in his first crappy movie showed Val Kilmer going from his office to the batcave in a pod.

But then Bale did drive a Lamborgani (sp)! lol

And BTW, I wonder what happens to that Wayne employee that “knows” who Batman is. And if Fox is so smart why were those plans not under lock with only his access? Hmmmm.


48 posted on 07/22/2008 8:59:49 PM PDT by Fledermaus (McCain is just socialist-lite. I'm not playing the "lesser of two evils" game any more!)
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To: paudio

I posted this on an earlier thread....

I thought that the movie was perhaps, one of the most political movies I have seen in years.

Once you get past the storytelling itself, you end up with the following set of archetypes.

Batman is Order.

The Joker is Chaos.

Two Face is Chance.

I think the movie is making a huge political statement.

Evil must be confronted. Soldiers must fight it.

Chaos is at our door, it cannot be appeased or negotiated with, it needs to be smashed.

Chance is always with you. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

And finally, and most importantly, a real hero never needs to take credit for all that goes well, and accepts the blame for things he didn’t even do in order for Order to persevere.

I could go on and on about the allegories to the War we now fight, from concerns about electronic spying, rules of engagement, a nay-saying press, rendition of prisoners and on and on.

This movie was a huge risk for the Director. Once you peel away the crashes and explosions, it is a parable of the need to stand strong in the face of evil and of self sacrifice in the name of a greater good.

I’m stuned this ever got made in Hollyweird.

Cheers,

knewshound

www.knewshound.blogspot.com


49 posted on 07/22/2008 9:02:51 PM PDT by knews_hound (Why am I here? And why do I have this handbasket?)
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To: Future Snake Eater; pcottraux
Well, even if they were trying to impugn the Bush Administration and the Patriot Act and the wiretap controversy, the helluvit was that Batman still used it to catch the bad guy. Hmmm....

That's because the media had no idea Wayne was doing it!

50 posted on 07/22/2008 9:19:29 PM PDT by Captainpaintball
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