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Ignorance tries to sneak into schools
Casper Star Tribune ^ | Saturday, August 2, 2008 | AL HAMBURG

Posted on 08/02/2008 12:37:25 PM PDT by Soliton

H.L. Mencken said during the Scopes Trial in 1925 that "those religious groups leading the war against the teaching of evolution are conspiracies of the inferior man against his betters."

The proponents of teaching the God-creation theology in public schools have not given up despite the U.S. Supreme Court rulings like the 1987 case where Louisiana tried to use code words for teaching creationism, calling it the Balanced Treatment Act.

Other code words for sneaking God into science class are "intelligent design" and "academic freedom." And these anti-evolutionists lobby state legislatures and put political pressure on school boards to subvert the teaching of evolutionary theory and common sense, and people had better stand up against them.

A person has the right to remain ignorant regarding science and believe in any kind of religion they want, but keep it out of the public schools.


TOPICS: Education; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: creationism; education; evolution; id; notnews; obsession; scienceeducation; yawn

1 posted on 08/02/2008 12:37:25 PM PDT by Soliton
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To: Soliton

LOL - I find it rather amusing that those who put SO MUCH FAITH in science, do not see their views as being faith based.


2 posted on 08/02/2008 12:46:44 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

Don’t you talk about “our betters” that way! /s


3 posted on 08/02/2008 12:50:35 PM PDT by GoDuke
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To: taxcontrol

Horse hocky..... get out of the house and spend several hours in the field studying bees or wild flowers or butterflys. After study and observation and just a smidgen of intelligence and the scales will be lifted, the rind will fall off.


4 posted on 08/02/2008 12:51:19 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Conservation? Let the NE Yankees freeze.... in the dark)
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To: Soliton

A person has the right to remain ignorant regarding science and believe in any kind of religion they want, but keep it out of the public schools.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Solution: Begin the process of privatizing K-12 education!

The **problem** is that we have compulsory, police enforced, government indoctrination camps! Get rid of them and **thousands** of conflicts that can have no compromise will evaporate like dew on grass on a hot summer’s day!

There is absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY for government to teach about the origins of man in a religiously neutral manner free of religious, cultural, and political consequences.

Those that claim that it is possible to have a religiously neutral education are hopelessly stupid or deceitful.

Government schools are a freedom of conscience and First Amendment abomination!


5 posted on 08/02/2008 12:51:58 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: taxcontrol
LOL - I find it rather amusing that those who put SO MUCH FAITH in science, do not see their views as being faith based.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

They are hopelessly stupid or deceitful. They refuse to accept that forcing their atheistic worldview on other people's children is religiously non-neutral and has profound non-neutral religious, cultural, and political consequences.

Privatize universal K-12 education. Let them indoctrinate their own children any way they like.

6 posted on 08/02/2008 12:54:39 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: taxcontrol
Most home schooled students learn evolution, intelligent design and creation theories, and are taught the problems and oppositions to each one.

Public schooled students learn only one theory with no opposition or debate allowed.
7 posted on 08/02/2008 1:02:51 PM PDT by \/\/ayne (I regret that I have but one subscription cancellation notice to give to my local newspaper.)
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To: Soliton

I wonder what test scores in Casper look like these days.


8 posted on 08/02/2008 1:04:18 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Wars kill soldiers; governments kill civilians." ~ Wayne LaPierre)
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To: bert
And what sir, are you calling “horse hocky”? Perhaps you are challenging the assertion that science requires FAITH?
9 posted on 08/02/2008 1:08:45 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Soliton

Sounds like the criticism of Bush. Both Bush and God are too stupid to understand the fine points of liberal education.
The level of stupidity required to describe God as stupid can only be achieved by state sponsored indoctrination.
Science can only exist, after all, in an orderly universe. Existence by chance is of necessity chaos.


10 posted on 08/02/2008 1:17:57 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: Amos the Prophet
Existence by chance is of necessity chaos

Nope

11 posted on 08/02/2008 1:19:19 PM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: \/\/ayne
Public schooled students learn only one theory with no opposition or debate allowed.
12 posted on 08/02/2008 1:20:39 PM PDT by combat_boots (She lives! 22 weeks, 9.5 inches. Go, baby, go!)
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To: \/\/ayne
Public schooled students learn only one theory with no opposition or debate allowed.

Not true. No debate is allowed in the school perhaps, but parents aren't helpless. If your child is being taught something in school, and you want them to see the argument from a different standpoint, teach them yourself. Don't rely on schools to be the only source of education for your children.

I can't count the number of times I'd come home from school, be asked "what did you learn today", relate the stories of that days lessons, and be asked "Hmm... and what about...?", which led to alternate ways of looking at nearly everything. Some were simply from the devil's advocate view, just to improve my rational and critical thinking skills and teach me to defend what I believe to be true. Others were intended to make me see there is more than one way to approach nearly every issue.

Point is, parents have more influence over their children than they believe. Disagree with what the school teaches? Fine. Tell your students that's what the school thinks, but challenge them to see things from another viewpoint as well.

13 posted on 08/02/2008 1:36:30 PM PDT by Jokelahoma (Animal testing is a bad idea. They get all nervous and give wrong answers.)
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To: Jokelahoma
Tell your students that's what the school thinks, but challenge them to see things from another viewpoint as well.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Viewpoint? Hm?.....As in worldview?

The government schools have only two options: Godless worldview and God-centered. BOTH are a **religious** point of view because the existence of God can neither be proved or disproved! **BOTH** the God-centered and godless worldviews require **FAITH**!

So....When government **FORCES** a godless worldview on children, and its priests and priestesses ( misnamed “teachers”) **PREACH** the godless worldview faith everyday, then government is **ESTABLISHING** its godless religion of Secular Humanism. Evolution is merely one tenet of many that composes the official godless religion of government.

Our First Amendment should protect us from this government establishment of religion in its temples ( oops! “schools”) but it doesn't! People are waking up about it though. They are now beginning to realize that government temples ( misnamed “schools”) never were, are not now, and never can be religiously neutral.

No,....Parents should not be forced to undo the religious indoctrination foisted on their children by the police backed anointed ones ( misnamed “teachers”) in these oracles of godless “points of view”.

Regarding police: There are real bullets in those guns on the hip.

14 posted on 08/02/2008 2:32:20 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: Jokelahoma
Point is, parents have more influence over their children than they believe. Disagree with what the school teaches? Fine. Tell your students that's what the school thinks, but challenge them to see things from another viewpoint as well.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Given that you feel that way, I am certain you would have no objection to the government Taliban forcing your children into madrassas.

Gee! You could always discuss things when they got home, and they would be exposed to another viewpoint.

15 posted on 08/02/2008 2:34:01 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: taxcontrol
I find it rather amusing that those who put SO MUCH FAITH in science, do not see their views as being faith based.

Faith based upon facts---it's called science.

16 posted on 08/02/2008 3:45:14 PM PDT by Rudder
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To: Soliton
Ignorance tries to sneak into schools

Ignorance snuck into public schools a long time ago!

Most graduates of public schools are woefully ignorant of the sciences in general. But they muddle through life anyway, since much of the details of science matter little in day to day life. The science that does perhaps matter most - economics - is rarely taught in public K-12 schools to any significant extent. If it were the graduates of those schools would be far less likely to support liberal political candidates.

17 posted on 08/02/2008 5:16:46 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: Rudder; taxcontrol
Faith based upon facts---it's called science.

SCIENCE being a construct borne from the mind of man.

18 posted on 08/02/2008 5:59:15 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Soldier soon to be training other Army Soldiers)
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To: wintertime
Given that you feel that way, I am certain you would have no objection to the government Taliban forcing your children into madrassas.

Right! And I'd be perfectly fine if teachers were executing students because parents can always teach their children they're not actually dead!

Sheesh. Overreact much? There are lines, obviously. where teachers overstep the boundaries between being a teacher and overtaking parental control. Whether or not they teach your particular version of history isn't one of them, or shouldn't be for rational thinkers. If my children were to come home telling me the earth was only 5000 years old, I'd work with them to dispel them of that notion. If they told me they learned man couldn't possibly have walked on the moon because they would have sunk in to the fine dust, I'd work with them to teach them how to approach that logically. If you disagree, teach your kids otherwise, or homeschool.

19 posted on 08/02/2008 7:31:38 PM PDT by Jokelahoma (Animal testing is a bad idea. They get all nervous and give wrong answers.)
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To: Soliton

Yep!
Of an infinite possibe permutations without code, all options are unrelated to the third place. There is a .00000000001% (10 to the tenth power) possibility of relation to the second place.
Code infers a prime mover, principle, framework, call it what you will. Pure so called natural selection, however, does not allow for any a priori regulatory uncaused cause. Therefor all permutations in an uncaused universe yield chaos.


20 posted on 08/02/2008 7:40:17 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: SoldierDad
SCIENCE being a construct borne from the mind of man.

From that perspective everything exists only in your mind.

21 posted on 08/02/2008 7:52:41 PM PDT by Rudder
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To: Jokelahoma
There are lines, obviously. where teachers overstep the boundaries between being a teacher and overtaking parental control.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Any teacher who teaches from a God-centered worldview has overstepped the bounds of a parent who hold a godless worldview.

Any teacher who teaches his or her curriculum from a godless worldview has overstepped the bounds of any parent who holds a God-centered worldview.

Parents should not be under police threat to submit their children to a government that is working to destroy their religion. ( godless or God-centered).

If our Founding Fathers could see the freedom of conscience monstrosity that is modern government education, they would have put in the First Amendment that government shall not establish government education!

22 posted on 08/02/2008 9:14:05 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: Jokelahoma
I thought it was obvious that I meant in school, perhaps I should have been more clear.

One brother I have home schools all his children, another had them go through public school. The home-schooled definitely know a lot more facts, however, the public schooled had much government propaganda debunked at home by their parents.

My two sons were already almost graduated from school when I had them (step), but I taught my grandson to read with phonics before the school system got to him. I will be debunking and teaching him.
23 posted on 08/02/2008 9:47:43 PM PDT by \/\/ayne (I regret that I have but one subscription cancellation notice to give to my local newspaper.)
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To: freeandfreezing
The science that does perhaps matter most - economics

If it was a science it would be called econology

24 posted on 08/03/2008 12:16:28 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Amos the Prophet

Nope


25 posted on 08/03/2008 12:31:04 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Jokelahoma
If my children were to come home telling me the earth was only 5000 years old, I'd work with them to dispel them of that notion.

On of my nieces came home from school one day and told my brother that her teacher (elementary or middle school?) told the class that salt water can’t freeze.

He had to “re-educate” her and then he contacted the teacher to “re-educate” him.

Parents need to be aware of what their children are being taught in school and an active advocate for sound education, in any school for that matter, public, private or parochial.

And home school parents should be careful about from where they are getting their curriculum. There are some excellent resources for home schoolers, I understand the Calvert School is one of the best. Parents who want to use sources like Answers In Genesis to teach their children about science are within their rights to do so, but I think they are doing their children a great disservice.
26 posted on 08/03/2008 5:48:16 AM PDT by Caramelgal (Just a lump of organized protoplasm - braying at the stars :),)
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To: Rudder

Sorry sir, you are incorrect. Science proceeds on faith in OBSERVATIONS not facts. Allow me to provide you the definition of science:

systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

Therefore, those that choose to believe in science have to accept on FAITH an number of presupposition. First, you must believe or accept on faith that what is observed is truth. This is a critical tenant of science because the moment you accept that there are things unknown that can’t be observed, then science can no longer govern that area.

The second tenant of FAITH in science is that the universe is systematic. This is critical because if there is an instance were things are not systematic, then the purpose of science is no longer valid.

Science is simply a belief system. And like many religion’s, it’s true believers will not allow room in their world for any challenges.


27 posted on 08/03/2008 12:28:34 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Rudder
Ah, solipsism. An interesting concept.
28 posted on 08/03/2008 7:06:44 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Soldier soon to be training other Army Soldiers)
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To: Soliton

yep


29 posted on 08/06/2008 6:30:37 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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