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At Thomas Jefferson, 2.8 Is Tantamount to Failure
Washington Post ^ | Saturday, July 26, 2008 | Jay Mathews

Posted on 07/26/2008 6:29:39 AM PDT by Amelia

Matthew Nuti finished 10th grade at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology with much to be proud of. He excelled in oratory on the Model United Nations team. He was a starting lineman in junior varsity football. His English teacher complimented his classroom wit. Like virtually all students at the very selective public magnet school in Fairfax County, he scored near the top on the Virginia state Standards of Learning exams.

Oh, and he had a 2.8 grade point average for the school year. At most schools, that would be a B-minus, not too bad, but at Jefferson it has just gotten him expelled...This month administrators told five sub-3.0 students, including Matthew, that they would have to switch to neighborhood schools.

...TJ draws students from Fairfax, Arlington, Loudoun, Prince William and Fauquier counties and the city of Falls Church. Measured by the SAT, it has the nation's highest-scoring public school students. Its Class of 2007 had an average score of 1495 on the SAT reading and math tests. The next-highest average scores were 1409 at the University Laboratory High School in Urbana, Ill., and 1405 at Stuyvesant High School in New York, selective magnet schools that do not set a GPA minimum....

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Society
KEYWORDS: education; fairfaxcounty; school
Student says it's his history teacher's fault. THE MOTHER ACTUALLY GAVE THE TEACHER A PRIVACY WAIVER TO COMMENT! History teacher shows the student didn't turn in all his work, and wouldn't come in for extra help because "he was too busy with Model United Nations, sports and the yearbook"...
1 posted on 07/26/2008 6:29:40 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Gabz; SoftballMominVA; abclily; aberaussie; albertp; AliVeritas; Amelia; A_perfect_lady; ...

Public Education Ping

This list is for intellectual discussion of articles and issues related to public education (including charter schools) from the preschool to university level. Items more appropriately placed on the “Naughty Teacher” list, “Another reason to Homeschool” list, or of a general public-school-bashing nature will not be pinged. If you would like to be on or off this list, please freepmail Amelia, Gabz, Shag377, or SoftballMominVa
2 posted on 07/26/2008 6:30:48 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia

He’ll get straight A’s at another school, and get a football scholarship, and drive by his old school and throw his shoes on its steps...

This is an example of a negative becoming a huge positive...

Of course, this is America, and the parents will want to file a lawsuit and make him a cause celebre...


3 posted on 07/26/2008 6:33:45 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be at least a "Jackie Robinson.")
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To: Amelia

Let me ask all of you this:

Would you rather be a country mouse or a city mouse? Would you rather be a big fish in a small pond, a big fish in a big pond, a small fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a big pond....?


4 posted on 07/26/2008 6:35:14 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be at least a "Jackie Robinson.")
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To: nikos1121

I would rather be at the other end of the fishing pole


5 posted on 07/26/2008 6:39:15 AM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: Amelia

A couple of years ago, an MIT recruiter said they would only accept 2 students/year from TJ.

So it may be good for the kid to go elsewhere.


6 posted on 07/26/2008 6:41:14 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: verga

Is that the answer you’d give your kid? Try again...:-)


7 posted on 07/26/2008 6:44:59 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be at least a "Jackie Robinson.")
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To: nikos1121
"He’ll get straight A’s at another school, and get a football scholarship, and drive by his old school and throw his shoes on its steps..."

If he can do that then more power to him. He sounds like a good kid (not a great kid but a good kid). The school is not obligated to take him though and they should not have to water down their standards.

I did not read the entire article but only the excerpt. I hope you're wrong about the parents suing. I don't see what grounds they would have anyway. You either pull a 3.0 or you don't.

8 posted on 07/26/2008 6:45:36 AM PDT by Artemis Webb ( OBAMA/HUCKABEE '08)
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To: Amelia

if you scroll down and read what courses that he did well in, and those not,

the logical conclusion is that this kid has talent to be a journalist!

/s


9 posted on 07/26/2008 6:46:10 AM PDT by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: patton
I went to a very prestigious public school where the attrition rate was better than 50% over the 6 years I was there. There was an expectation that you did your work and if you couldn't cut it then you were free to go somewhere else where less was expected of you.

Glad I stuck it out and did what I needed to do. Life isn't for quitters and successful people don't accomplish anything by taking the easier path. I didn't finish at the top of my class by any means but I turned out a lot better than kids who went to easier schools.

10 posted on 07/26/2008 6:49:27 AM PDT by misterrob (Obama-Does America Need Another Jimmy Carter?)
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To: Amelia

Anyone who is involved in Model United Nations is not smart.


11 posted on 07/26/2008 6:51:24 AM PDT by Crawdad (I am my brother's keeper. I am not your brother's keeper.)
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To: misterrob

Of course, one would want the best education available for one’s children.

But, going to a HS like TJ, reduces your odds of getting into the top university - MIT.


12 posted on 07/26/2008 6:52:09 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: misterrob

OBTW, DLI was exactly as you describe.


13 posted on 07/26/2008 6:54:41 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: patton

I wondered into an IIT computer class one Summer to bone up on computer science when I was going into my Senior year in HS. I attended Morgan Park HS in Chicago which was a pretty good public school at the time.

I thought I’d get ahead of the others learning Quicktran or Fortran or something like that. I was like this kid in the article somewhat, into sports, and music and girls etc...And not your best student.

Anyway, I get into this class that was full of eggheads and bookworms from age 8 and up. All wearing hornrimmed glasses, some pieced together in the middle with duct tape...bad breath, bad teeth and bad mannered etc. INto themselves and their own private little world.

I was in the first row. Had my pencil in hand and ready to take down everything.

Next thing I know, one kid asks some far out question about something I’d never heard of, and then another asks another...and another counters...And for the rest of the class time, that’s what it was...students asking the prof questions. Never any actual lecture.

I snuck out at break...and never came back...

Bottom line, I was the round peg in the square hole. Those kids were on a different pathway as mine, and people like me would be holding them back...then again, they were holding me back.

I say know thyself and go with your strengths. Best thing that could ever have happened to this kid...i.e. that his parents don’t mess him up.


14 posted on 07/26/2008 6:55:28 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be at least a "Jackie Robinson.")
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To: Artemis Webb

I didn’t read the whole article either and I agree with you.

There are kids in both spectrums. Those that are smart and the system should recognize that early on and move them accordingly, and those who need a different path. We should respect that if it’s honest and not allow bullying or name calling...and bring out the best in them.


15 posted on 07/26/2008 6:57:50 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be at least a "Jackie Robinson.")
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To: Artemis Webb

Agree. I could see if he had C or something in history but it was D...in freakin’ Social Studies!!!! BTW, my wife is a Social Studies teacher and I loved Social Studies all through school, so I’m not anti-Social Studies.

Of course if he earned an A in a class or two, or even one more B it could have pulled that D up.

My question though, is if a 3.0 is mandatory, does that not make a B the equivalent of a C in that school?


16 posted on 07/26/2008 6:57:58 AM PDT by perez24 (Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.)
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To: nikos1121

Sounds like you made a good choice.


17 posted on 07/26/2008 6:58:13 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: ken21

hahhaha..


18 posted on 07/26/2008 6:58:15 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be at least a "Jackie Robinson.")
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To: patton

Why would going to TJ reduce your chances of getting into MIT?


19 posted on 07/26/2008 7:00:34 AM PDT by perez24 (Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.)
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To: perez24

Because if they admit the entire graduating class from TJ, no one else will get in.

So they made a policy to only accept two.


20 posted on 07/26/2008 7:02:47 AM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: Artemis Webb

I agree that the school needed to pull him out. The criteria was a 3.0 GPA and he didn’t meet it. He probably is a great kid, however, you are not graded on personality.

The parents really have no right to sue, they knew the policy last August and their kid didn’t make the cut. Get over it and move on!


21 posted on 07/26/2008 7:07:13 AM PDT by senorita
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To: Crawdad
Anyone who is involved in Model United Nations is not smart.

What if it is Model UN with John Bolton as the advisor?

22 posted on 07/26/2008 7:08:36 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Whale oil: the renewable biofuel for the 21st century.)
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To: KarlInOhio

That’s different.


23 posted on 07/26/2008 7:10:10 AM PDT by Crawdad (I am my brother's keeper. I am not your brother's keeper.)
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To: verga; nikos1121
I would rather be at the other end of the fishing pole

Excellent point!

Being a big fish in a small pond makes you rather a celebrity during your high school years, but you may have a bit of transition to college, where the pond is bigger and so is the average fish....

24 posted on 07/26/2008 7:10:33 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: ken21
if you scroll down and read what courses that he did well in, and those not, the logical conclusion is that this kid has talent to be a journalist!

Yes, and the other logical conclusion is that he didn't need to be at a magnet school for math and technology...

25 posted on 07/26/2008 7:12:28 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: senorita

I guarantee this is more devastating to the parents than it is to the student. He will be a success anywhere he goes to school. But parents in Northern Virginia are cutthroats about getting their kids into TJ. It’s all about the bragging rights for the parents. How can they show their faces at the cocktail parties now that their son has been kicked out? It’s a fate worse than death!


26 posted on 07/26/2008 7:34:20 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (RIP Tony Snow, great American, father, and Christian)
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To: nikos1121
He’ll get straight A’s at another school, and get a football scholarship, and drive by his old school and throw his shoes on its steps...

And probably much happier.

BTW, how did a 2.8 suddenly become a failing B-? Last I heard a 2.8 was an 88 which is clearly a B+. Of course with weighted classes it could have started out being a 1.8 (a 78 or a C+). Must be more of that new math.

27 posted on 07/26/2008 8:26:36 AM PDT by itsthejourney
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To: nikos1121
Is that the answer you’d give your kid? Try again...:-)

I had the opportunity a number of years ago to be the big fish in a big pond. My wife and I sat down and made a list of the pro's and con's including our personalities. Out of all of our friends there are only two couples not involved in a broken home situation.

All of them are making a minimum of 2x my salary, working 80 hour weeks (at least), most of their mortgages are higher tan my salary.

We knew what we wanted and chose that road instead. I am a medium sized fish in a small pond. We are active ion our Church and volunteer as ushers at the local Shakespearian theater, and live very quiet lives.

But at work when their back is to the wall and they need it solved NOW I am the guy that gets the call, but they know not to make the call to often.

It was not an easy decision to make, but it was the best decision.

:For others they have decide for themselves.

28 posted on 07/26/2008 8:38:33 AM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: Amelia
So the school has high standards that he failed to meet. Consider it a valuable lesson learned and don't repeat the mistake. Not in this country's litigious society of celebrated losers, though.
29 posted on 07/26/2008 9:15:21 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (How 'bout a magic trick? I'm gonna make this pencil disappear...Ta-dah!)
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To: nikos1121

A suburb mouse?


30 posted on 07/26/2008 9:39:41 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (I am voting for McCain because he is white.)
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To: itsthejourney
Last I heard a 2.8 was an 88 which is clearly a B+

I thought that 3.0 was a B?

31 posted on 07/26/2008 9:43:05 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (I am voting for McCain because he is white.)
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To: itsthejourney

I know that below 2.0 is a D-something.
Anyway, is a B-minus equal to a C-plus?

Is an F-sharp equal to a G-flat?
How can I tell when I run out of invisible ink?


32 posted on 07/26/2008 9:48:09 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Jeff Chandler
A suburb mouse?

1 1/2 incomes Dad is a CPM (Certified public mouse) Mom works part time at the cheese store 2 kids- Minivan and an SUV They live in a split level ranch about a 1/2 mile walk from the school.

Both kids play soccor and are active in scouting, while the daughter sings in the kids choir at church. (I got way to much time on my hands)

33 posted on 07/26/2008 10:18:26 AM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: itsthejourney

They are probably on the new 5 or 6 point scales the schools do now.


34 posted on 07/26/2008 10:39:19 AM PDT by willyd (Tickets, fines, fees, permits and inspections are synonyms for taxes)
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To: Future Snake Eater
So the school has high standards that he failed to meet. Consider it a valuable lesson learned and don't repeat the mistake. Not in this country's litigious society of celebrated losers, though.

But..but...he's a LEGACY STUDENT!! His siblings went there! /sarc

35 posted on 07/26/2008 11:01:31 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Dems_R_Losers
It’s all about the bragging rights for the parents. How can they show their faces at the cocktail parties now that their son has been kicked out? It’s a fate worse than death!

Parents like that could probably stand to miss a few cocktail parties. MADD should send TJ a thank-you bouquet. ;^)

36 posted on 07/26/2008 11:44:32 AM PDT by DesertDreamer ("I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: verga
I'm with you on that. We're medium fish in a small pond too. Best decision we ever made.

I could be making a high six-figure salary if I'd stayed on the big-firm lawyer track I was on when my first child was born. But I am not interested in making that kind of money because it involves 80-hour week (minimum!) and what's the use in having all that money if you have no time to spend it?

37 posted on 07/26/2008 12:47:32 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chase, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

High fives


38 posted on 07/26/2008 2:03:15 PM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: verga

Yep, instead of interviewing witnesses and preparing for a Monday trial, I took one of the dogs to the trainer’s, helped clean out the garage, and plan to spend a quiet evening gardening and working on the beadwork for my 19th century Crow war shirt . . . .


39 posted on 07/26/2008 2:29:13 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chase, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: itsthejourney
BTW, how did a 2.8 suddenly become a failing B-? Last I heard a 2.8 was an 88 which is clearly a B+. Of course with weighted classes it could have started out being a 1.8 (a 78 or a C+). Must be more of that new math.

On a 4 point scale, 1 is a D, 2 is a C, 3 is a B, and 4 is an A.

Been that way since I was in high school and college a zillion years ago.

40 posted on 07/26/2008 2:35:38 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: AnAmericanMother; verga

I used to be a medium fish in a small pond. Now I’m just a teacher. ;-)


41 posted on 07/26/2008 2:37:09 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia

LOL! Now you’re the Big Cheese, at least in the classroom!


42 posted on 07/26/2008 3:06:26 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chase, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Now you’re the Big Cheese, at least in the classroom!

That's one way of looking at it! :-D

43 posted on 07/26/2008 4:25:19 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: itsthejourney
Last I heard a 2.8 was an 88 which is clearly a B+

Schools in NoVa and the surrounding counties use a 6 point scale. Therefore 94-100 is an A, 86-93 is a B, so an 88 average is a B-

Not new math, just tighter grading scale

44 posted on 07/26/2008 8:46:25 PM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: nikos1121
Would you rather be a country mouse or a city mouse? Would you rather be a big fish in a small pond, a big fish in a big pond, a small fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a big pond....?

If we're talking about getting into college, I'd rather be number one in a school in rural Montana than just another really smart student in a school in Northern Virginia.

The high school I went to in Toronto was a lot like the school in this article- a bunch of kids who would have been #1 at any other school, competing tooth and nail for A's. But a lot of universities knew that a B+ average from my high school was worth as much as being #1 in most other schools.

45 posted on 07/27/2008 8:44:42 PM PDT by Citizen Blade (Batman is a Democrat. The Punisher is a Republican)
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To: verga

good answer


46 posted on 07/28/2008 7:22:22 AM PDT by nikos1121 (The first black president of the US should be at least a "Jackie Robinson.")
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To: SoftballMominVA

Central Va uses almost the identical scale


47 posted on 07/28/2008 2:22:03 PM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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