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Physicists spooked by faster-than-light information transfer
Nature ^ | 8/13/08 | Geoff Brumfiel

Posted on 08/14/2008 5:42:56 PM PDT by LibWhacker

Quantum weirdness even stranger than previously thought.

Two photons can be connected in a way that seems to defy the very nature of space and time, yet still obeys the laws of quantum mechanics.

Physicists at the University of Geneva achieved the weird result by creating a pair of ‘entangled’ photons, separating them, then sending them down a fibre optic cable to the Swiss villages of Satigny and Jussy, some 18 kilometres apart.

The researchers found that when each photon reached its destination, it could instantly sense its twin’s behaviour without any direct communication. The finding does not violate the laws of quantum mechanics, the theory that physicists use to describe the behaviour of very small systems. Rather, it shows just how quantum mechanics can defy everyday expectation, says Nicolas Gisin, the researcher who led the study. “Our experiment just puts the finger where it hurts,” he says. The study is published in Nature.

Spooky and unsettling

In the everyday world, objects can organize themselves in just a few ways. For example, two people can coordinate their actions by talking directly with each other, or they can both receive instructions from a third source.

In both these cases, the information is communicated at or below the speed of light, in keeping with Einstein’s axiom that nothing in the Universe can go faster. But quantum mechanics allows for a third way to coordinate information. When two particles are quantum mechanically ‘entangled’ with each other, measuring the properties of one will instantly tell you something about the other. In other words, quantum theory allows two particles to organize themselves at apparently faster-than-light speeds.

Einstein called such behaviour “spooky action at a distance”, because he found it deeply unsettling. He and other physicists clung to the idea that there might be some other way for the particles to communicate with each other at or near the speed of light.

But the new experiment shows that direct communication between the photons (at least as we know it) is simply impossible. The team simultaneously measured several properties of both photons, such as phase, when they arrived at their villages and found that they did indeed have a spooky awareness of each other’s behaviour. On the basis of their measurements, the team concluded that if the photons had communicated, they must have done so at least 100,000 times faster than the speed of light — something nearly all physicists thought would be impossible. In other words, these photons cannot know about each other through any sort of normal exchange of information.

Framed

The team also ruled out other possible reasons for the apparently coordinated behaviour. For example, one could imagine that the photons might have shared information before they left Geneva — but Gisin’s measurements showed that they could not.

A second test ensured that the scientists in the two villages weren’t missing some form of communication thanks to Earth’s motion through space. According to Einstein’s theory of relativity, observers moving at high speeds can have different ‘reference frames’, so that they can potentially get different measurements of the same event. The Geneva results could possibly be explained if the two photons were communicating through a frame of reference that wasn’t readily apparent to the scientists."

But theoretical calculations2 have shown that performing tests over a full spin of the globe would test all possible reference frames. The team did just that, and they got the same result in all cases.

The bottom line, says Gisin is that “there is just no time for these two photons to communicate”.

The experiment shows that in quantum mechanics at least, some things transcend space-time, says Terence Rudolph, a theorist at Imperial College London. It also shows that humans have attached undue importance to the three dimensions of space and one of time we live in, he argues. “We think space and time are important because that’s the kind of monkeys we are.”

If you are baffled by the result, fear not — you’re not alone. “For me, honestly, it doesn’t make any sense,” says Gisin. “I don’t think we can today claim that we have a good story to tell how this all happens.” He hopes that the work will stimulate theorists to come up with new ways of explaining the spooky effect.


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: physics; quantum; spooked; stringtheory; transfer
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To: LibWhacker

Another variant on this experiment? Afterward the lead scientist gets to give a little interview to some newsman and explain how its really puzzling and on one has a clue what’s going on.


41 posted on 08/15/2008 12:54:14 AM PDT by eclecticEel (men who believe deeply in something, even wrong, usually triumph over men who believe in nothing)
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To: js1138
On purely asthetic grounds I vote for trancententals all the way down.

Yeah, OK. But... the further down you go, the more quantized things get, don't they?

42 posted on 08/15/2008 8:54:05 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Without the second, the rest are just politicians' BS.)
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To: LibWhacker

Yippee!!!
A couple of years ago I got into a debate with another FReeper over this idea. I thought the concept had been basically (but not extensively) verified when CERN did an experiment like this around 2000.


43 posted on 08/17/2008 4:38:18 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Quix; Las Vegas Dave; Fred Nerks
The experiment shows that in quantum mechanics at least, some things transcend space-time, says Terence Rudolph, a theorist at Imperial College London. It also shows that humans have attached undue importance to the three dimensions of space and one of time we live in, he argues. "We think space and time are important because that's the kind of monkeys we are."
We primate a mistake coming down from the trees. ;')
44 posted on 08/21/2008 10:52:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: SunkenCiv

HOpe you’re listening to C2C tonight.

Thanks.


45 posted on 08/22/2008 1:14:07 AM PDT by Quix (key QUOTES POLS 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: LibWhacker

Hoagland asserts that when PART III of his disclosures comes out soonish . . .

there will be plans such that any clever person in their garage can make their own zero-point energy production unit.

Says it’s super simple.

Have read that before . . . could get interesting.


46 posted on 08/22/2008 1:16:41 AM PDT by Quix (key QUOTES POLS 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: Quix
Quadratic Bump!

Makes my head hurt!

47 posted on 08/22/2008 2:25:48 AM PDT by JDoutrider (Obama: The Hype and Chains candidate)
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To: JDoutrider; ActionNewsBill; AFreeBird; airborne; albertp; ALASKA; Alice in Wonderland; Angelas; ...
Any experts in such things have any comments?

From:

HERE: http://www.enterprisemission.com/Von_Braun2.htm

From part 2:

So, precisely as predicted by the HD model (and DePalma!) -- a key section of von Braun's rocket, in fact, did rotate that night ... as it placed Explorer I into space!

Mystery of "the unexplained higher orbit" ... finally ... solved.

Well ... not quite, of course.

For, this "confirmation" only deepened the real mystery:

Why does "spinning" a steel pinball, or ... rotating a one-ton, high-tech "tub" -- containing 15 solid rockets -- allow both to climb SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER against gravity ... than if they were NOT spinning!?

One of the first reactions I had to this fascinating confirmation -- that portions of von Braun's rocket HAD to spin, inevitably (from DePalma's experiment ...) resulting in the higher orbit for Explorer I -- was a feeling of intense gratification for Bruce; for, this simple engineering detail proved that Bruce DePalma has been absolutely right all along ... for over 34 years ... in insisting that "spinning a mass" also creates "some kind of anti-gravitational, anti-intertial field ..." which allows the object to fly higher against gravity than if it was NOT spinning!

Von Braun -- decades before Bruce DePalma ever conceived of his elegant little "spinning ball experiment" -- had already PROVED Depalma right ... with easily the most expensive "spinning ball" demonstration one could possibly imagine (Explorer I cost the American taxpayer approximately 20 million dollars, in 1958; today, allowing for inflation, that would be something like "half a billion ... ").

Further, it was now obvious that this is why von Braun also missed the Moon ... by those "pesky ~37,000 miles" with Pioneer 4.

Again he was using, in his Juno-2 "moonrocket" (a further modification of the Jupiter-C ...), EXACTLY the same "spinning tub" arrangement for the four solid-rocket upper stages that he'd used in the previous Earth-orbiting Explorer launches; and (from what we now know ...), the "DePalma Effect" struck again ... neatly over-accelerating the Pioneer 4 spacecraft to a slightly higher velocity than JPL had calculated using only standard "Newtonian dynamics" ... thus, causing the spacecraft to arrive at the Moon's orbit slightly sooner than it should have ... passing ahead of the Moon itself (which, of course, hadn't reached the "rendezvous point" yet ...) by those disappointing "37,000 miles (below) ...."

It all fit -- beautifully.

Of course, the reason why simply "spinning an object" should so dramatically change its "Newtonian dynamics" -- against all current mainstream theories (including, "sacred" Relativity ...) -- was still as profound a mystery as ever ....

It is hard to overstate both the scientific and political significance of von Braun's initial Explorer I discovery (swiftly confirmed, as we have documented, by Explorers III and IV, and all three Vanguard launches!) -- as well as all their confirmed connections now to DePalma's totally independent, rotating laboratory experiments.

Oh, did I forget to mention--

The US Navy Vanguard three-stage rocket also utilized a solid-propellant in its third stage ... so, it also had to be spun during the burn ... for "stabilization" -- at ~100 rpm (below)!

And, of course, then there was Allais ....

ALL these independent, dynamical results revealed "huge, gaping holes ..." in conventional "Newtonian mechanics" ... to say nothing of what they did to "General Relativity!" Yet, mainstream science -- and the mainstream science press, including those covering the space progream for the last 50 years -- blithely went on ... as if nothing was amiss!

DePalma himself, trained as a mainstream physicist for decades at two of the premier universities on the planet -- MIT and Harvard! -- wrestled with the extraordinary implications of his "spinning ball experiment" (first carried out in 1972 ...) for years -- before finally publishing some tentative, but far-reaching conclusions ....

"... the beginning of this author's work with rotating objects began with moment of inertia measurements of constrained gyroscopes undergoing forced precession. The increased moments of inertia discovered for precessional motion were translated into a series of measurements on pendula with rotating bobs. Although the discoveries of the inertial effects associated with precession and pendulum oscillations of rotating bob weights were highly suggestive, this author greatly resisted [for several years] attempts to force him to drop a rotating object for two reasons.

"Firstly, he had no reason to be able to predict the motion of a freely falling object on the basis of the inertial alterations he had measured which had concerned themselves with constrained situations of rotating objects. Second, there was no reason to expect inertial alterations [because of Einstein's inviolate "Principal of Equivalence"] to affect the rate of fall of a released object and there was no available theory which could in any way be applied to the situation or a falling rotating object in a gravitational field. This is a situation known in religious terms as a "leap into the dark."

"Since the author and his assistants are experts in the application of stroboscopic lighting techniques to the study of high speed motions, the first experimental cut at the situation was to photograph the trajectories of a steel ball bearing rotating at a high speed together with an identical [non-rotating] control object moving at a similar initial velocity. The result of the experiment was so startling and anomalous as to have taken me five years to understand.

"... Basically, the spinning object going higher than the identical non-rotating control with the same initial velocity, and, then falling faster than the identical non-rotating control, presents a dilemma which can only be resolved or understood ... on the basis of radically new concepts in physics [distinct from the existing "Laws of Thermodynamics" ... "Newton's Laws" ... or "Special and General Relativity"] ...

"We know when we can alter the properties of mechanical objects, i.e. change their inertia, we have contravened the conservation of energy, because we have associated the properties of an object with the space which contains the object. The space which contains the object also contains energy and we can go at the project in two ways: we can attempt to extract the energy without worrying where it came from, or we can attempt to understand physics, ourselves, and the Universe by a new formulation of reality.

"... The behavior of rotating objects is explained [after much thought] simply on the addition of free energy to whatever motion the rotating object is [already] making. [Thus] the spinning object goes higher and falls faster than the identical non-rotating control.

"... In terms of the dropping of the spinning ball, the understanding of the experiment involves the results of many other experiments as well as the resolution of a mind picture of the Universe which is our best approximation to understanding at the present time. What makes it difficult for other experimenters to understand the experiment is that it is not simply the results which are important. Without a theoretical foundation of understanding to make the experiment comprehensible -- to fit the results into a context of rational understanding and harmony with the facts of other experiments -- the data become trivial and worthless, and, worst of all, subject to misinterpretation.

"The [technological] availability of free energy from as simple an experiment as colliding a rotating object with a non-rotating one opens up the development of other machines for energy extraction and propulsion which may be more convenient to handle than the extraction of energy from the collision of a rotating object with a non-rotating one [emphasis added] ...."


48 posted on 08/22/2008 7:47:29 PM PDT by Quix (key QUOTES POLS 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: LibWhacker

*bookmark*


49 posted on 08/22/2008 7:51:08 PM PDT by airborne (If ignorance is bliss, why are liberals such miserable jerks?)
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To: LibWhacker

Wait. Let me guess. Photon entanglement involves Gravity latching, and we’re going to discover that the speed of Gravity is C squared (an accelerating velocity)?!


50 posted on 08/22/2008 7:58:17 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: LibWhacker
The researchers found that when each photon reached its destination, it could instantly sense its twin’s behaviour without any direct communication.

Is it possible that this is the first step towards developing Star Trak type 'transporters'?

51 posted on 08/22/2008 8:08:17 PM PDT by airborne (If ignorance is bliss, why are liberals such miserable jerks?)
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To: Southack; All; Las Vegas Dave; SunkenCiv

From the link I posted just above continuing on p 18 of 39:

This summation of DePalma’s thoughts on the “spinning ball experiment” is, in my opinion, a significant summation of the results of all of his decades of ground-breaking experiments in “rotation.”

It is also the key to understanding exactly what von Braun — independently, serendipitously — actually discovered with Explorer I ... decades earlier ... and then (for whatever reason) decided to keep secret to the day he died ....

For, after literally years of pondering its meaning — in concert with all the other “rotation and inertia experiments” he had carried out — DePalma, 25 years after Explorer (and knowing nothing of its anomalies or its profound significance to his own work ...), realized that “the spinning ball” was NOT (directly, anyway ...) about “anti-gravity” at all. That, instead, it represented a unique window into a far deeper reality ... re the very “energy structure” of space and time itself ... and the extraordinary possibilities of extracting that unlimited, “free energy” via a variety of “appropriate” technologies.

“Energy Crisis — Solved!” anyone ...?

One of our unfinished, on-going discussions (abruptly cut short by Bruce’s tragic and untimely death, in 1997 ...) was a resolution of exactly where this “free space energy” was coming from; in the “HD Model,” it is not really coming from “3-Space” at all — but literally from “a higher dimensional reality,” made available in this dimension (as a propagating torsion field distortion — see Chapter 2 in Dark Mission ...) via “physical rotation of mass ...”

The act of mere “rotation” — in the HD Model — literally “opens a type of ‘gate,’ or ‘geometric doorway ...’” between other dimensions ....

Intriguingly enough, our decades-old debates also now provided another (actually, “collateral”...) explanation for Explorer I’s “orbital over performance” ....


52 posted on 08/22/2008 8:13:56 PM PDT by Quix (key QUOTES POLS 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: Southack; SunkenCiv; Las Vegas Dave; doug from upland

From page 20 of 39 of the above link:

Decades later, in 2004, I decided that Bruce’s elegant Accutron-based “inertial field detector” — if upgraded with a laptop and a “computerized, crystal frequency calibration system” (easily affordable now ...) — would be the perfect sensor for a variety of HD “torsion field” experiments and measurements for Enterprise.

Combining two previous experiments — DePalma’s Accutron detection of the “spin field” around a massive, spinning laboratory disc, and Maurice Allais’ detection (with a paraconical pendulum) of equally “anomalous pendulum effects during the 1954 solar eclipse” (see Part I) — I decided to attempt detection of potential “torsion/HD effects” (if any!) generated from the impending Earth-Venus-Sun alignment during the rare “Venus Transit” — to take place on June 8, 2004 (below).

This is an event, which happens only in “pairs” (separated by 8 years every 122 years ..!) — where Venus comes directly between the Earth and Sun ... essentially, a tiny, tiny “partial solar eclipse” — caused by the shadowed side of a planet that’s almost the twin of Earth moving inbetween these two other celestial bodies ....


53 posted on 08/22/2008 8:35:24 PM PDT by Quix (key QUOTES POLS 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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