Posted on 09/10/2008 3:49:23 AM PDT by sig226
I would direct you to P8triots # 49 & 55 as well...for added info on parts fatigue/ammo...
http://www.knoxx.com/index2.html
About $13.00 for 10 rounds.
I enjoy learnin somethin new everyday, now if I could just stop forgettin two things as well...hehehe
I haven’t tried any 00 ‘tactical’, but simple physics tells me that less recoil (attributed solely to the ammo load, not the gun design) indicates less energy put to the target. This effect decreases as distance increases, but at typical defensive shotgun distances I want the most energy on the target.
Thanks for the assist.
The major reason magnum shells were developed was to increase shot mass. This was necessary due to environmentalist wackos that succeeded in getting the use of lead shot restricted in favor of shot with less specific density, such as steel and bismuth.
Yup, Winchester 1300, with 00 Buckshot. Load 2&4 duplex if you’re not sure the shooting will all be inside. I’ve shot mine many times and only taken it apart once. It cleans with a spray can of Rem. Oil and compressed air quite nicely.
The little champagne-bottle *POP!* from the igniter cartridge of an M2A1-7 flamethrower makes a pretty good attention-getter, too. I doubt that most of those who've heard one just a little too late to do much of anything about it knew exactly what it was, but had at least SOME idea that it was not a sign of Good News.
Two nights ago, I had an intruder in the house at about 0430 hrs. That's the third time in my life I've had to deal with that situation. My approach is to light the place up like the 4th of July. All the lights go on. I get big and loud. I get angry. I issue simple, direct, and clear commands, and I've done it in two foreign languages. So far the technique has resulted in the sounds of panicked flight, and a perp taken into custody a few blocks away. I'm not interested in effecting an arrest. I would prefer to avoid having some perp’s entrails draped over my new sofa. I don't do “sweeps,” or shoulder rolls into the living room. I don't use lasers or weapons mounted lighting systems. We have too many “innocents” living with us, coming and going at all hours. I don't want a laser guiding the muzzle of my shotty to the chest of a family member. That's the rules of engagement for our house. It will, no doubt, be different for somebody else's. It's all situational.
In my State, you have to be very careful of Nr. 2. It's against the law here to even threaten the use of deadly force if it doesn't involve countering a direct threat to your life. Use a gun to stop someone from stealing your car in the driveway, or the TV from your living room, and the law will put you in jail. Everyone needs to understand that when the Sheriff arrives, you must be prepared to make a credible statement to the effect that you feared for your life.
Not necessarily. Remember that more power in a shotgun shell can also mean more muzzle flash at night, as well as the possibility of larger or *blown center* [doughnut-shaped ring] patterns with less than full coverage of an intended target. Lower recoil buckshot and slug loads may be easier on the gun as well, and the lesser recoil can allower shorter recovery time from recoil, allowing a faster shot on a second or third target, or a quicker second follow-up shot on a deserving initial target.
That's not at all to say that the lower recoil rounds are always or should often be the first choice for every shooter, in every shotgun. But they're certainly worth consideration, particularly if they happen to pattern well or better in your partiucular gun.
L
Cool...I think I get some. Thanks! :-)
Like I said, I hadn’t tried any. I prefer to stick with what I know works. I can appreciate that lower recoil is less wear on the gun and that it affords quicker follow-ups, but if you look at some of the muzzle energy ratings of a lot of the tactical stuff out there it is still less than #1 shot. Still less energy on target. No doubt that it is effective though.
The standard 12 gauge [or *gage* if you prefer the US Army spelling] load for a shotgun is the 9-pellet M162 OO buckshot round, each pellet being about .33 caliber in diameter. Muzzle velocity from the military 12-gage load runs around 1,450 FPS from a military-standard 20-inch barrellede shotgun.
The Winchester commercial equivalent is their 12 Gauge, 2-3/4" LG., SUPER X, BUCKSHOT, 00 BUCK, 9 PELLETS, # XB1200. Their Reduced Recoil OO Buck load is the Winchester 12 GUAGE, 00 BUCK, 9 PELLET, REDUCED RECOIL, #RA12005.
Remington does things a little differently: their reduced recoil OO Buck offering is the Remington 12 Gauge, 2-3/4" , MAX DR., BUCKSHOT, REDUCED RECOIL, 00 BUCK, 8 PELLETS, # RR128B00. Their full-power OO buck loading is the Remington 12 GAUGE, 2-3/4" LG., MAX DR., BUCKSHOT, 00 BUCK, 9 PELLETS, # 12BK00.
Moving on to the #1 buckshot loads, there are generally two power levels available: the standard 16-pellet load carrying 16 pellets of approximately .30 caliber, or the 2¾-inch magnum load which uses 20 of the .30 pellets.
The Remington 16-pellet load is Remington 12 Gauge, 2-3/4" , MAX DR., BUCKSHOT 16 PELLETS, HIGH POWER, # 12B1.
As for the effectiveness of the various loads, that depends to a large extent on which one offers the best pattern in your particular gun at the range at which you expect to use it: I use 20-pellet #1 loads in one of my shotguns, 8-pellet Remington low-recoil *lites* in a second, and standard M162 OO Buckshot in the other two...because those loads work best in those particular guns.
As for which is most useful from the standpoint of wound ballistics effectiveness, this 10-year-old Tactical Brief from the Firearms Tactical Institute is still pretty much valid, though the 20-pellet #1 buckshot loads are pretty hard to locate nowadays.
"12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.
Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.
Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.
Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 ¾-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.
If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.
Fourth choice is any 2 ¾-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not."
What, you don't have a Nomex slip cover on your sofa and recliner?
This is something that is a primary concern with all ammunition that I use.
Hello gentlemen...sorry for my self-inflicted hiatus...
I have several of the fine offerings of Mossberg; two 500A’s and one 590, specifically for those potential nocturnal “Repel Boarders” moments.
The 590 is the standard military version, but with a side saddle added on that holds a quick extra 6 rounds. That’s in the bedroom at night (chambered - no racking needed), backed up by a Glock 21 with a Surefire on it in the headboard.
Regarding the other two, the 500s: one has a folding stock, marine coat, 18” barrel. The other has a fixed stock, 18” barrel, and is matte (parkerized). My kids handle those well, should they need them, and can get to them instantly.
Also have an old, old, OLD Harrington & Richardson 20 gauge bolt action that I don’t bring out too often. It didn’t cost much brand new way, way back in the day (lower end gun), but it’s got sentimental family value to me, and is quite the lovely old piece.
I also have an “Organic Alarm System” - they make lots and lots of noise, slobber, and sleep on the middle floor of the house. Anyone coming in, either on the first floor or trying to come in on the middle floor, has to get through them first without waking them (not easy)...then, if successful, they’ll deal with a fully awake and thoroughly armed entire family on the top floor.
Suffice to say, it would be bad...very bad...as I taught my family - “This Unit Must Survive”....
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