Is there any reason NOT to attack Russia, Cuba, North Korea and Iran?

09/01/2008 | WesternCulture

[WesternCulture]

Even though my country, Sweden, isn't a NATO-member, I'm beginning to feel somewhat annoyed over the behavior the Russian Air Force displays towards my dear neighbor country Norway.

I think the Nordic countries, as well as the whole of "Democratic" Europe will have to fight Russian Expansionism within a generation.

Russia will lose.

Russia stands no chance against a united Western Europe - and if Russia does not wish to realize this, we will make them highly aware of their inferiority in terms of population size, technological know-how, production capacity and overall management skills.

Compared to governments like those of Iran, Cuba and North Korea, the Russian leaders, at least, seem to have convinced their own people of being able rulers.

The respective governments of Iran, Cuba and North Korea, on the other hand, couldn't care less about what the inhabitants of their own nations actually think about their oppressors.

The victims of these regimes could probably not dethrone their leaders all by themselves - but we could!

The Free World is stronger than ever and this we Westerners ought to realize.

Saddam Hussein resisted the doctrine of "Western" freedom and civilization. Today, he is gone and no longer troubles me while I watch the news on TV.

Saddam was not the last tyrant wishing to see us Westerners dead.

Humanity's quest for freedom just won't go away, but it seems like the evil of tyranny will stick around for a while too!

It's not enough to merely commemmorate the accomplishments of men like Churchill and Reagan. We must be prepared to defend what they handed down to us.

[Brian S. Fitzgerald]

The big fight in the future will be over arctic oil resources, IMO.

[Pearls Before Swine]

Yeah. The insects, the Chinese, the Arabs, and the Africans would inherit the Earth.

[rabscuttle385]

Is there any reason NOT to attack Russia, Cuba, North Korea and Iran?

That depends. One by one or all at once?

And there are other (not necessarily diplomatic) ways of bringing them down. Cuba, for example, is a joke. And so is North Korea. As for Iran and Russia, if oil goes down, well, guess what their primary export is.

The easiest way to deal with hostile powers is to drill here, drill now, and pay less.

[gondramB]

>>Is there any reason NOT to attack Russia, Cuba, North Korea and Iran?<<<

Hmmm

5,000 nuclear warheads and the ability to kill everyone in this country within an hour?

[cripplecreek]

Or their Chinese allies with a military the size of our entire population and a growing technological capability.

[WesternCulture]

“5,000 nuclear warheads and the ability to kill everyone in this country within an hour?”

- I’d say the US and its allies are pretty competent in the nuclear war department too.

The only chance a nation like Russia has of defeating the US and Western Europe is by a conventional war and their chances of triumph in such a conflict are very, very slim.

[Bommer]

Nope! none whats so ever. Be my guest!

[Gay State Conservative]

Attacking the USSR could present problems.Attacking N Korea wouldn't be easy either.The others would be a piece of cake...particularly if we didn't fight “with one hand tied behind our backs”....if ya catch my drift.

[ETL]

Am I the only one who is aware of the renewed Russia-China alliance?? Certainly seems like it.

From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/HI29Ag01.html

Russia, China flex muscles in joint war games
Reuters: Aug 17, 2007

CHEBARKUL, Russia (Reuters) - Russia and China staged their biggest joint exercises on Friday but denied this show of military prowess could lead to the formation of a counterweight to NATO.

"Today's exercises are another step towards strengthening the relations between our countries, a step towards strengthening international peace and security, and first and foremost, the security of our peoples," Putin said.

Fighter jets swooped overhead, commandos jumped from helicopters on to rooftops and the boom of artillery shells shook the firing range in Russia's Ural mountains as two of the largest armies in the world were put through their paces.

The exercises take place against a backdrop of mounting rivalry between the West, and Russia and China for influence over Central Asia, a strategic region that has huge oil, gas and mineral resources.

Russia's growing assertiveness is also causing jitters in the West. Putin announced at the firing range that Russia was resuming Soviet-era sorties by its strategic bomber aircraft near NATO airspace.
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-29030120070817?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

War Games: Russia, China Grow Alliance [ 2005 Joint War Games]
September 23, 2005

In foreign policy it’s critical to “know thine enemy.” So American policymakers should be aware that Russia and China are inching closer to identifying a common enemy — the United States.

The two would-be superpowers held unprecedented joint military exercises Aug. 18-25. Soothingly named “Peace Mission 2005,” the drills took place on the Shandong peninsula on the Yellow Sea, and included nearly 10,000 troops. Russian long-range bombers, the army, navy, air force, marine, airborne and logistics units from both countries were also involved.

Moscow and Beijing claim the maneuvers were aimed at combating terrorism, extremism and separatism (the last a veiled reference to Taiwan), but it’s clear they were an attempt to counter-balance American military might.

Joint war games are a logical outcome of the Sino-Russian Friendship and Cooperation Treaty signed in 2001, and reflect the shared worldview and growing economic ties between the two Eastern Hemisphere giants. As the Pravda.ru Web site announced, “the reconciliation between China and Russia has been driven in part by mutual unease at U.S. power and a fear of Islamic extremism in Central Asia.”
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed092605a.cfm

From National Public Radio (NPR):
August 29, 2006
"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has been visiting countries such as China, Iran and Russia as part of an effort to build a 'strategic alliance' of interests not beholden to the United States. He considers the United States his arch enemy.":
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5729764

From the Russian News and Information Agency:
July 27, 2006
"'I am determined to expand relations with Russia,' Chavez, known as an outspoken critic of what he calls the United States' unilateralism, told the Russian leader, adding that his determination stemmed from their shared vision of the global order.":
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060727/51913498.html

From WorldThreats.com:
July 29, 2006
"Chavez pledged that his country would 'stay by Iran at any time and under any condition,' state television reported. Ahmadinejad said he saw in Chavez a kindred spirit." "'We do not have any limitation in cooperation,' Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying. 'Iran and Venezuela are next to each other and supporters of each other. Chavez is a source of a progressive and revolutionary current in South America and his stance in restricting imperialism is tangible.'":
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/29/world/main1847331.shtml

[kbennkc]

6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser ping .

[Uriah_lost]

Too many Americans are afraid and are willing to kick it down the road for our children to deal with it and so, won’t have your back.

[SampleMan]

Will. Its all about will. People don’t win fights because they are capable of winning them, they win fights because they fight them AND they are capable. Will modern Eurotrash fight? I very much doubt that they will. The Central Europeans will fight, but Germans, French, Belgians? I doubt it.

[WesternCulture]

“Nope! none whats so ever. Be my guest!”

- Skål/Cheers, honoured brother-in-arms and sincere greetings from Sweden, Scandinavia!

[ETL]

Or their Chinese allies with a military the size of our entire population and a growing technological capability.

Sorry, didn't see your response before I posted mine.

[Dutchboy88]

Let us guess, here. You belong to the DU and you would like to quote someone at FR saying, “Yeah, let’s bomb the world.”? I call Troll.

[ETL]

Regarding the two Russia-China joint war games I posted on, I just realized that both were in August (2005 and 2007). Now Putie Poo invades Georgia in August, 2008?

[yazoo]

So, you’re the conservative in Sweden. I’d heard rumors there was one.

[cripplecreek]

No problem. We have one hell of a mess to clean up before we ever even consider starting a major war with several adversaries. (Including one that's building and supplying a lot of our military equipment)

The Pentagon is increasingly buying planes, weapons and military vehicles from private contractors that outsource the manufacturing to plants in China and elsewhere in Asia, the report said. But when questioned by the commission, defense officials admitted that they do not have the ability to track where the components of military equipment are made.

"As weaponry gets more and more sophisticated . . . I think well find ourselves more vulnerable for parts that are being manufactured by an adversary.? It's really something the Pentagon needs to look at seriously," said commission member William A. Reinsch, president of the National Foreign Trade Council, which promotes free trade on behalf of businesses. Members said that the commission had never before delved so deeply into national security issues.

The report said China's military advances "have surprised U.S. defense and intelligence officials, and raised questions about the quality of our assessments of China's military capabilities."

In January, the Chinese military successfully blew up an old weather satellite. Some analysts said that was a signal that it could take out U.S. military satellites if a conflict broke out in the Taiwan Strait. China has also made attempts to blind U.S. spy satellites with lasers and is building a fleet of diesel-powered submarines that could sneak up on aircraft carriers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/15/AR2007111502120.html?hpid=sec-nation

[WesternCulture]

“Will. Its all about will. People don’t win fights because they are capable of winning them, they win fights because they fight them AND they are capable. Will modern Eurotrash fight? I very much doubt that they will. The Central Europeans will fight, but Germans, French, Belgians? I doubt it.”

- I agree we Westerners often seem to lack will.

A little bit too often, we appear to let the core elements of the civilization that has nurtured us down.

But just like Hitler and his associates found out, the evildoers of today will one day realize there is no stronger force on Earth than man’s desire for freedom.

Whoever you are, never hesitate to defend what you are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KHVeFs9Mto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2PXb7xKhcI

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

The Iraq experience has soured Americans on any notions of playing world police and liberators for another generation, at least. European reaction helped in the fermentation process.

Russia has about 10,000 nuclear weapons, (about 10,000 more than Sweden); no one is seriously contemplating messing with that either.

[Angry Write Mail]

All of Europe and at least half of the United States are sleeping. They dream Russia's aggression will stop with Georgia, and there will be peace in our time.

They dream Iran won't make good on its promise to launch a nuclear strike against Israel. The world is so much like it was in 1938.

Ravenous wolves prowl at our garden gates. Wolves understand only one thing - Someone with a big club whacking them upside the head. THAT they understand.

But don't awaken the good citizens of Europe and America to the truth. Their foolish dreams are so much more comforting to them. And after all, they're only sleeping.

[ETL]

This is from March 2008...

New Pentagon Report: China's Growing Military Space Power
By Leonard David
Special Correspondent, SPACE.com
March 6, 2008

GOLDEN, Colorado — A just-released Pentagon report spotlights a growing U.S. military concern that China is developing a multi- dimensional program to limit or prevent the use of space-based assets by its potential adversaries during times of crisis or conflict.

Furthermore, last year's successful test by China of a direct-ascent, anti-satellite (ASAT) weapon to destroy its own defunct weather satellite, the report adds, underscores that country's expansion from the land, air, and sea dimensions of the traditional battlefield into the space and cyber-space domains.

Although China's commercial space program has utility for non- military research, that capability demonstrates space launch and control know-how that have direct military application. Even the Chang'e 1 — the Chinese lunar probe now circling the Moon — is flagged in the report as showcasing China's ability "to conduct complicated space maneuvers — a capability which has broad implications for military counterspace operations."

To read the entire publication [29.67MB/pdf], go to (U.S. Dept of Defense) :
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pdfs/China_Military_Report_08.pdf

_____________________________________

Obama Pledges Cuts in Missile Defense, Space, and Nuclear Weapons Programs

February 29, 2008 :: News
MissileThreat.com

A video has surfaced of Presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama talking on his plans for strategic issues such as nuclear weapons and missile defense.

The full text from the video, as released, reads as follows:

Thanks so much for the Caucus4Priorities, for the great work you've been doing. As president, I will end misguided defense policies and stand with Caucus4Priorities in fighting special interests in Washington.

First, I'll stop spending $9 billion a month in Iraq. I'm the only major candidate who opposed this war from the beginning. And as president I will end it.[i.e. not win it]

Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending.

I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems.

I will not weaponize space.

I will slow our development of future combat systems.

And I will institute an independent "Defense Priorities Board" to ensure that the Quadrennial Defense Review is not used to justify unnecessary spending.

Third, I will set a goal of a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop new nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material; and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert, and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenals.

You know where I stand. I've fought for open, ethical and accountable government my entire public life. I don't switch positions or make promises that can't be kept. I don't posture on defense policy and I don't take money from federal lobbyists for powerful defense contractors. As president, my sole priority for defense spending will be protecting the American people. Thanks so much.

Article: Obama Pledges Cuts in Missile Defense, Space, and Nuclear Weapons Programs:
http://missilethreat.com/archives/id.7086/detail.asp

"MissileThreat.com is a project of The Claremont Institute devoted to understanding and promoting the requirements for the strategic defense of the United States."

_____________________________________________________________

Obama Promises to Dismantle Our Armed Forces
by Robert Maginnis
Posted 04/10/2008 ET

(Mr. Maginnis is a retired Army lieutenant colonel, a national security and foreign affairs analyst for radio and television and a senior strategist with the U.S. Army)

YouTube has an undated 52-second clip of Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barrack Obama outlining his plans for America’s national defense. Obama’s presentation demonstrates either total naivete about important national security programs or he is just pandering for votes among the extreme left.
[Maginnis does an excellent must-read analysis of Obama's suicidal defense proposals-ETL]
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=25942

Note: Here is the *original* youtube video from the Obama camp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE

Human Events, instead, refers to this poor quality copy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs

[pennboricua]

before that is even though of Europe will be bowing to Mecca and praising Mohammad

[WesternCulture]

“no one is seriously contemplating messing with that either.”

- It would take Sweden, the leading and most technologically nation of Scandinavia (if not of the world by per capita terms) - a sparsely populated corner of the Europe all the same boasting 125% of Russia’s GDP! - about one mont to become a nuclear power.

Already in the 1950’s Sweden had the ability of producing it’s own nuclear weapons, but we refrained from doing so.

The great thing about nuclear weapons is that they guarantee peace while sparing mankind from the horror of nuclear warfare.

I’m not wishing to disrespect anyone here but nuclear powers have actually been defeated by non-nuclear powers in war throughout history.

There are three such examples; the US (Vietnam), France (Algeria) and the Soviet Union (Afghanistan).

[manx]

I am married to a Russian, I have been to Russia several times and will probably be going back soon. We had my wive's whole family here this summer. They are all very nice people and I love Russia, but knowing them makes me understand this whole thing a lot better. Russia is a nation with a huge inferiority complex. I think it is because they were told for so long that they were a highly advanced super power then the gates were thrown open and they discovered they are only a third world county. Most people there that I know only earn $100 to $200 per month (including doctors) and they would give you the shirt off their back. However, the ones who were lucky enough to get a high paying job for an American or European company in Moscow suddenly think they are kings off the world and constantly have to prove they are rich and have all the latest technology.

I think they really think Blackberry phones and web social networks were all invented by and only used by russians. I got so tired of having them try to show off all their gadgets I ran out and bought an iPhone just to make them eat their hearts out and it seems it worked.

I took them to the Grand Canyon to camp for two nights I think it was killing for them just to see that we have miles and mile of well maintained roads through some of the most remote areas, like the Mojave Desert, and nice camp sights with tables, fire rings, bathrooms. From what I understanding going anywhere by car in Russia when away from Moscow is a pretty rough ride.

Never the less they still had to spend their time looking for something negative to say about America, but I suspect they were completely blown away.

I can't imagine it being difficult to take out their whole army if we wanted to risk a nuclear war, which they would lose also. Sure they have money from oil which makes an elite few in Moscow rich, but it isn't that much more than we produce per year.

So when I hear all of these threats from Russia all I hear is more of this inferiority complex, Russians trying to convince themselves they are still superior to everyone while their parents try to survive on a $100 a month pension threw dark depressing winters.

[MarMema]

I agree. It is not going away. What are we doing? Waiting around for it to get worse?

[Uriah_lost]

It’s like people that don’t pay their bills. They put it out of their minds and distract themselves with petty crap until the water gets cut off and then, suddenly, IT’S A CRISIS!!! and they go running to somebody, anybody to borrow and beg for a bailout....hmm....seen any of that lately?
Are we the only sane ones?

[MarMema]

I don’t know. I keep hoping the powers that be are planning ahead. Russia is on a binge and I don’t see things getting better. I hope and hope that there is a reason they are waiting, because I know that Russia is moving forward bigtime and her leaders are just as delusional as the nutjob in Iran.
Except Russia is much larger and possibly more delusional.

[MarMema]

Or maybe, payback is enroute...

For the first time yesterday, moderate opposition figures in the republic said they believe, in light of their colleague's death, secession from Russia was the only option left for Ingushetia. "We must ask Europe or America to separate us from Russia," said Magomed Khazbiyev, an opposition activist who has led a campaign demanding Mr Zyazivkov's resignation. That call was echoed by another unrecognized group, the People's Parliament of Ingushetia Mekhk-Kkhel.

[DaveTesla]

That video is creepy.

Our enemy's must be dancing in the streets.
Who in their right mind thinks that if America disarms
the world will follow suit?

Sick!

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

No sovereign nation has attacked the soil of a nuclear power, ever in history.

It would take a lot longer than one month for Sweden to become a nuclear power of any kind, years to be a creditable one. (Every country, like Iran, that has gone nuclear, has started off by gaseous diffusion. The process requires tens of thousands of centrifuges to produce a few weapons per year. The U.S. declassified the process in the 1950’s because they did not believe that anyone one would ever take that approach again. India, Pakistan, Israel, Iraq and Iran proved otherwise. How Sweden would go, I do not know.)

Sweden’s decision to refrain from going nuclear was a calculation, like refraining from joining NATO. In the event of a general war in Europe, neither calculation is going to spare Sweden.

Recently disclosed Soviet plans for a limited war in Europe show they assumed that virtually every country in Europe without nuclear weapons, including Sweden and Finland, (as well as Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc.) would be the target of numerous nuclear attacks. (I believe Switzerland was spared...)

Great Britain, the Soviet Union and France, of course, were spared.

[WesternCulture]

Russia has never been a great power in terms of economy.

Like pointed out above, the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Iceland and Norway) constitutes a larger economy than Russia of today, measured in total GDP - despite the fact these countries, all in all, have a combined population of only 25 million compared to the 140 million inhabitants of Russia.

How could Russia possibly defeat Scandinavia, Western Europe not to speak of the combined strength of the NATO in the long run?

Russia refuses to become part of Europe and still believes anything positive could come out of threatening its neighbors.

Speaking on behalf of the Nordic countries, we won’t be fooled - just like the brave nation of Finland knew exactly how to deal with Russian aggression some decades ago during the Winter War.

Before Russia could do Scandinavia any harm, tiny Sweden would wipe out both St. Petersburg and Moscow of existence by well orchestered assaults.

How?

By Excalibur missiles (manufactured by Borors in Karlskoga, Sweden)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-lj5QvZYBo

By stealth subs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khaa3y0i87s

By surperior fighter planes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-rutpyFF3I&feature=related

Population size has noting on technological superiority and production capacity.

“Tiny” Sweden is today one of the world’s largest producers of heavy trucks. Once air superiority is won over Russian soil, we could demonstrate what this means in terms of spewing out tanks.

Undeniably, Sweden has lost some battles against Russia (most notably the battle of Poltava in 1709), but Sweden has managed to limit the expansion of Russia to a much larger degree than Russia - despite having powerful allies - has restricted the development of Sweden.

Today, Russia has no allies at all among other European nations.

Not even Serbia.

[ETL]

That video is creepy. Our enemy's must be dancing in the streets.

Again, there are two videos making the internet rounds. One is the original, the other, a poor quality copy.

Here is the original youtube video from the Obama camp itself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o84PE871BE

And here is the poor quality copy which, as of today, 9/1/08, has about 7 times as many hits: 3.6 million vs 500,000:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs

However, the good thing about the copy, which some people doubt is authentic because of it's grainy texture and title; "IN 52 SECS WHY BARACK OBAMA WON'T WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION", is that is can't be deleted by the Obama camp. I would suggest copying and saving both. The original Obama camp video is titled: "Obama-Caucus4Priorities".

[redstateconfidential]

Russian soldiers “earn” $3 a month.

[boogerbear]

Russia still has nukes. They might lose in the long run but Sweden and most of Europe wouldn’t be around to know.

[WesternCulture]

“How Sweden would go, I do not know”

- Neither do I, but patriotic chauvinism left aside, I think it’s safe to say Sweden disposes of more nuclear power as awell as technological know-how per capita than any other nation on earth.

We are 9 million and begun developing a nuclear bomb of our own in the 1950’s (that was called off, for better or for worse).

I believe there’s an expression in English for this:

“Pretty cool”.

- What, me worry?

(Alfred E. Neuman)

[jude24]

Maybe its none of our business?

[boogerbear]

Nuclear wars can’t be won. At least not on the scale that would happen if the US and Russia went toe to toe. Maybe, one of these days, if we ever get a hardcore missile defense system going. But it would have to be hardcore, taking out 5000 missiles out of the atmosphere and with few of them going off (even out of the atmo that much release radiation could pose a problem) is a significant task.

This is why proxy war was invented. This is why we absolutely positively will never enter direct conflict with Russia. Both of us know that if the other side starts to lose a conventional war it will go nuclear, and we both know nobody wins a nuclear war, so instead we arm puppet countries to throw at each other, safer that way.

[WesternCulture]

“Nuclear wars can’t be won”

- By all means, an all out nuclear confrontation between the US and Russia would devaste the Earth.

But it won’t happen.

The world is crazy, but it’s not that mad.

However, by various means, the Russian leaders will continue to try and sell the Russian population the notion that Russia continues to decide upon the destiny of Europe.

It does not.

Even my Sweden excercises more influence over the development of

Russia is the laggard latecomer of Europe and anything resembling a corporation like Ericsson, Bofors or Nokia will probably never develop out of their perpetual tradition of domestic disorder and “snafu’s”.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

There’s a huge gulf between having a few nuclear weapons (North Korea?) and being a creditable nuclear power. I don’t doubt that Sweden has the resources or know-how, but it’s not an overnight process. The U.S. and Russia have three generations of extensive testing and production that cannot be duplicated overnight.

I do doubt that Sweden has the resolve to dedicate about 10% of its GDP for several decades to a development program.

In the 1980’s Saddam Hussein had about 100,000 people working full time on a nuclear weapons program for ten years and he did not succeed in even making a rudimentary device. He had many advantages over the U.S. 1940’s effort, including a known working design and help from Western countries like France in acquiring key components.

[IllumiNaughtyByNature]

Uh, you mean besides logistics?

[WesternCulture]

Sweden is nowhere near the total technological capacity of the US.

Still, there are certain areas where Sweden is ahead.

Two examples:

- Telecommunication

http://www.ericsson.com/technology/technologies_az.shtml

- Naval stealth technology

(see above)

But Russia?

If Sweden would have been given two years of preparation and would have been given full support by the nations sharing the same devotion to democracy which we do, this is what would’ve happened;

- Russia’s airforce would have been wiped out

- Russia’s Baltic navy would have been sunk

Once this is accomplished, there won’t be anyone in the Kreml fingering on firing buttons, because Moscow will
be abandonded and Russia west of Ural will be flooded by Swedish tanks.

Unlike the Nazis, we don’t fancy the idea of invading the largest country on Earth on horseback.

Russians are great individuals, but never allow them to form into a powerful nation.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

In re: Invading Russia on horseback.

The German Army that invaded Russia had 600,000 horses and 3,400 tanks, though anyone brought up on Hollywood History would think those numbers were reversed. Their tanks were distinctly inferior to the Russian T-34, which came as a nasty surprise to the Germans. (The t-34 was built on an American Studebaker truck chassis. The Russians were the best tank designers and builders of the War.)

The German weren’t mounted, rather they used the horses as draft animals to pull wagons. (Union Army General Sherman calculated that a team of horses could travel 100 miles (160 km) on a wagon hay, meaning a unit supplied by horses had a radius of operation of 50 miles.) The horse teams had to be supplied from Germany via rail. The horses were used for local distribution.

The roads and infrastructure of Russia in 1940 were probably best suited for invasion by “horseback”. Albert Speer in his memoirs points out that when he was in Russia the unit he was with was temporially cut off by a Russian counter attack. Although the Russian counter attack was quickly beaten back, they had briefly seized a key railroad bridge. Had the Russians destroyed that bridge they would have cut off the key and indispensible German supply and communication line and ended the war years earlier.

I forget the exact Russian superiority in armor in artillery versus NATO but the numbers were like 10:1. If the Russians had attacked in 1988, all they would have had to do was line their artillery up wheel to wheel and blast their way through to Spain. The only thing that could have stopped them was nuclear weapons. NATO attacks on Poland (communications, POL and tranportation centers) would have been answered by Soviet attacks on Germany. Things would quickly have escalated.

[justa-hairyape]

No sovereign nation has attacked the soil of a nuclear power, ever in history.

Gulf War I - Saddam fired Ballistic Missiles (Scuds) at Israel.

Recent Israel/Lebanon War - Hezbollah fired short range artillery rockets at Israel.

[boogerbear]

Maybe the world isn’t that crazy, maybe it isn’t. And really it’s not about the world, it’s about 1 or 2 world leaders, one nutty premier or general and WHOOPS 6 billion people dead.

Which is why we don’t go into direct conflict with serious nuclear powers. It’s just too risky. We never have and we never will.

[boogerbear]

You know what happens if you take out Russia’s air force and navy? They launch nukes. Why do you think they built those missiles, they’re the last line of defense. If it looks like they’re going to loose a conventional war on their homeland they WILL go nuclear, they’d have NO OTHER CHOICE. Nobody that’s spent that much money building nukes will allow themselves to be conquered, not by conventional means.

[tetuhe1898]

"Once this is accomplished, there won’t be anyone in the Kreml fingering on firing buttons, because Moscow will be abandonded and Russia west of Ural will be flooded by Swedish tanks."

Man, give up playing strategic games. Russians will hesitate no single minute to use its nukes against any invader they can't stop with the conventional weapons. There can be a conventional war between Russia and the West - but only if the Russians are victorious, and only till the moment they realize that they are losing it.

[justa-hairyape]

...so instead we arm puppet countries to throw at each other, safer that way.

I believe Russia is crossing the Rubicon on the proxy war MAD principal. They are helping Iran go Nuclear. Therefore, Iran could obliterate European city-states and Russia involvement will be deniable (we Russians had no idea those crazy Iranians would launch them). The Russian counter I believe is that they claim the US helped Pakistan go nuclear, but I have yet to see any solid evidence presented of that.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

Gulf War I is a good counter example although Saddam made a shrewd calculation that if Israel retaliated it would undermine support for the collation among Arabs. He didn’t see he had much to lose since he already faced overwhelming force, it was a desparation gamble and Israel didn’t bite. (Actually, he had a free shot a Israel.)

Hezbollah is not a soveriegn state, but a cat’s paw for Iran.

Let’s modify that to no attack on an acknowledged nuclear power.