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Buying Gold, Silver etc.
Vanity | 11-7--08 | Legend Has It

Posted on 11/07/2008 5:48:00 PM PST by LegendHasIt

SO, after losing a third of its value in the last year and several tens of thousands in the last month, I'm going to get out of my money market account before 0bama and his minions steal and tax the rest of it away.

Thinking of puting about half of it into real estate, and maybe putting the other half into precious metal bullion/coins.

I notice that there is some delay in order fulfillment throughout the market, but was hoping that some of you guys knew which brokers were best, in terms of prompt delivery, honesty and price.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: gold; platinum; silver
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks
1 posted on 11/07/2008 5:48:01 PM PST by LegendHasIt
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To: LegendHasIt

Steer clear of monex.


2 posted on 11/07/2008 5:50:12 PM PST by allmost
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To: LegendHasIt

PM coming your way.


3 posted on 11/07/2008 5:50:40 PM PST by Republican Extremist
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To: allmost

Thanks. How about those companies that Rush and Liddy tout?

I’d consider Kitco, but they are only offering 400 ounce bars in gold and 1000 ounce Silver.

I wouldn’t mind a few ten OZ gold bars and 100 oz silvers, but mostly I’d want stuff I can swap for ‘bread , gas and bullets’ if the stuff really hits the fan.


4 posted on 11/07/2008 5:55:01 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: Republican Extremist

buy gold backed securities


5 posted on 11/07/2008 5:57:41 PM PST by 4rcane
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To: LegendHasIt

Can you still buy Canadian maple leafs on the open market?


6 posted on 11/07/2008 5:57:42 PM PST by Argus (Stuff Compassionate and Maverick - just try plain old CONSERVATISM again)
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To: 4rcane

You replied to someone else, but if you meant it for me; No, I want stuff I can roll around in ;-)


7 posted on 11/07/2008 5:59:28 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: Argus

Yes, you can...

But for a change, the American stuff is cheaper... at least according to the places I have looked at in the last hour or so.


8 posted on 11/07/2008 6:00:56 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: LegendHasIt

I can only advise that you ensure that you have direct and easy access to any bullion you buy, If you can’t say hello to your bullion every morning - that means it can be confiscated prior to your knowledge. Ther’es lots of reasons not to keep it in your house, but I’d question and distrust any peice of paper, claiming ownership of a peice of commodity, that can be nullified with a single loony left action. That is how distrustfull I am of the comming administration.


9 posted on 11/07/2008 6:02:03 PM PST by ChetNavVet (Build It, and they won't come!)
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To: LegendHasIt

It’s a bad time to invest in just about everything. Stay away from energy until everyone’s lights go out under obama, then tread lightly. If you think the dollar will decline short term then go with precious metals. You’ve got to play this obama thing which means gather as much knowledge as you can then cashout, if you’re not quick enough (transaction completed this year) it will be confiscated by the government and called taxes.


10 posted on 11/07/2008 6:04:47 PM PST by allmost
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To: LegendHasIt
;~)


11 posted on 11/07/2008 6:04:59 PM PST by TADSLOS (McCain Courted Socialism and Brought Us Marxism Instead)
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To: ChetNavVet

Yep, That has pretty much been my philosophy for years, and now given the political situation, it is imperative.

I’ll have a very secure place to put it, I’m not worried about that. And no more needs to be said about that. ;-)


12 posted on 11/07/2008 6:05:47 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: LegendHasIt
I'll probably be flamed by the gold bugs, but as a person who has to buy precious and base metals for my business (Whether I want to or not), buying during a period of high prices realy does not seem that attractive.

And buying paper that says you own gold is....Paper.

By the time we have seen the gold "investment" ads on the majors networks, it is far too late for outsiders. They are just looking for the last tier of the pyramid to buy high.

There are a lot of real industrial demands for precious metals in applications where there are no reasonable substitutes. But other then the demand for "Safe Havens", when a recession worsens, people buy fewer cars-And that means less demand for platinum and palladium. They buy fewer electronics and jewelry-And that means less demand for gold and silver.

If the metals are being bought for a Doomsday scenario with thoughts of bartering for food, one's money would go further buying and stocking rad-sterilized food in the first place. And ammunition.

Suppose you bought an ounce of gold at today's price of $737.10. Will it be worth $1,000 when you liquidate it? There is at least as good a chance it will be back to 400. Look at the last year's changes in base metals for an example of volatility.

13 posted on 11/07/2008 6:06:23 PM PST by Gorzaloon (Roark, Architect.)
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To: LegendHasIt
I am also interested in transferring some of my saving into metals (gold and silver).

This would be a hedge against severe or hyperinflation (Dollar keeps dropping). My assumption is also that citizens will be “asked” to turn over their coins and bullion as in the 1930s.

My idea is to by gold and silver medallions that are “minted” as collector's items or keepsakes. There are companies that make coin-like items. The Alaska Mint is one. They have a medallion for McCain-Palin.

14 posted on 11/07/2008 6:08:58 PM PST by Aglooka (Posting from New Hampshachusetts (Formerly New Hampshire))
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To: allmost

Yeah..

Although I’m thinking of putting a few thousand into solar panels and wind generators...

But I’m going to hold off on that for a while. There may be some better tax incentives on them and I’ll have the money set aside and poised to get my order in just before the rush starts.


15 posted on 11/07/2008 6:09:24 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: TADSLOS

EXACTLY! ;-)


16 posted on 11/07/2008 6:09:46 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: Argus
I bought some 24k Maple Leaf $50 coins today. They were the only bullion coins available except for some Golden Eagles. The dealer explained that there's been a big demand for bullion lately.
17 posted on 11/07/2008 6:14:18 PM PST by Prolixus (Summum ius summa inuria.)
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To: Gorzaloon

Thanks, I understand that. I used to be a jewelry manufacturer in a previous life, so I know a little about that.

I don’t care if I lose money (although I don’t think I will, given the way the world is going)... I just want something that will be there when I need it.

A year ago I told my money market manager (who has done well for me for the previous 12 years, until recently) to put everything in the most secure places he could find, and I still lost my @$$. If I had put it in gold when I first started to worry about it, when gold was at its second highest recent peak, and sold it today, when it is relatively low, I’d be no worse off than I already am.

And if worse comes to worse as far as bullion prices go, I can start making jewelery again.


18 posted on 11/07/2008 6:18:20 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: Prolixus

Yes, I’ve noticed that. I hate entering a market when things are like they are now, but I don’t think things will get significantly better in the foreseeable future. If I had not procrastinated for a whole dang year, I’d be sittin’ pretty now.


19 posted on 11/07/2008 6:22:45 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: LegendHasIt
You definitely want to buy the physical metal, not paper surrogates. There is a retail shortage that has hamstrung conventional sales by the treasury etc. This is not a total shortage but a market distortion caused by speculators. Try coin shows where it's cash on the barrelhead, and make gradual purchases to increase your stash. Forget about ETF's they do not have the metal to back up their shares, in violation of SEC regulations (except CEF, I believe, the Canadian metals fund). And do not expect to make a windfall overnight. Precious metals do not follow obvious free market expectations because the actual total market cap is small and can be effectively manipulated by a few large commercial speculators. But, if you go the private purchase route and buy real metal to have and hold, at least you will be invisible to the gubbermint. And that makes it the safest move available.
20 posted on 11/07/2008 6:30:19 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Gorzaloon
If the metals are being bought for a Doomsday scenario with thoughts of bartering for food, one's money would go further buying and stocking rad-sterilized food in the first place. And ammunition.

Suppose you bought an ounce of gold at today's price of $737.10. Will it be worth $1,000 when you liquidate it? There is at least as good a chance it will be back to 400. Look at the last year's changes in base metals for an example of volatility.

But if there is a Dooomsday scenario then the US$ will become worthless and will not appreciate relative to gold.

And while you are right that gold is losing value now in a deflation in US$ terms, try pricing gold in Zimbabwean currency right now and tell me that one would have been better off not buying gold.

All fiat currencies eventually go to zero. As you point out, it is the timing that is tough to figure out

I definitely want some of that food...got any good sources?

jas3
21 posted on 11/07/2008 6:39:58 PM PST by jas3
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To: 4rcane
buy gold backed securities

Most people are using the Exchange Traded Fund "GLD" for that purpose. The miners have all gotten crushed.

The advantages to an ETF are rapid liquidity (trades like a stock) so you can hedge a portfolio or play price fluctuations without wating for a big chunk of metal to come via Fedex. You can also put stop-loss orders underneath an ETF, so if it reverses you will get out. ETFs also can be used for covered call writing to produce an income stream.

Anybody who wants more info, PM me. As I am regulated by the SEC, I will not give buy/sell advice over the net, but I will explain strategies that can be employed in general terms.

If you want to know what to do for your own situation, we will have to talk on the phone.

22 posted on 11/07/2008 6:40:00 PM PST by Republican Extremist
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To: Argus
Can you still buy Canadian maple leafs on the open market?

Yes, in the following increments...

Canadian Gold Maple Leaf 1 oz., ½ oz., ¼ oz., 1/10 oz.

23 posted on 11/07/2008 6:42:13 PM PST by Republican Extremist
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To: hinckley buzzard

Hinkley has it correct. I deal in metals. I do read what gold is doing. Buy the physical, not paper. Huge difference.


24 posted on 11/07/2008 6:44:04 PM PST by Shyla
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To: ChetNavVet

There is nothing like rolling around in it. ;)

25 posted on 11/07/2008 6:46:09 PM PST by Republican Extremist
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To: LegendHasIt

You should do some research on deflation, which we are in now. And then hyperinflation which we will soon be in. Some investors think Gold and precious medals would do well and some do not. I for one, feel storing real commodities, food, water, supplies needed for the production of food may one day be necessary. The owning of Real food products protect you against hyperinflation. Maybe not an easy task or even realistic, especially trying to store. But these do maintain real value in a depression. Lets face it, Gold does not feed someone in a real depression. Most of us would be without jobs to provide for our families. I for one do not think we are going through a normal business cycle. Especially, if Obama really follows through on his tax plans against business. Small business makes up about 85% of our employment. His tax plan will stop the financial engine, maybe for a long time. You can’t tax and spend your way out of a bad economy! Not to mention pay off your debt that way. Our bonds that we sell to other countries to keep us afloat are soon going to be worth negative growth, who wants to purchase that. They can print all the money they want, but its just paper and it won’t make it more valuable. And it will not get us out of the DEBT!!!


26 posted on 11/07/2008 6:48:53 PM PST by jmj3jude
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To: hinckley buzzard

Thanks.
Pretty much what I intended anyway, but you supplied some details I wasn’t aware of.

I’m going to need a precious metals broker. That’s why I started this thread; Just to see who other people have dealt with, rather than just general investment advice... Got the what and how covered, I mostly just need to know the who ;-).

Thanks again.


27 posted on 11/07/2008 6:48:54 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: jmj3jude

Thanks, but I don’t really need to do any research. I know what I want, and it is only peripherally related to the general economy projections and political machinations. I’d be doing the same thing if McCain had won... Maybe just a little less urgency.

I’m really looking for a Who, rather than a what and a why.

Although I’d be glad to participate in a discussion of that sort if someone wants to start another thread.


28 posted on 11/07/2008 6:57:17 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: hinckley buzzard
You definitely want to buy the physical metal, not paper surrogates. There is a retail shortage that has hamstrung conventional sales by the treasury etc. This is not a total shortage but a market distortion caused by speculators. Try coin shows where it's cash on the barrelhead, and make gradual purchases to increase your stash. Forget about ETF's they do not have the metal to back up their shares, in violation of SEC regulations (except CEF, I believe, the Canadian metals fund). And do not expect to make a windfall overnight. Precious metals do not follow obvious free market expectations because the actual total market cap is small and can be effectively manipulated by a few large commercial speculators. But, if you go the private purchase route and buy real metal to have and hold, at least you will be invisible to the gubbermint. And that makes it the safest move available.

That depends on what you want to do.

ETFs are great for speculating on price movements in metals and other commodities, but you are right about cashing them in for real stuff that will hurt your foot if dropped.

Bullion is great as a hedge against total economic collapse, but getting in and out rapidly is a problem.

Different tools for different problems.

When it all boils down to it, copper jacketed lead could be more valuable than gold.

29 posted on 11/07/2008 7:00:52 PM PST by Republican Extremist
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To: Republican Extremist
When it all boils down to it, copper jacketed lead could be more valuable than gold.

And I have had THAT particular situation covered for decades.

Folks, This (as you know, R. Extremist) isn't about survivalism, investment strategy etc. I'm just tired of my paper assets going down the drain, in ways that not even my broker has control over, much less myself having any control and I'm too lazy to want to do my own paper investing.

30 posted on 11/07/2008 7:16:12 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: Gorzaloon
Suppose you bought an ounce of gold at today's price of $737.10. Will it be worth $1,000 when you liquidate it? There is at least as good a chance it will be back to 400. Look at the last year's changes in base metals for an example of volatility.

What do you think of platinum?

31 posted on 11/07/2008 7:20:43 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: LegendHasIt

They are coming..... for your wallet.

32 posted on 11/07/2008 7:46:58 PM PST by Republican Extremist
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To: Republican Extremist

It doesn't just apply to swords and spears. ;-)

33 posted on 11/07/2008 7:54:50 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: LegendHasIt

Come and take them....

34 posted on 11/07/2008 8:06:59 PM PST by Republican Extremist
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To: tacticalogic
What do you think of platinum?

I expect it to go down directly proportional to car sales. Catalytic converters use the most of it.(And they are being recycled more and more by junkies.). It is used in industrial and polymer catalysts, too. But if general sales and manufacturing continue to drop, people will also be buying less silicone rubber, etc.

The other platinum group metas have been dropping as well. Palladium had a big investment rush when "Cold Fusion" hit the papers years ago and was artificially inflated for a while. Ruthenium has dropped.

If one wants to "salvage something from the wreckage" and just survive, buying it as a currency might be acceptable to some, but the buying should really have happened a couple of years ago. It was supposed to be "Buy low, Sell high", and the people who have been selling the last few months are the ones who made the gains-The gains that pay for network TV ads.

35 posted on 11/08/2008 3:15:01 AM PST by Gorzaloon (Roark, Architect.)
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To: jas3
And while you are right that gold is losing value now in a deflation in US$ terms, try pricing gold in Zimbabwean currency right now and tell me that one would have been better off not buying gold.

Oh, with that currency, goats and chickens, maize, sugar, ANYTHING would have been a good buy. We could have gotten rich on pocket lint, with a million percent inflation.

All fiat currencies eventually go to zero. As you point out, it is the timing that is tough to figure out

That's why I am sitting here, and not in the Cayman Islands, counting my money. I did NOT sell gold when it hit 800 once years ago, holding out for 1000. Then it went to 400. Then I sold it when I should not have. So take anything I say with a grain of salt because obviously I am an @sshole!!(Realizing that if I had made a correct guess about peaks and bottoms, of course, I would have been a revered "Expert!)

I definitely want some of that food...got any good sources?

All the places selling MRE-Type military or survivalist stuff are backordered and way overpriced. But in the supermarket are those room-temperature stored microwaveable meals at much lower prices. Even Taco Bell puts them out, if you are into gastronomical self-abuse. (Just joking..actually they are not bad.)

The manufacturers would rather die than put scary words like "Radiation" on their packages..but of course they are.

36 posted on 11/08/2008 3:29:11 AM PST by Gorzaloon (Roark, Architect.)
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To: LegendHasIt
And if worse comes to worse as far as bullion prices go, I can start making jewelery again.

Food for thought: In the Carter Depression I did well.

Everyone who was laid off suddenly became a "Silversmith" of varying degrees of expertise. Flea markets and crafts fairs became a whole underground cash economy. Usually, when the unemployment benefits ran out, the less skilled ones were shaken out and went back to manstream jobs.

37 posted on 11/08/2008 3:33:15 AM PST by Gorzaloon (Roark, Architect.)
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To: hinckley buzzard
But, if you go the private purchase route and buy real metal to have and hold, at least you will be invisible to the gubbermint. And that makes it the safest move available.

Fly under the radar and buy casting grain, 14 or 18K. If worse comes to worse, you can weigh out small amounts and use it for currency to buy food, the way miners and gold panners payed for their whiskey. Why pay the value-added for minted coins and have the paper trail?

38 posted on 11/08/2008 3:40:38 AM PST by Gorzaloon (Roark, Architect.)
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To: LegendHasIt

Any of you gold folks aware of this?

Venezuela offers Russians big gold projects

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business/americas/2008/11/08/182231/Venezuela-offers.htm


39 posted on 11/08/2008 4:06:11 AM PST by EBH (The Day the Music Died)
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To: EBH

Yes, I saw that. Or something similar from another source.

Lot of gold in Venezuela. Don’t know how good this particular area is.

Years ago I had a friend down there that ran a dredge along one of the rivers. He actually got gold and diamonds at the same time. I thought that was pretty cool.


40 posted on 11/08/2008 10:45:50 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: LegendHasIt

bump


41 posted on 11/09/2008 12:06:02 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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To: LegendHasIt

www.tulving.com


42 posted on 11/09/2008 3:54:32 PM PST by sandmanbr
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To: sandmanbr

50% above Spot for American Eagle Silver 1oz coins?
Nearly 10% above spot for 1oz golds?

No thanks.

But thank you for taking the time to reply.


43 posted on 11/09/2008 6:11:21 PM PST by LegendHasIt (Vote for Common Sense '08 ......... OOPS! too late.)
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