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Bullet analysis casts doubt on lone gunman in JFK assassination (Dallas Morning News)
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/091408dnmetjfkbullets.da2836.html ^

Posted on 09/13/2008 8:28:59 PM PDT by Doug TX

........... The professor of statistics at Texas A&M University organized a six-member team that compared the composition of bullet fragments from the JFK shooting with other bullets from the same manufacturer.

The group found that those fragments weren't nearly as rare as the government's expert witness concluded in 1976, when Dr. Vincent P. Guinn determined that all five fragments came from two bullets fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. A third shot missed.

"The claim was made that those five fragments could only have come from two bullets," Dr. Spiegelman said. "Our research showed it could have been two or more.

"And if it is more than two, there is an increased likelihood that someone else provided one of them."

....Hence the title of the group's paper: "Chemical and Forensic Analysis of JFK Assassination Bullet Lots: Is a Second Shooter Possible?" The team was honored by the American Statistical Association with its 2008 Statistics in Chemistry award.

The study doesn't say there were two or more gunmen, only that the single-gunman theory can't be supported by science.

(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: conspiracy; jfkassassination; lonegunman
Doesn't sound sexy, but interesting nonetheless.
1 posted on 09/13/2008 8:28:59 PM PDT by Doug TX
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To: Doug TX

If not for Ruby, Oswald might have finally found the “real killers.”


2 posted on 09/13/2008 8:31:10 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Doug TX

LOL! LBJ didn’t have those assasination records sealed until 2017(?) for nothing!


3 posted on 09/13/2008 8:31:20 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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arnold sphincter’s foney-baloney theory has always been a poor joke....


4 posted on 09/13/2008 8:35:04 PM PDT by raygunfan (obama, and biden, they palin in comparison...)
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To: Doug TX
Alaska Senator Hollis French (D) has just issued an inquiry as to the whereabouts of Governor Palin during the Kennedy assasination. French hopes to have subpoeneas issued by the middle of the week.


5 posted on 09/13/2008 8:38:20 PM PDT by The Iceman Cometh (McCain is looking better every passing day.)
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To: Doug TX
"Our research showed it could have been two or more."

...and monkeys could fly out of by ass, but they don't. Do these people have anything better to do with their time? I guess not.

6 posted on 09/13/2008 8:46:33 PM PDT by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: Doug TX
"Our research showed it could have been two or more."

...and monkeys could fly out of by ass, but they don't. Do these people have anything better to do with their time? I guess not.

7 posted on 09/13/2008 8:46:34 PM PDT by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: Doug TX

“Our research showed it could have been two or more.

“And if it is more than two, there is an increased likelihood that someone else provided one of them.

And if it was more than 20, there is an increased likelihood that the shooting happened in DC /s


8 posted on 09/13/2008 8:49:46 PM PDT by stocksthatgoup (No Way, No How, NoBama)
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To: Doug TX

Not this crap again. This crime is SOLVED.

Oswald is as Guilty as O.J. for anyone who takes the time to READ, and not just the kook crap.

P.S. I LOVE Oliver Stone’s JFK - One of the best BLACK COMEDY’S (unintentional) EVER. EVERYONE is involved in the conspiracy, it’s a RIOT!!!


9 posted on 09/13/2008 8:53:02 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: Doug TX

Newsflash, DNC lawyers discover it was Sarah Palin on the grassy knoll.........


10 posted on 09/13/2008 8:53:23 PM PDT by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: killjoy
...and monkeys could fly out of by ass, but they don't.

If you make a claim like that you're going to have to cite your source and post a link.

11 posted on 09/13/2008 9:01:20 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (OBAMA: He was a flop before he became a flipper.)
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To: Doug TX
Cancer man shot Kennedy from a sewer and then started smoking Morley cigarettes, again. End of story:)
12 posted on 09/13/2008 9:04:29 PM PDT by webrover
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature

goatsee?


13 posted on 09/13/2008 9:04:30 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: Doug TX
Lee Harvey Oswald
From wikipedia (with references at site) :

Around the age of fifteen, he became an ardent Marxist solely from his private reading on the topic. He wrote in his diary, "I was looking for a key to my environment, and then I discovered socialist literature. I had to dig for my books in the back dusty shelves of libraries."[13] At 16 he wrote to the Socialist Party of America, stating that he was a Marxist who had been studying socialist principles for "well over fifteen months," and asked for information about their youth league.[14]

While in the Marines, Oswald was trained in the use of the M1 Garand rifle. Following that training, he was tested in December of 1956, and obtained a score of 212, which was 2 points above the minimum for qualifications as a sharpshooter. In May 1959, on another range, Oswald scored 191, which was 1 point over the minimum for ranking as a marksman.[17]

Small and frail compared to the other Marines, he was nicknamed Ozzie Rabbit after the cartoon character. His shyness and Soviet sympathies alienated him from his fellow Marines. Ostracism only seemed to provoke him into being a stauncher, more outspoken communist. For his steadfast beliefs, his nickname ultimately became Oswaldskovich.

Life in the Soviet Union

In October 1959, Oswald immigrated to the Soviet Union. He was nineteen, and the trip was planned well in advance. Along with having taught himself rudimentary Russian, he had saved $1,500 of his Marine Corps salary,[19] got an early "hardship" discharge by (falsely) claiming he needed to care for his injured mother,[20] got a passport, and submitted several fictional applications to foreign universities in order to obtain a student visa (and possibly help avoid Marine Corps reserve duty).

After spending only three days with his mother in Fort Worth, he departed by ship from New Orleans on September 20, 1959, for the Soviet Union, first arriving in Le Havre in France, then to London,England and eventually Oswald to a Finnair flight to Helsinki, Finland as part of a package tour. Oswald landed to Helsinki airport in October 10 at 23.30 a.m. he registered at the Hotel Torni but two days later , he moved to the Kurki Hotel.Oswald applied for a visa at the embassy on October 12, his first business day in Helsinki. Oswalds visa was issued on October 14. It was valid until October 20 and permitted him to take one trip of not more than 6 days to the Soviet Union. He left from Helsinki Central Railway Station by train next day on October 15 to Moscow and when he crossed the Finnish-Russian border at Vainikkala, he arrived to Moscow on October 16." [21] When he arrived in the Soviet Union and showed up unexpectedly at the Embassy in Moscow, he said he wanted to renounce his U.S. citizenship.[22][23] When the Navy Department learned of this, it changed Oswald's Marine Corps discharge from "hardship/honorable" to "undesirable."[24]

Oswald told a reporter in Moscow, "For two years I've had it in my mind, don't form any attachments, because I knew I was going away. I was planning to divest myself of everything to do with the United States."[25] To another reporter he said, "I would not consider returning to the United States," and referred to the Soviet government as "my government."[26] His wish to remain in the Soviet Union was initially applauded by the Soviets, but although he had some technical knowledge acquired in the Marines they soon discovered he had little of real value to offer the Soviet Union and his application for Soviet residency was rejected.[27] In response, Oswald made a bloody but minor cut to his left wrist in his hotel room bathtub. After bandaging his superficial injury, the cautious Soviets kept him under psychiatric observation at the Botkin Hospital.[28][29] Although this attempt may have been no more than an attention-getting ruse, the Soviet government feared an international incident if he were to attempt something similar again.

New Orleans

Oswald returned to New Orleans, arriving on the morning of April 25, 1963 looking for work. After Oswald got a job as a machinery greaser with the Reily Coffee Company in May, Marina was driven there by family friend Ruth Paine. Oswald was fired for inefficiency and dereliction of duty on July 19.

During this period, Oswald began to consider returning to the Soviet Union or going to Cuba.[57] He had Marina write to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C. about the possibility of their returning to the Soviet Union.[58] His Marxist ideals became focused on Fidel Castro and Cuba and he soon became a vocal pro-Castro advocate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald

14 posted on 09/13/2008 9:05:56 PM PDT by ETL (Smoking gun evidence on ALL the ObamaRat-commie connections at my newly revised FR Home page)
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To: word_warrior_bob
The problem with the conspiracy kooks is they just can't except that most things in life are mundane. The fact is it doesn't take a major plan to kill some one. Just a lot of luck and that's what happened. A lone kook got lucky and that is all. Most evil types when they are interrogated aren't some Hannibal Lecther . They are for the most part normal looking. The evil is in the heart, not written on the face like a movie character.
15 posted on 09/13/2008 9:07:30 PM PDT by JimC214
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To: word_warrior_bob

That is so wrong on so many level I LMAO.


16 posted on 09/13/2008 9:10:57 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (OBAMA: He was a flop before he became a flipper.)
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To: JimC214

Yes, it disheartens me when I see so many freepers who buy into the conspiracy. This is the BIGGEST left-wing lie of THEM ALL!


17 posted on 09/13/2008 9:12:37 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature

Sometimes google ISN’T your friend.


18 posted on 09/13/2008 9:14:09 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: word_warrior_bob

neither is google images. /h


19 posted on 09/13/2008 9:17:05 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (OBAMA: He was a flop before he became a flipper.)
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To: Doug TX

Not sexy, not interesting, not real-world.


20 posted on 09/13/2008 9:19:49 PM PDT by SmithL (Drill Dammit!)
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To: killjoy

Depends on how you look at it, Those people might have wondered how an American president was murdered in broad daylight.

There are some Perry Mason’s left in some of us, we only trust our own instincts!

***Do these people have anything better to do with their time? I guess not.***


21 posted on 09/13/2008 9:20:41 PM PDT by msnpatriot
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To: word_warrior_bob
Jim Garrisons original book is a good start to learn about the Kennedy Assassination, including laters ones vindicating his early research and case on it.

In my case I'm a conservative who bought into certain conspiracy, and long before I was a freeper.

***Yes, it disheartens me when I see so many freepers who buy into the conspiracy. This is the BIGGEST left-wing lie of THEM ALL!***

22 posted on 09/13/2008 9:27:36 PM PDT by msnpatriot
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To: Doug TX
Thanks for the post.
23 posted on 09/13/2008 9:38:44 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Doug TX

Read it. Learn it. Live it.

24 posted on 09/13/2008 9:41:39 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: msnpatriot

Start Over. Jim Garrison is a loon. Conspiracy books vindicating each other does not a conspiracy make.

Get back to me after you read “Case Closed”.

I’ve read plenty of conspiracy books, I like cloak and dagger stuff, as I mentioned earlier in the thread I LOVE “JFK” by Oliver Stone. I watch all the assasination TV shows too, great FUN.

Did you see the ABC documentary with Peter Jennings of all people that debunked the conspiracy? Recommended.


25 posted on 09/13/2008 9:52:25 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: Doug TX

26 posted on 09/13/2008 9:55:18 PM PDT by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (Sarah Palin "The Iron Lady from the North")
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To: dfwgator

I long for the day that Kennedy conspiracy theorists are looked at like the 9/11 Truthers.

The “Conspiracy” is the biggest crock of S-— in the history of the universe. At least there remains the possibility of finding life on other planets. There is no chance at finding the “conspirators” regarding JFK.

We got the perp - He’s a little worthless commie/marxists maggot named Oswald. Think DU with Marine Corps. rifle training.


27 posted on 09/13/2008 9:58:34 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: Doug TX
I have two of these cartridges. The shellcase is constructed of brass and has the headstamp WCC 6.5mm

The bullet is a round nose, full metal jacket type with a lead alloy core and gilding metal jacket. They are quite unlike the Italian version of the round which had an aluminum core in the bullet nose. The Italian bullet jackets usually were nickel-plated.

Subject ammunition was made by Western Cartridge Company (which owned Winchester) circa 1953. The ammunition was made on a U.S. military contract DA-23-196-ORD-27.

Soon after Italy received the ammunition, they decided to adopt the NATO 7.62x51mm cartridge and sold the surplus ammunition to Kliens Sporting Goods in Chicago. That is where Lee Harvey Oswald purchased his rifle and ammunition. There is no physical means available to distinguish these rounds with the ones that Oswald used. They could have come from the same box.

28 posted on 09/13/2008 10:01:51 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: msnpatriot
Those people might have wondered how an American president was murdered in broad daylight.

I'd be more dubious if Oswald had pulled the shots off at night.

29 posted on 09/13/2008 10:08:03 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: word_warrior_bob

This crime was not solved, it was CLOSED.


30 posted on 09/13/2008 10:25:10 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: JimC214

Just because someone does not swallow everything the government feeds to them, does not make them a kook. You sound like a cop.


31 posted on 09/13/2008 10:27:17 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: freeplancer

Go read “CASE CLOSED” and THEN tell me you think it wasn’t Oswald.


32 posted on 09/13/2008 10:27:22 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: word_warrior_bob

Let me get this straight, this is a liberal conspiracy but you recommend that a documentary made by ABC and Peter Jennings proves it is not true?!?!? I think you are wrong, the libs are the only ones that have an interest in perptuating a cover up because their beloved pres was killed. They don’t want to beleive that a stupid redneck did it all by himself. You sure are fast with your opinions.


33 posted on 09/13/2008 10:33:50 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: freeplancer

The ABC show was excellent, it was centered around a previously done study done by a company that re-creates accidents, etc. using computer models.

READ CASE CLOSED, THEN, get back to me. Until then, you’re peeing into the wind. Reading is your friend.


34 posted on 09/13/2008 10:55:59 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: Doug TX
Re: "professor of statistics at Texas A&M University"

The Fighting Farmers make an appearance! Excellent.

TAMU Class of '88; Law Hall (may it R.I.P.) Ramp 9 Mule; f.u.p.! ... BTHO "the u."

35 posted on 09/13/2008 10:59:41 PM PDT by Trajan88 (www.bullittclub.com)
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To: Donald Rumsfeld Fan

Thank you! I was waiting for that guy!


36 posted on 09/13/2008 11:01:22 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: freeplancer

Nor does it make them not kooks. Vast conspiracies known only to the unappreciated few make good stories or movies but real life seems more mundane and simple.
A single shooter is more likely than several because as Ben Franklin is quoted, “Two may keep a secret if one of them is dead”.
Oswald didn’t need any help. It only took one man to shoot, it only required a single place to shoot from, it only required a minimum of preparation ahead of time.
I.E., simple plans have the best chance of success and no vast conspiracy is needed, in fact conspiracies often fail because too many people are involved not too few.
Kooks find that not just hard to believe but impossible to believe since it would mean they don’t have superior knowledge and insight unlike the rest of us.
The kooks latch on to the unexplained and unexplainable 1% to discount the clear and reasonable 99%. That’s what makes them and their followers “kooks”.
The truth is usually simple, it’s the lies that are complicated.

5


37 posted on 09/13/2008 11:48:45 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Ben Franklin never heard of “deepthroat” and I am sure there are exceptions to every law of conspiracy or anti-conspiracy. Dismissing people as simpletons or kooks is pretty dangerous territory in my opinion. The majority is not always the best reference. Very interesting subject though, and I consider you a thinker and a reasonologist. I don’t always agree with you, but you are interesting.


38 posted on 09/14/2008 12:54:33 AM PDT by freeplancer
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To: word_warrior_bob
So I am a non-reader, a rube, a dummy because I don't agree with your point of view? It's funny that you did not reference any BOOKS while you were alluding to your intellectual superiority. You mentioned “Peter Jennings” and “ABC”, and I am pretty sure that those are not titles of any high fallutin'books.
39 posted on 09/14/2008 1:01:36 AM PDT by freeplancer
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To: freeplancer
Ben may have felt he had his “deep throat” in his illegitimate son William. Here Ben had accepted the boy and raised him yet William was viewed by Ben as a viper in his own bosom when William had his own loyalties to England.
I don't dismiss conspiracy buffs as simpletons, in fact I've found most to be above average in intelligence. Often it seems to be a case of they're being contemptuous of the majority who are gullible and unable to see below the surface of the days events.
Conspiracies are engaged in but due to the character of the people involved and the nature of conspiracies, that they remain hidden, they usually fail.
Look at how well the petty conspiracies of the Nixon Whitehouse worked out as an example.
Oft times too conspiracy theorists confuse secrecy with conspiracy. The government won't show its latest research on aircraft design but I'm fairly sure the reason is not that alien technology is being incorporated and a grand conspiracy in area 51 is taking place.
Conspiracies require the keeping of secrets, the bigger the conspiracy the more difficult the keeping to the point of Franklin's words.
In the case of assassinations a single person is far more dangerous than an army of conspirators.
40 posted on 09/14/2008 3:49:10 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Good points. Well taken.


41 posted on 09/14/2008 4:03:48 AM PDT by freeplancer
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To: count-your-change

Excellent points.


42 posted on 09/14/2008 6:40:03 AM PDT by JimC214
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To: msnpatriot
Those people might have wondered how an American president was murdered in broad daylight.

Marine with a rifle?

43 posted on 09/14/2008 7:47:47 AM PDT by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature
If you make a claim like that you're going to have to cite your source and post a link.

I won't even go there.

44 posted on 09/14/2008 7:50:28 AM PDT by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: freeplancer

Stop insulting yourself. Peter Jennings didn’t MAKE the ABC special, he read a teleprompter for a living, remember? You can google and find the TV show in question.

I have mentioned the name of the book “Case Closed” by Gerald Posner many times already. You just came on to the thread to spit fire and I keep telling you to read the book “Case Closed” and you keep spitting fire, looking for a fight.


45 posted on 09/14/2008 9:19:07 AM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: word_warrior_bob
Not this crap again. This crime is SOLVED. Oswald is as Guilty as O.J. for anyone who takes the time to READ, and not just the kook crap.

Yea, but there's no excitement or intrigue in that for the myriad of conspiracy kooks out there who have nothing better to do than invent assassins behind every nook, cranny, sewer grate and grassy knoll.
46 posted on 09/14/2008 9:25:53 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic ("And how can this be? For I am the Kwisatz Haderach! " - Barack Obama)
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To: word_warrior_bob
Of the many conspiracy books you've read, and with consideration to your ‘open’ mind, what is your reaction to the book ‘Case Open’?, written in response to ‘Case Closed’? Which is full of disinformation.

The Jennings documentary was in response to the 3 new History Channel installments of ‘The Men Who Killed Kennedy’, which basically solved the case, and documented the conspiracy. Those segments are now banned, including DVD sales. Sounds alot like the ‘Path To 9/11’, doesn't it?

Garrison had impeccable credentials and actually believed the govt line the first few years after the assassination. It was after insiders and witnesses told him what was going on he initiated the Shaw case. He was later proved right about Shaw, and the connections to the assassination. He went after LBJ for sealing the records, etc. IMO an American hero.

In a time when the 20 conspirators have been published from 'intel' records (search book Regicide) on Amazon, I find it hard to take your post seriously.

47 posted on 09/14/2008 8:07:31 PM PDT by msnpatriot
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To: msnpatriot

Fine, I shall continue to live in reality.


48 posted on 09/14/2008 8:18:38 PM PDT by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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