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Radio Free NJ - Buying a First Shotgun ^ | T. Costell

Posted on 09/10/2008 3:49:23 AM PDT by sig226

A friend recently got a larger than expected royalty check from his publisher, and in passing asked me if I had any suggestions about the kind of shotgun he should consider buying as his first. opinion about shotguns?

I guess he doesn’t read my stuff much.

Deciding on a first shotgun is a straightforward process. And the first step is the same as any other firearm purchase. A liberal once asked me if I thought I had enough guns, and to his supreme annoyance I responded “enough for what?” That’s not a joke, it’s the first issue when choosing a firearm…what exactly are you going to be using it for? If you’re going to leave it under your bed as a home defense insurance policy that means one set of priorities, but if you plan on shooting skeet with it once a month, or using it to hunt deer and turkeys, that’s probably another. You may think that you’d like to do both things with it and that’s perfectly reasonable, but you should be aware that multitasking will come with some compromises. But before I get to that, there are a few things you should know about all shotguns.

If you read gun magazines it’s hard to find a reviewer who has too many bad things to say about any type of gun. That’s because the manufacturers give them the guns to review for free, and they’d like to remain in their good graces. Such is life in the media business under a capitalist system. But no one is paying me, or has ever offered to give me a gun for free, so I’m going to tell you exactly what I think. But if Browning, Perazzi, Krieghoff or one of the English gun makers would like to step up at a later time and “persuade” me to say otherwise, I’ll be more than happy to entertain the discussion.

Also, I’m normally happy to engage in debate with people who don’t agree with me, but in this case I know that passion for a specific firearm manufacturer can run pretty high. So if all you want to do is tell me that I shouldn’t be recommending this or that and should instead be suggesting something you think is better, why don’t you go start your own blog instead? I’m sorry but I’m not really all that interested. I’ll spell out my reasons for thinking the way I do, and if you think I’m a fool then so be it. But I hope you all can recognize that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and I’m describing only one way.

Selecting a Gauge

The gauge of a shotgun is defined as “the number of lead balls you would need in that diameter in order to have one pound of lead”. So a 12 gauge gun, by far the most common, is the largest bore, and the .410 is the smallest. There are 10 gauge guns out there too, and even guns that sport custom “super large” bores, but none of these should be considered as a first shotgun. There are a number of common gauges produced by quality manufacturers, but when just starting out I don’t think you need to worry about all that. All you really need to worry about is your size and your strength. In my opinion, if you’re a man of more or less normal size then you should almost certainly buy a 12 gauge as your first gun. In fact when it comes to the fairer sex, I would only recommend a smaller gauge for particularly petite women. As an example, my wife is tiny. She’s a pretty little Hungarian brunette who is 5’1” and weighs about 105 lbs. when dripping wet, and she can still shoot my 12 gauge semi just fine. The only issue is that it’s a little heavy for her so if she shoots it all day her arms are tired afterward. So I did recently break down and get her a 20 gauge gun so she can shoot it a little more.

Some people think starting with a smaller gauge is always a good idea but I disagree. Shotguns are designed to throw a spray of pellets, and the smaller the bore the smaller the pattern. So with a 20 gauge gun it’s harder to hit what you’re shooting than with a 12 gauge, no matter how skilled you are. A 28 gauge is also harder than a 20, and a 410 harder than a 28, and so on. Making it easy to hit what you point your first gun at is a good first concern if you ask me. So for anyone who weighs more than say, 130 lbs or so, I’d strongly recommend a 12 gauge as a first gun. If you’re under that then consider a 20 gauge, but remember that you’re starting with a small disadvantage.

Shotgun Price

As I told my friend, I’m a value for the dollar guy. I don’t think anyone should ever spend a nickel more than they have to when buying a gun. There are manufacturers out there who will build you a custom fitted shotgun to your body measurements and artistic specification and it will run you $75,000. To consider something like that for a first gun is stupid, even if you have the money. Even to think about one of the higher end factory guns seems a little silly to me when you’re still new at shooting. If you consider a Perazzi, or a Krieghoff, or even one of the nicer Beretta’s or Browning’s, you could easily drop $10,000. That makes no sense to me.

The design of gun you buy will affect the price. There are single shot shotguns out there for about $100, but there are many things you can’t do with them (including all the clay shooting sports) so I’d stay away from them if you can afford to. Pump guns are generally the cheapest repeating shotguns out there and can be had brand new from reputable manufacturers for as little as $250. Next are semi-automatic guns, and then the double barrel guns which are the most expensive in comparison. That isn’t to say they are pricey in dollar terms. I commonly shoot a Mossberg Over/Under Double barrel that I paid $400 bucks for. It’s a solid gun that I’ve put 10,000 rounds through without a hiccup. And just this morning I shot with a friend who was shooting a pump gun that cost twice that. In some ways, you’ll get what you pay for. You just want to make sure you’re not paying for features you don’t really want or need.

A Shotgun for Home Defense

In my opinion, the two biggest issues for a home defense shotgun are a short barrel, and a low price. Statistically, it’s unlikely you’ll ever fire a shot in your own home. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t keep a gun in your home if you feel the need, but it does mean that if you do, you probably won’t be using it all that much. If it were me, I wouldn’t want to have a several thousand dollar investment collecting dust under my bed. As for the short barrel, you don’t realize how small your house really is until you’re trying to swing a shotgun in your living room with a 32 inch competition barrel. In close quarters small is always a help.

If you’re buying a gun for home defense alone I’d recommend a Mossberg pump gun. Mossberg doesn’t make a pretty gun, but they have legendary reliability, and the click-clack of the pump is often more than enough itself to drive the average intruder away. Remington also makes a pump gun with first rate reliability but a slightly higher price. For my money, Mossberg will do everything you need. The US Army loves the Mossberg 500. And if there is one thing the army knows, its how best to go about shooting people. You’re unlikely to use a shotgun for just this purpose, but if you think you will, then I can’t say enough about the Mossberg.

A Shotgun For Multiple Uses

A single shotgun used for multiple purposes is a tricky business. In fact hunting alone could turn out to be more than one purpose because there’s a big difference between hunting pheasant and hunting deer. Lots of people have just one gun to do all of the above and for use to defend their homes, but there are a number of issues to consider.

The people I know who try to use one gun for everything usually end up buying a semi-automatic shotgun. A pump gun is cheaper than a semi, but the semi will give you a second shot just a bit more effortlessly. In that way its better suited to wing shooting where you should be concentrating on your target instead of worrying about short-stroking your pump. A pump can do it, but for the difference in price I think most people find it’s worth it to go with a semi.

When it comes to a semi automatic gun, I’m one of those people who is of a very strong opinion. I can only recommend one design… the recoil actuated semi-automatic shotgun designed by Benelli. There are a great many semi’s out there that use a gas actuated piston to reset the action after each shot. That design, produced by a half dozen manufacturers from Remington and Beretta, to Browning and others, has historically shown wonderful reliability when produced by a manufacturer with a good reputation. But as good as that design may be, it’s a bear to clean and it must be cleaned well in order to remain in good working order.

The Benelli design on the other hand has only 4 moving parts which drop out of the receiver frame without the use of tools. That design is so reliable that I know several guys who own them and have never cleaned theirs. But if they ever decide to, those few parts make it an easy task. It’s a lighting fast system that can handle any size of load, and makes a great all around design for a first shotgun. When the US Marines are issued shotguns, they are Remington or Mossberg pumps. When they buy their own shotguns they buy Benelli semi’s.

Of course brilliance doesn’t come cheap. The top of the line Benelli Semi-Automatic is not inexpensive, but I have a great way around that. A few years back a Turkish company hijacked the Benelli design, and starting building what probably amounted to illegal copies of it. When Benelli heard about it, they didn’t take them to international court; they bought them, and started offering the Turkish gun as a low priced model.

The Stoeger model 2000 has the same fantastically fast and reliable Benelli recoil action, but at a fraction of the Benelli price. It’s not as pretty and slick as the Italian styling of the new Benelli SBE, but it does look exactly like some older Benelli models, and is not unattractive. And in spite of it’s more traditional look, it has the same high performance works under the hood, and it shoots that way. The Stoeger 2000 will typically run you about ½ the price of the Benelli and offer the same functionality. You can find them here for as little as $450 or so. It’s a great buy, maybe the best in the shotgun industry. As a combination hunting and home defense gun I highly recommend it.

Its only weakness is that Benelli has yet to find a manufacturer for the “rifled slug barrel” they’ve been promising for a few years now. A rifled barrel will let you shoot slugs with a shotgun out to about 100 yards with dead shot accuracy. But since Benelli hasn’t gotten their act together, if you go with a Stoeger, then you’ll be forced to shoot slugs through your smoothbore giving you a best case accuracy of about 75 yards.

A Shotgun For Clay Shooting

I’ve never fired a shotgun in a home defense situation. If I exclude the high fence pheasant hunt I do with my friends every year then in the last 7 hunting seasons I’ve fired my shotgun at animals exactly twice. Even if I include it, I’ve probably only fired the gun 35 or 40 times. When hunting you don’t exactly burn through cases of ammo, there’s really no need. But last year on the skeet field at my club, I think I went through about 4,500 rounds of ammo, plus whatever my friends and other guests shot. And that’s the issue that defines the clay shooting sports; there is a lot of actual shooting going on. It’s high volume, over and over and over again. So the gun you select for that purpose should keep that in mind as a first concern.

If you try shooting that kind of volume through a pump gun or a gas driven semi, you’ll spend as much time cleaning that gun as you do shooting it. Even a Benelli or Stoeger Semi will require some careful attention after a while when it’s used that heavily. And while I personally have always felt that cleaning my guns was a zen like experience, sometimes you just have other places to be. So if you want a gun that cleans up quickly and easily, then there are really no bones about it, you want a double barrel gun.

The over under is the slightly more popular double barrel design these days, But in fact the finest grade guns available are almost all side by sides. I think the thing that makes them popular is that with an over under gun you can only see one barrel when you mount it to your shoulder, so it takes less time to get used to the view. In my house we have both. And they can both be used to great effect. No one will ever look down on your for showing up with one or the other. The gun I shoot most often is a Mossberg Silver Reserve Over Under, and my wife’s gun is a Stevens 311 Side by Side.

Double barrel guns cost more than pump guns or semi-automatics. But these days there are imports which are simple, reliable and inexpensive. My Mossberg was made in Turkey (Are you noticing a pattern here”) and Remington imports an over under from Russia which they sell under the Spartan label that I’ve heard people speak well of. Both are sturdy Boxlock designs with shell extractors instead of ejectors. An extractor is a simple device which lifts the shell from the chamber when the gun is opened, but you have to reach down there and remove them yourself. Ejectors are spring loaded mechanical devices that automatically kick the shells free for you. If you’re buying an inexpensive import, I’d stay away from a gun with ejectors since they can sometimes be subject to failure on inexpensive guns. I wouldn’t recommend them unless you’re prepared to pay up.

The triggers on double barrel guns also have several options. Many side by side guns have 2 triggers, one for each barrel. This takes some getting used to, but it works perfectly well. If you decide to go with a double trigger gun I’d recommend getting one that has a straight “English style stock”. It makes it slightly easier to adjust your finger for the second trigger. The Steven’s 311 my wife shoots came with double triggers and a pistol grip stock standard, but I replaced it with a straight style stock as a project.

As for the single triggers typical on over under guns, some are what’s called “mechanical” and others are designed to reset on recoil. Mechanical triggers are supposed to be stiffer and therefore less appealing, but I’ve found them to be more reliable in all circumstances so I still prefer them. You aren’t aiming a shotgun, you’re pointing it, so a stiff trigger isn’t so much of a hindrance in my mind. And if you have a gun with recoil triggers and for some reason the first shell doesn’t fire, the second one won’t be able to. With mechanical triggers at least you’ll get off one.

There are many types of guns out there and many many opinions on them. I like the cheap imported guns and have found them to be of excellent quality generally, but there are a lot of guys out there who would never consider them. Fair enough… more left for you and me. Also, I love buying shotguns online because it makes the firearms market more efficient and MUCH cheaper. These online gun auction sites:

should all be checked out when you decide to purchase one and it will save you a bunch of money. They can refer you to a “transfer agent” in your area, and it’s perfectly legal for you to buy them online if you meet all other laws and requirements that apply to you with regard to firearms purchases.

With that said though a shotgun still needs to fit you well. So I would highly recommend that before you buy anything, you go to a local firearms dealer and try them on. Stocks for factory guns all come in slightly differing lengths and sometimes come with space holders whcih can be added or removed to change the fit. And that fit is of paramount importance.

so go to a local store... pick one up, hold it, mount it, see how it feels tracking an invisible pheasant through the air. It’s really one of the most important aspects of a shotgun purchase. We aren't all built alike, and what suits me perfectly might not work for you. And in the meantime I’ve also had my local dealers agree to match prices that I showed them from the internet, so it might wind up saving you a trip as well.

The shotgun sports are my principle hobby so naturally I have alot more to say, but unfortnately I lack the time to say it. If you have any other questions, please leave them on the blog and I’ll answer them as soon as I can. After all, it's not exactly tough to get me to offer an opinion on shotguns.

Good Shooting.

TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist; frgc; frgunclub; shotguns
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To: tcostell

i’ll agree with that one. i have an 870 i picked up used for cheap, got a long bird barrel and a short slug barrel.
about all its used for is deer hunting, but its accurate enough i haven’t had to track a deer in a number of years.

41 posted on 09/10/2008 5:50:13 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ( Detroit: we're so bad, even our mayor is a criminal)
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To: Yo-Yo
It is a long colt round. If you go to the on-line dealers and click on long colt these CCI rounds will come up.
42 posted on 09/10/2008 5:55:37 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Vote McWhatshisname and PALIN)
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To: sig226; Joe Brower; Travis McGee; Squantos; Eaker
Mossberg doesn’t make a pretty gun, but they have legendary reliability, and the click-clack of the pump is often more than enough itself to drive the average intruder away.

Lost me right there.

There ain't gonna be no "click-clack" at my house.

Frankly, anyone perpetuating such a stupid tactic is giving bad advice.

43 posted on 09/10/2008 5:57:59 AM PDT by OKSooner
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To: Joe Brower
that's TV-tactics.

I stated this a few weeks ago and a few FReepers got their panties all wadded up.

It is stupid to give up the element of surprise especially when that and home turf may be about all you have on your side.

44 posted on 09/10/2008 6:04:23 AM PDT by Eaker (I'm voting for McCain because he is white.)
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To: sig226
If you only own one shotgun you can't go wrong with a good pump. Buy a Remington, Winchester, or my pick, a Mossberg 500. You can pick up a new one at Big 5 for a little over 200 with an 18.5” cylinder barrel, and a 28” mod choke bbl that will work for most bird shooting. After market additions include slug and adjustable choke bbls, various pistol or folding stocks etc. First, you have an excellent home defense gun. Bear in mind, a shotgun is best used to stop someone from coming through a door or window, not the best against someone already in your home as it can be akward in close spaces.

For bird shooting, clay or real, you will be at a slight disadavantage compared to a semi-auto, over-under, or side by side dbl. That's not a big deal unless you are shooting clays competitively. I have taken my Mossy clay shooting and had a blast. Yeah, some gun snobs look down their nose at a pump, but then some look down their nose at a semi-auto too. Once you get used to racking the gun between shots (in sporting clays you have two shots at two clays that are in the air at the same time) you can get pretty fast. And once you get that skill, using a dbl or auto just makes you better. In the field, real birds will be just as dead either way.

45 posted on 09/10/2008 6:09:58 AM PDT by Hugin (Mecca delenda est!)
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To: TexasNative2000
Well a lot depends on range. Most shotguns aren't much use beyond 100 yards, and many fall short before that. You can get a rifled barrle 20 gauge and a sabot to extend the range, but you still won't have performance that outdoes a black powder rifle by much and then you have a real specialty gun that canbe reused for other things. IMHO that's not the best use of your limited gun buying budget.

I think if I had my choice of anything I'd probably go with a 30 caliber ranch rifle...probably a 7.62x39. It can still kill a hog ay 5yards but can also reach out a little further if they decide not to let you get so close.

I actually live in New Jersey where we aren't aloowed to hunt with a rifle. I've used a 12 gauge Benelli Montefeltro with a slug for Black Bear, but I also wished I had a rifle.

46 posted on 09/10/2008 6:12:08 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE - - RadioFree NJ)
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To: Gilbo_3
The sixteen .30" pellets in #1 (2-3/4") buck have been demonstrated to be the smallest pellet size that "reliably" penetrates 12+ inches into ballistic gelatin. #1 buck has the edge over 00 on cross-sectional area as well 1.17" vs. .77" and creates 30% more wound trauma.

#4 hardened shot has good cross-sectional area, but does not "reliably" penetrate (only 7 to 10") to depths that inflict enough damage on the target to be considered lethal, though I still wouldn't want to be on the receiving end. My guess is that you are concerned with wall penetration as well. #4 will certainly get someone's attention, but if you don't want them to get back up again use #1.

47 posted on 09/10/2008 6:17:33 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: TexasNative2000
Go to the site and you'll find plenty of information for firearms & feral hogs.
48 posted on 09/10/2008 6:17:45 AM PDT by Deaf Smith
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To: Gilbo_3
I used to keep it loaded and locked, but figured the spring would ultimately get fatigued...or do you alternate the twins and give em 'off' days ???

The only twins I alternate are my wife's ;~).

Seriously though I haven't seen, or experienced anything that would lead me to believe that keeping a round chambered for a long period of time is detrimental to the operation of a weapon, but that does not account for the age of the weapon and any design or material flaws.

In all honesty, I change the ammo out in my weapons on a regular basis, by firing them. There is no excuse for not training with a weapon that you intend to use to save your life, should the need arise.

49 posted on 09/10/2008 6:24:01 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: Shooter 2.5
and the click-clack of the pump is often more than enough itself to drive the average intruder away.

If a home invader hears the click-clack of my shotgun, it means that I somehow managed to miss with the first shot.

50 posted on 09/10/2008 6:27:10 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution - 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: mbynack
00 tac buck, sounds like a possibility, as long as the penetration hasnt been reduced too much...winter clothing/vests need plenty of 'thump'...

Ill check it out...

51 posted on 09/10/2008 6:30:45 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 ("JesusChrist 08"...Trust in the Lord......=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: Gilbo_3
One loses any tactical advantage by giving away ones position by making noise. The problem isn't the question of whether the sound will drive an intruder away or not. The question is what "class" of intruder are we dealing with? Since the answer to this question is usually a complete unknown, the default and safe stance is assume that the invader is the worst type, and to maintain stealth and keep any advantage that we have by knowing the layout of our areas in the dark. Ditto for weapons lights (SureFire and Pelican type). If you "hit em" with the light, you have a choice to make.

1. ID the target as friend...don't shoot.
2. ID the target as foe...shoot.
3. Obtain no positive ID and relocate because at this point you have completely given away your position to an unknown.

Lest I be critized for over simplifying the above, I know that there are several other things that could happen. The perp could just run away after being discovered. If this happens, then by all means, let them go. The above points apply in home invasions ONLY.

Point #3 brings about another issue as well. Since you don't know the result of lighting up the target, one needs to have a spot pre-chosen to which to move, which maintains the tactical advantage. The light (if used properly) will rob the targets ability to track you to the new spot, and if you're quiet they won't hear you either.

The problem with the idea that we're going to scare zombies away by racking rounds into pump shotguns, and pointing lasers at them is that nobody is prepared for one of these zombies being a predator. Most might be petty thieves, and might be frightened away by the presentaion of mere sounds and light, but that one that doesn't will render the home defender completely unprepared, for it was this person that wasn't considered.

ALL zombies should be considered predators. It's a default safe assumption.

LFOD! :-)
52 posted on 09/10/2008 6:33:20 AM PDT by hiredhand
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To: sig226

ping for later

53 posted on 09/10/2008 6:34:23 AM PDT by Cruz
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To: bmwcyle

Sorry, my misunderstanding. A .45 Colt shotshell makes more sense. I’ve used the .38 CCI version myself.

54 posted on 09/10/2008 6:36:12 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: sig226
Here's a really good article on Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition.
55 posted on 09/10/2008 6:36:19 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: sig226
Mmmmm, shotguns!

My first, a Stevens .410/.22 over and under. I took a fair number of squirrels and rabbits with mine as a youth.

My second, my Uncle George gave me his Remington Model 11, a humpback of Browning engineering.

My safe currently has all the family shotguns including my Dad's 870 model in 12 gauge and my little sister's 20 gauge.

The first shotgun I bought for myself and my current favorite for attacking steel plates, when it's not standing by for home defense use, is a Remington 1100 Combat Master with a Speedfeed stock and a Surefire on the front.

56 posted on 09/10/2008 6:37:29 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution - 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Gilbo_3

Gilbo! :-) All I know is what my son tells me about his Mossberg 500. I don’t have a shotgun, and really don’t know much about them. He leaves his with a “full stack” in the tube magazine, with NO round in the chamber, with the hammer FORWARD. He also keeps five or six rounds on a “side saddle” ammo holder attached to the left side of the receiver. He was telling me though that eventually, the magazine spring will become compressed from leaving it loaded, and he’s in the process of getting some spares now. I told him just to pull it out and “stretch” it, and he didn’t seem to be pleased with my answer. :-) I’m not sure what he keeps it loaded with, but it kicks like a mule! They’re high brass shells and have 18 pellets....rather LARGE ones. I can use it, and do sometimes shoot it with him, but it tries to remove my arm from my shoulder! He’s a big man though and it doesn’t bother him. :-)

57 posted on 09/10/2008 6:38:10 AM PDT by hiredhand
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To: P8riot
In retrospect, the #4 was purchased while living in an apartment, and I had far less overall knowledge of shot and clinical wound ballistics...[geez those rounds are old, lolol]

Now in old farmhouse [plaster walls, solid doors] with no nearby neighbors, so prolly time to change the requirements, especially regarding the availability and use of vests recently...

Hows that 00 'tactical' buck spoken of earlier compare with standard #1 shot ???

58 posted on 09/10/2008 6:39:02 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 ("JesusChrist 08"...Trust in the Lord......=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: bmwcyle

How much (ballpark) are those .45 auto shotshells? I’ve got a Colt Series 80. Do you think they’ll cycle well through it? We’ve had a problem with snakes this year and have seen and killed more than our fair share during our wood cutting outings. I keep SWCs in the pistol most of the time, but it’s about impossible to hit a snake with the things, especially if it’s moving!

59 posted on 09/10/2008 6:41:07 AM PDT by hiredhand
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To: Shooter 2.5
Ping to #52. Yeah....r-i-g-h-t. They're going to just run away when they hear the big, scarry noise of the pump shotgun being loaded. :-)

...and if they DON'T?.

I agree with YOU. This attitude will get somebody killed.
60 posted on 09/10/2008 6:45:07 AM PDT by hiredhand
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