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Ancient iceman probably has no modern relatives
Yahoo News ^ | October, 30, 2008 | Reporting by Michael Kahn

Posted on 10/30/2008 2:49:25 PM PDT by MissCalico

Ancient iceman probably has no modern relatives

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Thu Oct 30, 2:21 pm ET

Reuters – An undated handout file photo shows "Otzi", Italy's prehistoric iceman. "Otzi", …

LONDON (Reuters) – "Otzi," Italy's prehistoric iceman, probably does not have any modern day descendants, according to a study published Thursday.

A team of Italian and British scientists who sequenced his mitochondrial DNA -- which is passed down through the mother's line -- found that Otzi belonged to a genetic lineage that is either extremely rare or has died out.

Otzi's 5,300-year-old corpse was found frozen in the Tyrolean Alps in 1991.

"Our research suggests that Otzi's lineage may indeed have become extinct," Martin Richards of Leeds University in Britain, who worked on the study, said in a statement.

"We'll only know for sure by sampling intensively in the Alpine Valleys where Otzi was born."

The findings published in the journal Current Biology reverses previous research from 1994 on a small section of Otzi's DNA that suggested the so-called "Iceman" had relatives living in Europe. But Richards and colleagues said their analysis confirmed that Otzi belonged to a previously unidentified lineage that has not been seen to date in modern European populations.

Scientists were thrilled to find Otzi's mummified body had remained frozen, and so almost perfectly preserved, for more than 5,000 years. An arrowhead was found in his left shoulder, suggesting Otzi did not simply freeze to death while climbing the high mountains. Evidence shows he was likely a hunte . . .


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: ancientautopsies; dna; emptydna; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; iceman; mtdna; mummy; oetzi; otzi; superseded; theiceman
"We'll only know for sure by sampling intensively in the Alpine Valleys where Otzi was born."

Well let's hurry up already . . . it's only been 17 years.

1 posted on 10/30/2008 2:49:26 PM PDT by MissCalico
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To: MissCalico
"We'll only know for sure by sampling intensively in the Alpine Valleys where Otzi was born."

Which is still more than we know about Obie.

2 posted on 10/30/2008 2:51:35 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter ( Sarah Palin is America's Margaret Thatcher; Obama is America's George Galloway.)
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To: MissCalico

“Grant Money”...The gift that keeps giving!!


3 posted on 10/30/2008 2:54:12 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (I'm planting corn...Have to feed my car...)
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To: MissCalico

Just an hunch, but I’m thinking that being stupid enough to wander off into the Alps with little clothing would be a negative factor in leaving offspring.


4 posted on 10/30/2008 2:57:11 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan (A Jew voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.)
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To: MissCalico

You mean the great George Gervin didn't have any kids?

5 posted on 10/30/2008 2:58:21 PM PDT by dfwgator (I hate Illinois Marxists)
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To: MeanWestTexan

>Just an hunch, but I’m thinking that being stupid enough to wander off into the Alps with little clothing would be a negative factor in leaving offspring.

True. But he could have been waylaid as he was traveling, as the article says they did find an arrowhead in his shoulder.


6 posted on 10/30/2008 3:02:21 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Sacajaweau
“Grant Money”...The gift that keeps giving!!

Well, at least it isn't money from U$A taxpayers. ;)

7 posted on 10/30/2008 3:07:12 PM PDT by MissCalico
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To: MissCalico
""Otzi," Italy's prehistoric iceman, probably does not have any modern day descendants"


8 posted on 10/30/2008 3:09:27 PM PDT by JoeProBono
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To: MissCalico
If only he had made it to the party that night...who knows what might have happened?


9 posted on 10/30/2008 3:21:08 PM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Since he was in his 40's It's likely he procreated before he died. He also probably had siblings and cousins and even possibly parents, aunts, uncles and maybe even grandchildren and grandparents, some of who shared his Maternal DNA. That one line of DNA either died out sometime over the last several thousand years or there are surviving isolated pockets somewhere.

I don't know why they haven't already checked the DNA of the local surrounding valleys. It would be so interesting to me if they found one of his descendants.

10 posted on 10/30/2008 3:21:30 PM PDT by MissCalico
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To: MissCalico

He’s dead Jim!


11 posted on 10/30/2008 3:24:26 PM PDT by tophat9000 ( We...... Obama's Thugocracys to Noteare all "joe the"... plumber)
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To: MissCalico
Ancient iceman probably has no modern relatives

Maybe they just didn't want a 5,300 year old corpse showing up for the holidays and drinking all their liquor.

12 posted on 10/30/2008 3:32:27 PM PDT by x
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To: MissCalico

Men don’t pass on their mitochondrial DNA, so the rarity or otherwise of the iceman’s mitochondrial DNA has no bearing on the question of his possible descendants.

The “line” that is averred to be extinct includes his mother’s mother’s mother’s ... mother’s mother ) whoever is considered to be the “head of the line”, ) her daughters, daughters’ daughters , daughters’ daughters’ daughters, and so on to the present, and only the living sons of any of these “nth daughters.”


13 posted on 10/30/2008 3:34:03 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: MissCalico

14 posted on 10/30/2008 3:36:19 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Everytime they open their mouth they shoot themselves in the foot.)
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To: Revolting cat!

Jerry Butler is a great singer and an incredibly nice man.


15 posted on 10/30/2008 3:39:03 PM PDT by Chunga (Vote Republican)
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To: Chunga

I used to work, way back, for a non-profit that he was on the board of. Whenever he’d call, I’d put him on hold, then tell my boss, “Iceman on line 4.”


16 posted on 10/30/2008 3:43:57 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: dr_lew
Darn...I knew that but didn't think it through B4 I posted about his kids.

In those days, in those isolated, sparsely populated areas, his kids might have shared his maternal DNA anyway. (which is all beside the point)

17 posted on 10/30/2008 3:52:09 PM PDT by MissCalico
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To: MissCalico

Have they checked Miami?


18 posted on 10/30/2008 4:03:51 PM PDT by WHBates
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To: MissCalico
Ancient DNA

Ice Man - Otzi of Italy

Widely known as "Otzi (Oetzi)" the Iceman found in 1991 in the Italian Alps, is also known as "Similaun Man". Of the Neolithic era, Otzi lived between 3350-3300 B.C. in the "Copper Age". He was believed to be 46-years old when he died at the top of a mountain pass from wounds received.

Name - Iceman

Haplo - K

Haplotype - 16224C, 16311C

19 posted on 10/30/2008 4:17:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Presidential DNA

Thomas Jefferson has/had haplogroup K, same as the Iceman.

20 posted on 10/30/2008 4:21:06 PM PDT by blam
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To: MissCalico
...probably has no modern relatives

Otzi was gay?

Might explain why somebody was shootin' arrows at him.

21 posted on 10/30/2008 4:26:27 PM PDT by uglybiker (1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d 2 g3t l41d)
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To: MissCalico
"In those days, in those isolated, sparsely populated areas, his kids might have shared his maternal DNA anyway.

Only the females.

Last year I had the DNA of my extended family analysed. Mainly we're, R1b's, H's, U5a's which are the most common haplogroups in Europe. My mother's haplogroup 'V' was a suprise...52% of the Skolt Sa'ami (northern Finland reindeer herders) have haplogroup 'V'.

My dad's mother (Mrs Smith) was/is related to 9,000 year old Cheddar Man.

22 posted on 10/30/2008 4:33:34 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Only the females

I guess it's possible a son of his could have had his maternal DNA if he bred with a maternal cousin.

My dad's mother (Mrs Smith) was/is related to 9,000 year old Cheddar Man.

Cheddar Man is so COOL! Can you imagine living in the same place where some of your relatives have been for 9,000 years? In a world of constant upheaval and migration caused by wars, invasions and modern travel? In Britain alone they had the Romans, Angles, Saxons, Picts, Scots, Franks, Vikings, Normans and various other Germanic types (have I forgotten some?)

It seems so unlikely to find a genetic line of hardy inhabitants surviving right there where they've always been. Really puts a *face* on pre-historic history.

23 posted on 10/30/2008 5:22:16 PM PDT by MissCalico
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To: Siberian-psycho

PING - being siberian I figure this is right down your alley


24 posted on 10/30/2008 6:11:22 PM PDT by swampdweller
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To: MissCalico
"It seems so unlikely to find a genetic line of hardy inhabitants surviving right there where they've always been. Really puts a *face* on pre-historic history."

This is an amazing story.

And my ex-wife complained that I never wanted to go anywhere.
Mr Targett hasn't ventured more that a mile from his 9,000 year old family homestead.

Professor Stephen Oppenheimer in his book Origins Of The British has found that the DNA of the UK is very old and little changed since the end of the Ice Age.

My yDNA is R1b (DYS390-23) which indicates my male ancestors were Danes who went to Ireland and stayed...maybe as a Viking?

25 posted on 10/30/2008 8:45:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
And my ex-wife complained that I never wanted to go anywhere. Mr Targett hasn't ventured more that a mile from his 9,000 year old family homestead.

Lol . . . I can almost imagine all your thousands of great-Grannies over the millennia yelling at their hubbies that they never take them out of Cheddar. Stonehenge should have been a short trip and it did have wooden post structures at about that time.

26 posted on 10/31/2008 11:26:28 AM PDT by MissCalico
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Genome-Wide Analysis of Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms
Uncovers Population Structure in No. Europe
PLoS ONE | October 24, 2008
Salmela E, Lappalainen T, Fransson I, Andersen PM, Dahlman-Wright K, et al.
Posted on 10/30/2008 2:00:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2120039/posts


27 posted on 10/31/2008 3:50:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, October 11, 2008 !!!)
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28 posted on 10/31/2008 3:53:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, October 11, 2008 !!!)
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To: Palter
This diagram works for most people, but not for folks with Down's Syndrome and a few other conditions. F is for father, M for mother; each of us has up to 64 great-great-great-great-grandcestors; no more than 46 of them has had even one chromosome pair reach you; even with the occasional crossing stream, there's no more than 46, and with crossing streams, could be less.

For those who don't know, this doesn't mean the other 18 (and all of their ancestors, plus half of the ancestors of the 46) are not your ancestors -- DUH! IOW, just because the chromosomes don't make it through, doesn't mean that Oetzi (for example) has no living descendants.
F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M
F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M
F M F M F M F M F M F M F M F M
F M F M F M F M
F M F M
F M
YOU

29 posted on 07/09/2010 10:27:38 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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