Skip to comments.Ranch owner waives preliminary hearing in deaths of 32 bison
Posted on 09/12/2008 10:57:24 AM PDT by george76
A Park County rancher on Friday waived his right to a preliminary hearing and asked to enter a plea in the slaughter of 32 bison owned by his neighbor.
Its hard to find anyone here sympathetic to Hawn.
(Excerpt) Read more at summitdaily.com ...
Any idea what the possible sentence could be?
A hunter would have taken at least the skin and horns and butchered the carcass for the best cuts of meat. These appear to have been wasteful killers.
Aztlan shooters left dead buffalo on BLM, USFS lands plus on various other people’s private property.
charged with theft and 32 counts of aggravated animal cruelty
Colorado is a Fence Out State. Most Western states are. If you dont want livestock on your property, it is legally your responsibility to build an adequate fence to keep them out. Right or wrong that is the way it is.
That sucker isnt going to get any slack from juries in that area. People there in South Park dont cotton to the outsiders with luxury houses there anyway.
Mackey’s a smart lawyer, looks like she’s saving Hawn some money by going to the plea hearing.
What do you think the plea bargain will be, George. I’d wager he’ll pay restitution and a fine and get a little probation.
Do you have any evidence that the Free Range laws apply to Bison? I know that they typically only apply to cattle, horses and sheep. I know that Free Range Law does not apply to dogs, and wild animals for instance. I guess the question is whether Buffalo are considered domesticated or not.
I hope he spends at least a little jail time in the same cell as Bubba.
This guy is a bozo and under no way should be allowed to claim ignorance. note this excerpt from the Park County, Colorado web site, The code of Park County:
“Ranchers often work around the clock, especially during calving and haying seasons. Hay is often swathed or baled at night and ranch equipment may be in constant use during the period. Livestock are sometimes moved along or across highways and county roads. Courtesy dictates that you pull over and patiently allow the livestock to pass. After all, the cows were here first. Colorado has an open range law which means ranchers are not required to keep livestock fenced in. If you do not want cattle, sheep or other livestock on your property, it is your responsibility to fence them out.....What else can we say? If you choose to live in the rural countryside, enjoy the scenery and remember, this is the real West!
Do not expect county government to interfere with
the normal operations of our ranching community. Colorado has Right to Farm legislation that protects farmers and ranchers from nuisance and liability lawsuits and allows them to continue producing food and fiber, regardless of how new residents feel about their country neighbors.
I hope he does too, he deserves it but I wouldn’t bet on it.
I would have been inclined to shoot a few of the bison. (I wouldn’t have left them there to rot, though....I love bison meat. I eat at Ted’s Montana Grill every chance I get.)
“Fence Out” is an antiquated concept that is past its time. I’m surprised that Colorado hasn’t changed to “fence in” status.
Probably restitution, fine, and no jail time. The judge should order this guy to build a bison-proof fence all around his property, and to serve 1,000 hours of community service in an animal shelter.
As I recall, he did have fence up that would keep "cattle, sheep or other livestock" off his property, but Bison are a completely different story, and the property owners claims and complaints were totally ignored.
Shooting the Bison was wrong, but at least half the blame belongs to the Bison owner.
Evidence? What kind of question is that? It is common knowledge. No it does not apply to wild animals, that is why they call them wild. You cannot own wild animals. The law pertains to owned livestock. The law favors the livestock owner. The law places the burden on farmers and outsiders who come into range land.
Here. There’s the evidence. Colorado fence Law.
Dogs? Well in this part of the country, you keep your dog at home. If your dog is found amongst my baby calves. The dog will die there. What dog? We did not see any dogs around here. He musta just gone up in the brush and died somewhere. I doubt you’ll ever see him again, big cat probably ate him.
“Hawn said the bison knocked his satellite television dishes off-line and left dung, tracks and hair on pristine pasture on rolling hills.
Tsk, tsk. Except for the satellite dishes are not those some of the same excuses used for exterminating the natives? I wonder if I could use the same excuses to shoot some of the ‘wildlife’ in my neighborhood.
I am surprised that Hawn did not pay for the buffalo his AZTLAN shooters killed.
Likely less money than his legal bills.
In an arrest warrant, investigators say the bulk of the bison 14 of them were killed on land owned by Catherine Pimm.
Eight were killed on Bureau of Land Management property, four on U.S. Forest Service property, three on property of Robert Lemm and three on Hawn’s ranch.
Well, I happen to live just across the state line from Colorado. My property is in a Fence In state. Our law says that we have to contain our livestock within our property and be responsible for damage that they do if they get out. But that is not the law in Colorado.
We had a neighbor who was bound and determined to put his bulls next to a pasture where I was keeping a bunch of heifers. He didnt have to, he just did it to be ornery. Well they rode the fence and when the heifers came into heat they broke the fence and headed for the heifers who were too young to breed. We called him, he laughed. I hollered at a couple of the boys, they saddled up, roped the offending bull, castrated him right there and then ran him home and fixed the fence. The neighbor was sorely pi$$ed over that but he never said anything. Soon after that he moved the bulls to another pasture. That is the way it works.
Hawn inflamed the situation by hiring illegal alien activists to slaughter his neighbor’s livestock.
Mr. Hawn has 32 criminal charges against him... The property Mr. Hawn owns isnt used as a ranch; its just a vacation area. In the first place, a rancher doesnt hate animals and KILL them!
There isnt any one that knows that the buffalo did any damage to anything; theyre just guessing.
It could have been a herd of elk that stays in that area; or even Hawns horses rubbing on his solar panels and TV dishes could have been the problem.
That’s a great story.
I would have done the same thing. First time, you get a warning; second time, your animls disappear.
I wouldn't have wasted so much meat though.
the bulk of the bison 14 of them were killed on land owned by Catherine Pimm.
Eight were killed on Bureau of Land Management property, four on U.S. Forest Service property, three on property of Robert Lemm and three on Hawns ranch.
When you move into an area, you better know what the laws are. The law says if you don’t want bison on your property, you should put up a fence to keep those bison out or move back where you came from.
The question is whether Buffalo are considered domesticated livestock or not. I would say no and you’re saying yes.
The state law calls for three barbed wire fencing. Not 10 foot high steel posts with 1/2 inch cable fencing.
>Eight were killed on Bureau of Land Management property, four on U.S. Forest Service property, three on property of Robert Lemm and three on Hawns ranch.<
Or is that where they wandered off to and died there?
Imagine the Indians killing them with bows and arroows. That must have been a sight.
Lawful Fence C.R.S. § 35-46-101(1) defines a "lawful fence" as a "well-constructed three barbed wired fence with a substantial post set at a distance of approximately twenty feet apart, and sufficient to turn ordinary horses and cattle, with all gates equally as good as the fence..."
Obviously a three barbed wired fence won't stop a buffalo. A buffalo isn't an ordinary horse or cow. So if the homeowner had a three barbed wire fence then I would have to side with the homeowner.
Dogs? Well in this part of the country, you keep your dog at home. If your dog is found amongst my baby calves. The dog will die there. What dog? We did not see any dogs around here. He musta just gone up in the brush and died somewhere. I doubt youll ever see him again, big cat probably ate him.
Same here with buffalo : ) After about the second or third time someones buffalo comes through my fence (second time if they didn't immediately pay for damages the first time) I will have to buy an extra freezer or two and have big barbecue parties : )
I think the rancher is going to have a tough time proving that a buffalo is equivalent to a domesticated horse or cow.
Lets keep an eye on it and see how it plays out. Remember the dude is an outsider. The rancher is a home boy. The jury is the ranchers neighbors.
I am curious what the decisions will be.
Me too. I'll ping you if I see how it plays out and I remember : )
My guess is that they are in trouble because they didn't shoot the buffalo while the buffalo were on his property. That is what gets people riled up. If that had been the case I doubt it would have even made the news, much less criminal charges.
The Colorado law does not distinguish by species. It applies to OWNED livestock. If the rancher OWNED the buffalo, then that is the end of the story. If the jury considers those buffalo as OWNED LIVESTOCK, then they are not wild and the law applies to them. Likewise, the dude is required to build a fence CAPABLE OF KEEPING THEM OUT. The buffalo were there before he was. Park County regulations make that clear.
The 3 wire fence is mentioned merely as a MINIMUM. If more is needed then he should build an adequate fence capable of holding them out. Three strands of barbed wire and 20 feet between posts is sure a MINIMUM FENCE. Any rancher will tell you that you dont space fence posts more than a rod apart (16.5 feet), and most fences where buffalo are held are at least 5 wires with wood posts every rod and steel posts half way in between. The dude will not win because the local people will not allow that sort of precedent to happen.
> The dude will not win because the local people will not allow that sort of precedent to happen.<
I think you answered the true reason right there.
by law (as I have researched, but if there is a laywer out there, feel free to correct me) if your neighbors livestock wanders onto your property you are entitled to corral it and charge him the cost of maintaining it until he retrieves it. You do not get to hirte a bunch of illegals to begin shooting it on your property and then chase it onto a thrid party’s and federal property killing as you chase, then leave the carcasses to rot.
BTW, Park county had record snowfall this winter with 25 foot snowdrifts. All kinds of critters were walking over the tops of all kinds of legal fences
The complaints and damage claims were being completely ignored. As far as corralling the bison, see below.
Park county had record snowfall this winter with 25 foot snowdrifts. All kinds of critters were walking over the tops of all kinds of legal fences
The bison weren't walking over the neighbors fences on the snow, the bison were ripping the regular livestock fence apart, then continuing on their way destroying anything else they ran across.
As I said, shooting the bison was wrong, but the bison owner gets as much, or most, of the blame in my mind.
As it should be.
I’m not quite sure I agree with it. If I bought the property next to yours and had no livestock for five years. Then I purchase 20 buffalo. Would you consider me rude for expecting you to fence out my livestock? Or should I fence in my livestock?
Buffalo, as humongous as they appear to be are just the opposite. They hop six foot fences as easy as a cat does.
Get off the lawn before I call a cop!
Bison leaving footprints is a serious problem. Some make crank calls and knock on the door and run.
No wonder Hawn felt he needed protection.
Hawn qas exasperated, “We didn’t move way out here to have animals around”! “Don’t get me started about those eagles”
Well the dude moved in to established ranch country. The buffalo were there when he came. I suppose that newbies moving into an area and buying 3 acre “ranches” would end up just causing trouble for the sake of causing trouble and it would probably end up in civil court.
I suppose that if I had a hundred thousand acres, and you moved in and bought a hundred thousand acre ranch next to it, then that would be different. But most people couldnt afford to buy a hundred thousand acres like the ranches here and then leave them empty. We are talking real working ranches, up in South Park, and they probably run 20,000 to 30,000 acres. If your buffalo bothered me, I’d pen them and charge you enough for handling fees that youde take care of them after that. That is the way it is done.
I have worked around cattle and around buffalo. Buffs can jump a fence, but when the wind blows, and especially when there is a blowing blizzard, they put their heads down and walk into the wind. If they come to a fence, they simply bulldoze right on through it like it wasnt even there.
The thing that I’m not seeing here is, how much property did the dude have? The AP is calling him a rancher, but he has a luxury vacation home there and the buffs put hair on his satellite dish? This sounds to me like the dude has a piece of land big enough to build a house on, maybe a couple acres..............if that is the case, then it is certainly a misnomer to refer to him as a rancher. My gut feeling is that the dude has no livestock as he is a cyber geek of some sort. He is what we call a Rexall Cowboy, all hat and no cattle...... :)
I am going to email some friends up there and see if they know just how much land the dude has. I bet it doesnt qualify as a ranch.
Says that if a fence is necessary to be built on a property line that each party has to pay their half of it, and have to maintian their half of it. So, yes, you are right on both counts, the law would say that a fence had to be built, and you would have to pay for half of building and maintaining it.
I think you’re looking at this quite nicely. I buy the buffs and you have to pay half to fence them out while I would have to pay for the other half of building and maintaining it.
It’s nice when neighbors step up and pay half the fencing costs of their ranching neighbor. In Texas, I had to pay all the costs.
Well, I dont think that it has to do with nice. In a ranch community where the ranchers are neighbors, they would talk it over between them before doing something that is most likely gonna cause trouble. If it was going to certainly cause trouble, then they probably wouldnt do it in the first place, or they would take steps to corral the buffalo so that they didnt get away.
What I was pointing out was, that is the colorado law. Even tho Kansas is a Fence In state, if it is necessary to have to build a NEW FENCE, then both parties have to share the cost. It is just state fence law.
The law says if you dont want bison on your property, you should put up a fence to keep those bison out or move back where you came from.
Crapola- I don't woryy about buffalo, but I do shoot neighbors dogs because I don't want them damaging my property. The neighbor gets one warning. That's it. My property, my rules.
Maybe the key point of this article is that Colorado is considered an OPEN RANGE state. Most of the big outfits dont have fences between them, the cattle roam. Highways are fenced in places, and in other places you cross cattleguards and drive and drive and drive. Livestock has the right of way, and if they choose to lay in the road, then you have to slow or stop and honk or drive around them to get through. It is the local custom and the law of the land there. Because Colorado is an open range state, then that is why it is also a FENCE OUT STATE. The court will tell the dude he didnt do his research before he moved there. If you dont like buffalo in your yard, then dont go build a house in a buffalo ranch.
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