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Richard Dawkins: Muslim parents 'import creationism' into schools
Telegraph ^ | 03 Aug 2008 | Duncan Gardham

Posted on 08/03/2008 12:39:37 PM PDT by Soliton

"Most devout Muslims are creationists so when you go to schools, there are a large number of children of Islamic parents who trot out what they have been taught," Prof Dawkins said in a Sunday newspaper interview.

"Teachers are bending over backwards to respect home prejudices that children have been brought up with. The Government could do more, but it doesn't want to because it is fanatical about multiculturalism and the need to respect the different traditions from which these children come."

Prof Dawkins, professor for the public understanding of science at Oxford University, is author of books including the Selfish Gene, the Blind Watchmaker and the God Delusion.

He said science was being threatened in classrooms because the Government accepts that theories including "intelligent design" can be discussed "in the context of being one of a range of views on evolution."

"The Government – particularly under Tony Blair – thinks it is wonderful to have children brought up with their traditional religions. I call it brainwashing," he added.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Education; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: creationism; crevo; education; evolution; firstamendment; futureconflict; greatbritain; id; indoctrination; islam; liberalism; marxism; mohammedanism; muslims; muslimstudents; scienceeducation; ukmuslims

1 posted on 08/03/2008 12:40:02 PM PDT by Soliton
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To: Soliton

Ooh the beginning of the inevitable fracture between mainstream Marxists and Islam. Even pea brained Marxists are beginning to realize that the Muzzies are not going to be the left’s compliant, controllable tool.

Alas, 50 years of planning and scheming to link violent Muslim jihads with the Judeo-Christian belief is evaporating before their very eyes.


2 posted on 08/03/2008 12:46:52 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Soliton
If Dawkins spouts the same level of vitriol against Muslim teachings as against Christians, he won't last five years.

Let him shoot off his mouth.

3 posted on 08/03/2008 12:50:21 PM PDT by Brian S. Fitzgerald
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To: Soliton

These militant secularists have maligned Christians for decades, but just wait until Muslims make up the majority in our public schools. They will not stand for their faith being desecrated, imams can issue fatwas, and scientists may long for the days when the docile Christians could be kicked around in the public square.


4 posted on 08/03/2008 12:59:42 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: Soliton
Oh boy I can't wait for the NEA and all the Marxists to start forcing their Darwinism down their throats and banning creationism. This is going to be too much fun. Those Muzzies are going to go nuts.

I only wish Christians and Jews had the guts to stand peacefully against the same things that's going on in Europe and the US.

5 posted on 08/03/2008 1:03:26 PM PDT by mainestategop (MAINE: Come in and get taxed)
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To: Soliton
home prejudices

Odd term for someone's faith.

The Government ... is fanatical about multiculturalism and the need to respect the different traditions from which these children come.

Oh go one and admit it -- you're afraid of them.

6 posted on 08/03/2008 1:08:27 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Soliton

“Teachers are bending over backwards to respect home prejudices that children have been brought up with. The Government could do more, but it doesn’t want to because it is fanatical about multiculturalism and the need to respect the different traditions from which these children come.”

...Unless the children are Christian.


7 posted on 08/03/2008 1:12:14 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: wagglebee

“”Teachers are bending over backwards to respect home prejudices that children have been brought up with. The Government could do more, but it doesn’t want to because it is fanatical about multiculturalism and the need to respect the different traditions from which these children come.”

I don’t see them doing that with Christians.


8 posted on 08/03/2008 1:14:22 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (If Islam conquers the world, the Earth will be at peace because the human race will be killed off.)
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To: MrEdd
Ooh the beginning of the inevitable fracture between mainstream Marxists and Islam. Even pea brained Marxists are beginning to realize that the Muzzies are not going to be the left’s compliant, controllable tool. Alas, 50 years of planning and scheming to link violent Muslim jihads with the Judeo-Christian belief is evaporating before their very eyes.

Very insightful?,

9 posted on 08/03/2008 1:15:16 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Brian S. Fitzgerald
If Dawkins spouts the same level of vitriol against Muslim teachings as against Christians, he won't last five years. Let him shoot off his mouth

How very Christian?

10 posted on 08/03/2008 1:16:21 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: mainestategop
Oh boy I can't wait for the NEA and all the Marxists to start forcing their Darwinism down their throats and banning creationism

Me too!

11 posted on 08/03/2008 1:19:27 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: BenLurkin
The Government ... is fanatical about multiculturalism and the need to respect the different traditions from which these children come. Oh go on and admit it -- you're afraid of them.

Scared scienceless!

12 posted on 08/03/2008 1:20:50 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: ViLaLuz
Unless the children are Christian.

Thank G-d for the first amendment eh?!

13 posted on 08/03/2008 1:22:35 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton

If it ever comes down to evolution versus Sharia — I’ll cross the aisle and stand with the Darwinists.


14 posted on 08/03/2008 1:23:05 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Soliton

INTREP


15 posted on 08/03/2008 1:44:45 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: BenLurkin
If it ever comes down to evolution versus Sharia — I’ll cross the aisle and stand with the Darwinists.

Never sacrifice faith. Just don't confuse it with science.

16 posted on 08/03/2008 1:50:59 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: LiteKeeper

If I keep doing your lesson plan, I’ll need to join the NEA?


17 posted on 08/03/2008 1:54:39 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: LiteKeeper

If I keep doing your lesson plan, I’ll need to join the NEA?


18 posted on 08/03/2008 1:54:42 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton

This just in: Richard Dawkins imports ‘a$$hole-ness’ everywhere he goes.


19 posted on 08/03/2008 2:45:50 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Soliton

No. How very Muslim to be exact.


20 posted on 08/03/2008 2:48:44 PM PDT by Brian S. Fitzgerald
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To: Secret Agent Man
This just in: Richard Dawkins imports ‘a$$hole-ness’ everywhere he goes

Do you praise Jesus with that mouth?

21 posted on 08/03/2008 2:50:06 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Brian S. Fitzgerald
I like to picture Moses herding millions of animals on to a boat. Praise the miraculous impossibilities!
22 posted on 08/03/2008 2:52:32 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton

I did use dollar signs...

I also was actually ‘typing’ not speaking...

And yes, I do praise Jesus with my mouth, and I also curse the unrepentant wicked with it as well.


23 posted on 08/03/2008 2:54:14 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Soliton

Allah is not God, and never was God. When Muhammed was born there were 360 pagan Saudi Arabian gods. Then Muhammed came along and got rid of 359 of the pagan gods, and keeping only Allah. Allah is a generic word for god, and it can be any kind of god, which creates the confusion over it.
Allah is a pagan god, just like Ba’al in the Old Testament.
Allah is not the God of the bible.


24 posted on 08/03/2008 2:58:03 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: Secret Agent Man
and I also curse the unrepentant wicked with it as well.

I believe by your own theology you will be very toasty in hell then

25 posted on 08/03/2008 2:58:18 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton

Allah is not God, and never was God. When Muhammed was born there were 360 pagan Saudi Arabian gods. Then Muhammed came along and got rid of 359 of the pagan gods, and keeping only Allah. Allah is a generic word for god, and it can be any kind of god, which creates the confusion over it.
Allah is a pagan god, just like Ba’al in the Old Testament.
Allah is not the God of the bible.


26 posted on 08/03/2008 2:59:09 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: tessalu
Allah is not God

Who is

It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices people can make about their spiritual path.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.

2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.

3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.

4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:

5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology

6) Jews and Gentiles

7) Bringing the Messiah

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will: A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4) D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9). The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi. Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended. B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! C. TORAH OBSERVANCE The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4) Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation. A. VIRGIN BIRTH The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods. B. CRUCIFIXION The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet." C. SUFFERING SERVANT Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant." In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun. Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus. From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nanianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person. Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4). Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8): The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy. What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3) Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination, and the one most familiar to the Western world. A. GOD AS THREE? The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19). Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies. In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert. B. MAN AS GOD? Christians believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30). Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19). Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3) C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER? The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary -- i.e. confessing one's sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me." In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and God. As the Bible says: "God is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between God and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1) D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations. By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform. The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don't retreat from life, we elevate it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) JEWS AND GENTILES Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion. The Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. King Solomon asked God to heed the prayers of non-Jews who come to the Holy Temple (Kings I 8:41-43). The prophet Isaiah refers to the Temple as a "House for all nations." The Temple service during Sukkot featured 70 bull offerings, corresponding to the 70 nations of the world. The Talmud says that if the Romans would have realized how much benefit they were getting from the Temple, they'd never have destroyed it. Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the "Seven Laws of Noah." Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven. For further study of the Seven Laws of Noah, see: Bnei Noah of Fort Worth http://www.fastlane.net/~bneinoah/ Path of the Righteous Gentile http://www.chabad.org/gopher/outlook/7laws/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 7) BRINGING THE MESSIAH Maimonides states that the popularity of Christianity (and Islam) is part of God's plan to spread the ideals of Torah throughout the world. This moves society closer to a perfected state of morality and toward a greater understanding of God. All this is in preparation for the Messianic age. Indeed, the world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. War and pollution threaten our planet; ego and confusion erode family life. To the extent we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we will yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first questions a Jew is asked on Judgment Day is: "Did you yearn for the arrival of the Messiah?" How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love all humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best we can), and to encourage others to do so as well. Despite the gloom, the world does seem headed toward redemption. One apparent sign is that the Jewish people have returned to the Land of Israel and made it bloom again. Additionally, a major movement is afoot of young Jews returning to Torah tradition. The Messiah can come at any moment, and it all depends on our actions. God is ready when we are. For as King David says: "Redemption will come today -- if you hearken to His voice." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- For further study, read "The Real Messiah" by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan Online resources on the Jewish view of Jesus: http://www.jewsforjudaism.org http://www.outreachjudaism.org http://www.drazin.com With blessings from Jerusalem, Rabbi Shraga Simmons

27 posted on 08/03/2008 3:02:31 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton

Thank you for showing that you know very little about my theology.

Read some of Paul’s books.


28 posted on 08/03/2008 3:57:18 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Brian S. Fitzgerald
If Dawkins spouts the same level of vitriol against Muslim teachings as against Christians, he won't last five years.

Five years? More like five minutes, but otherwise, I agree, let him keep shooting off his mouth...

the infowarrior

29 posted on 08/03/2008 4:20:32 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: Soliton
"I like to picture Moses herding millions of animals on to a boat. Praise the miraculous impossibilities! "

The essential DNA code of the different species on Earth could fit in a small jar.

30 posted on 08/03/2008 5:05:56 PM PDT by Brian S. Fitzgerald
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To: Brian S. Fitzgerald
The essential DNA code of the different species on Earth could fit in a small jar.

Yes, but the Bible says two of the clean and seven of the unclean. Are you a heretic?

31 posted on 08/03/2008 5:09:39 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: MrEdd
Ooh the beginning of the inevitable fracture between mainstream Marxists and Islam. Even pea brained Marxists are beginning to realize that the Muzzies are not going to be the left’s compliant, controllable tool.

The Muslims know who their natural allies in the West are. Harun Yahya!

32 posted on 08/03/2008 5:18:12 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy
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To: Clintonfatigued; infowarrior
Let him go to Tehran or to Islamabad and preach "The Good News that there is No Allah"TM.

There are countless Christian missionaries who have been martyred for their faith.

Where are they atheist missionaries? Are they willing to die for the cause?

(...and yes, the Islamic countries are far more "fusion of church and state" than even Mike Huckabee would have been able to impose here.)

Cheers!

33 posted on 08/03/2008 6:24:11 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: BenLurkin
If it ever comes down to evolution versus Sharia — I’ll cross the aisle and stand with the Darwinists.

I'll buy popcorn and start a Crusade. /sarc>

34 posted on 08/03/2008 6:25:24 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Soliton

He sounds like a very bitter man. He needs the joy of salvation in his life.


35 posted on 08/03/2008 7:55:42 PM PDT by Force of Truth (Legalize the Constitution::::The power to tax is the power to kill.)
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To: Brian S. Fitzgerald
If Dawkins spouts the same level of vitriol against Muslim teachings as against Christians, he won't last five years.

Let him shoot off his mouth.

He should be thankful that America is a nation of free speech thanks to our nation's Christian founding fathers. If he was in most Muslim countries he would be killed for what he wrote.

36 posted on 08/03/2008 8:00:16 PM PDT by Force of Truth (Legalize the Constitution::::The power to tax is the power to kill.)
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To: Soliton
While it's true that Judaism does not proselytize non-Jews to convert to Judaism itself (which is a covenent between G-d and a specific nation), nevertheless it does not teach a warm fuzziness about all religions being "equally good." Non-Jews are objectively bound by the Seven Noachide Laws and these forbid the practice of false religions such as chr*stianity, islam, etc. Noachide Law, though not as complex as Mosaic Halakhah is nevertheless formidable. And idolatry and blasphemy are ever bit as forbidden as murder and theft.

RaMBa"M says Mashiach will fight the wars of HaShem and "compel" the nations to observe the Noachide Laws, and the pertinent mitzvot of the Torah are those pertaining to the milchemet reshut or "voluntary war." Under certain conditions (not currently in force) Israel was allowed to engage in warfare to enlarge the borders of the Kingdom. The population to be conquered were given the option of submitting to the Noachide laws and paying tribute or else having their males killed and their females and children seized as slaves. These are the laws under which Mashiach will "fight the wars of HaShem" and establish the Kingdom of G-d on earth.

Polytheists tend to be very tolerant (Antiochus being an early exception). Prior to that time it was the Jews who were uniquely intolerant because of their Monotheism.

37 posted on 08/03/2008 8:20:31 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ('Eykhah yashevah vadad ha`ir rabbati `am, hayetah ke'almanah . . .)
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To: tessalu

Why do Arab Christians refer to god the father as “Allah” then?


38 posted on 08/03/2008 8:26:46 PM PDT by Clemenza (McCain/Palin; Maverick and the MILF)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I love Zionists. So yeah what you said!


39 posted on 08/03/2008 9:03:38 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton
I have no idea what you are talking about, but I love Zionists. So yeah what you said!

Just replying to your attempt to paint yourself as a philo-Semite even as you reject the Torah.

J*sus was the hippie. HaShem 'Ish Milchamah.

40 posted on 08/03/2008 9:08:51 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ('Eykhah yashevah vadad ha`ir rabbati `am, hayetah ke'almanah . . .)
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To: Force of Truth
He sounds like a very bitter man. He needs the joy of salvation in his life.

Imagine you were in ancient Greece and you saw everyone tossing money at statues for favors. That is how I believe professor Dawkins sees you guys. Just like you would like to save his soul, he would like to save your mind.

41 posted on 08/03/2008 9:09:43 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Just replying to your attempt to paint yourself as a philo-Semite even as you reject the Torah.

I am not only a philo-semite, I have physically proven it with Ellen Moss.

What the heck are you referring to?

42 posted on 08/03/2008 9:11:43 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton; Yomin Postelnik
I am not only a philo-semite, I have physically proven it with Ellen Moss.

What the heck are you referring to?

Ewwwww! Too much information! I wasn't asking for a list of your sexual escapades!

A philo-Semite is a lover of HaShem, Torah, and Israel. Unfortunately, rebellious children of Southern Baptist parents sometimes enjoy invoking their "philo-Semitism" as they tear the "chr*stian" "old testament" to shreds. They enjoy doing this because they enjoy conflating Judaism with liberalism and indifferentism, and the TaN"KH with chr*stianity rather than with its actual religion.

Sorry, but I don't want Judaism or Zionism (which is, after all, based on Biblical sentimentalism) associated with you or your attitude.

I've been on this forum since 5/99. You've been here almost two months longer. Yet for most of the past nine plus years I was blissfully ignorant of your existence. Now you're everywhere, and with an intentional tone of taunting and scorn that implies actual sadism. Dude.

Your last reply to "Force of Truth" was actually reasonable. It's the only reasonable post you've made all day. Otherwise you have chosen, as I said earlier, to taunt and tease other than reason. You have stated that it "self-evident" that only nature exists and yet denied any presuppositions. You have posted a thread implying criticism of islam for teaching creationism while hypocritically attacking the chr*stianity of other people who share your disdain for islam (and since you aren't even a chr*stian to begin with, this is certainly hypocritical of you). You have said that you are incapable of faith and attacked it, but insisted that faith is all right so long as it isn't confused with science. (What does this mean? That it should be retained as ethnocultural folklore used to teach ethical lessons?) I have been tempted today to ask you what caused the big bang (as I understand it, and I could be wrong, the "big bang" theory is a creation ex nihilo theory, only with G-d removed) and where a thoroughly scientific person such as yourself gets his moral and ethical beliefs, since morals and ethics are altogether outside science. I have refrained because I knew that rather than answer a sincere question you would merely spit in my face.

But what really makes me suspect that there is something deeply wrong with you personally is that you invoke as "proof" for your beliefs your alleged super-duper intelligence. "You're foolish to disagree with me because I'm an idiot savant?" What kind of argument is that? You're autistic? That makes you right? That may explain certain parts of your personality, but I doubt it automatically makes your position right.

There is no shortage of cruelty in the world. There are cruel chr*stians, cruel, moslems, cruel Jews, cruel people-who-don't-believe-in-G-d-but-who-aren't-atheists-because-they-can't-prove-he-doesn't exist, cruel liberals, cruel conservatives, cruel moderates. But your constant hazing and attacking of other people paired with the excuse that you are a genetic wonder of the ages (the next state in human evolution, perhaps?), rather than provoking critical thought in either you or your debating partners, is simply intended to stick the knife in and twist. "Prove it?" Where do you live--in a sandbox? Do you also frequently often use the word "Nyah?" You wouldn't even tell a child that "santa" doesn't exist (at least I doubt that your fellow positivists on FR would do such a thing), yet you have stated over and over that the G-d of your opponents is identical to "santa." Did your parents teach you no basic manners?

Believe me, Sir, while you may enjoy raising my blood pressure I don't enjoy it. I assure you that if FR had an ignore feature (and why it doesn't have one I don't know) you'd be on it and you and I would not cross swords and grow angry with one another. Of course, if that were the case, you probably wouldn't even hang around here.

If your Southern Baptist parents hurt you, I'm sorry. You're not the first and won't be the last to be hurt by parents. And it may be that your relationship with them was perfect. I have no idea. All I know is that you have a streak within you that is not devoted to honest debate but to cruelty, and whether it is from nature or nurture (or your superior intellect) is, for all practical purposes, irrelevant.

I do not understand why those who share your views don't regard you as every bit as much an embarrassment as Myers. I am sure that many of them could make the same arguments you do without your childishness, your almost intentional contradictions, and your invocation of a super-human intelligence as a proof and a defense. Granted, none of the camps on FR like to air their dirty laundry in public, but . . . whatever. Were I on your side I would certainly have been embarrassed by you a long time ago.

May self-existent quantifiable measurable natural reality heal your psychic wounds and never mislead you in your moral sense!

43 posted on 08/03/2008 9:57:32 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ('Eykhah yashevah vadad ha`ir rabbati `am, hayetah ke'almanah . . .)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Nice reply
44 posted on 08/04/2008 1:36:23 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
But what really makes me suspect that there is something deeply wrong with you personally is that you invoke as "proof" for your beliefs your alleged super-duper intelligence.

I have never asked anyone to accept anything I claim based on anything but reason, logic and evidence. Unlike most of the people I debate, I stick to the facts and cite sources. My intelligence comment was specifically about my lack of social skills relative to my intelligence. I was talking about Dawkins or PZ Myers at the time and said that they were smart, but hurt their cause by not being polite. My son is autistic. Autism is genetic. http://www.actionbioscience.org/genomic/dougherty.html. This certainly means that my High IQ combined with my lack of nuance may mean that I too am autistic. I stated somewhere that I thought Dawkins may be too.

45 posted on 08/04/2008 2:13:26 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton

I read somewhere that Dawkins doesn’t drive.


46 posted on 08/04/2008 7:08:03 AM PDT by Misterioso
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Soliton

Atheists often make lousy parents. So do some Jews, Christians, and whoever else. I pity all the kids of lousy parents. And in some ways they are truly blessed, as they can go forward, know what not to do, and make great and happy lives for them and their own children. The key is not to reject a philosophy for personal reasons. Proof of the Almighty is abundant. People just have to be willing to accept it with an open mind. Now I fully expect Soliton to get all upset, but that just shows an emotional attachment, to a higher being no less, not objective analysis.


47 posted on 08/05/2008 9:22:36 PM PDT by Yomin Postelnik (Vote the War Hero, Not the Incompetent Noob - Don't Sit Out - Our Security's At Stake)
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To: Yomin Postelnik
Proof of the Almighty is abundant

Please provide something verifiable

48 posted on 08/05/2008 9:32:33 PM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Soliton

Been there, done that, you distorted it and then went into a non-ending tirade, which is only indicative of an emotional attachment (albeit of an angry kind for now) to the Creator. When you relax reread my pieces on the subject and I’ll be happy to discuss.


49 posted on 08/05/2008 10:34:52 PM PDT by Yomin Postelnik (Vote the War Hero, Not the Incompetent Noob - Don't Sit Out - Our Security's At Stake)
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To: Soliton

The man lost a debate to a relatively young and obscure rabbi (albeit a smart one) on the issue. The YouTube videos of him and Boteach are telling. Then he made a fool of himself with Ben Stein. Now he asserts that all who disagree with him are “brainwashed.” We’ve seen this type of Stalinist attitude before.


50 posted on 08/05/2008 10:38:07 PM PDT by Yomin Postelnik (Vote the War Hero, Not the Incompetent Noob - Don't Sit Out - Our Security's At Stake)
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