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God or a multiverse?
Guardian ^ | December 8 2008 | Mark Vernon

Posted on 12/08/2008 11:56:24 AM PST by Soliton

Is there a God or a multiverse? Does modern cosmology force us to choose? Is it the case that the apparent fine-tuning of constants and forces to make the universe just right for life means there is either a need for a "tuner" or else a cosmos in which every possible variation of these constants and forces exists somewhere?

This choice has provoked anxious comment in the pages of this week's New Scientist. It follows an article in Discover magazine, in which science writer Tim Folger quoted cosmologist Bernard Carr: "If you don't want God, you'd better have a multiverse."

Even strongly atheistic physicists seem to believe the choice is unavoidable. Steven Weinberg, the closest physics comes to a Richard Dawkins, told the eminent biologist: "If you discovered a really impressive fine-tuning ... I think you'd really be left with only two explanations: a benevolent designer or a multiverse."

The anxiety in the New Scientist stems in part from the way this apparent choice has been leapt upon by the intelligent design people. Scientists don't like that since it seems to suggest that ID offers a theory that cosmologists are taking seriously. It doesn't of course: ID wasn't science before the multiverse hypothesis gained prominence, just a few years ago; and it hasn't become science since.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: cosmology; id; multiverse
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I vote for multiverse
1 posted on 12/08/2008 11:56:24 AM PST by Soliton
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To: colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; svcw; Enosh; ...

Ping


2 posted on 12/08/2008 11:58:06 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Tagline on vacation during the grand experiment.)
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To: Soliton

OK. That article made my head hurt. I think that there is an intelligent designer.


3 posted on 12/08/2008 12:00:32 PM PST by SoftwareEngineer
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To: Soliton

Is God limited as to his instruments? Mine isn’t...


4 posted on 12/08/2008 12:00:52 PM PST by stefanbatory (Do you want a President or a King?)
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To: SoftwareEngineer
OK. That article made my head hurt. I think that there is an intelligent designer.

Can you describe what characteristics your designer would have?

5 posted on 12/08/2008 12:04:23 PM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: Soliton

>I vote for multiverse

Are the two mutually exclusive? I mean if God says it’s His will that none should perish, who am I to say that He can’t have other Universes where He gets to save those? Likewise, who am I to berate God if THIS is the ONLY universe that exists?


6 posted on 12/08/2008 12:04:54 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: stefanbatory
Is God limited as to his instruments? Mine isn’t...

Define "God"?

7 posted on 12/08/2008 12:05:29 PM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: OneWingedShark
Are the two mutually exclusive?

The article says no

8 posted on 12/08/2008 12:06:21 PM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: Soliton
God, for believers, is the condition without which science cannot even get going; divinity is a final explanation for the laws of science, as a philosopher of religion would say.

So wrong on so many levels.

The possibility that the universe has directionality or purpose, even if self-contained – that is, not making any appeal to an external deity – has been forcefully rejected by most of modern science. But maybe the extraordinary phenomenon that is an evolving universe containing conscious observers is itself forcing science to reconsider.

9 posted on 12/08/2008 12:07:56 PM PST by svcw (Great selection of Christmas gift baskets: http://baskettastic.com/)
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To: Soliton; metmom
Can you describe what characteristics your designer would have?

Whatever they are, they are most certainly more defining than "anything and everything happens all of the time".

10 posted on 12/08/2008 12:09:17 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: Soliton
Is there a God or a multiverse? Does modern cosmology force us to choose?

We probably don't get to choose. We were not even consulted.

11 posted on 12/08/2008 12:09:30 PM PST by RightWhale (We were so young two years ago and the DJIA was 12,000)
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To: Soliton

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline (Proverbs 1:7)


12 posted on 12/08/2008 12:09:53 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: Soliton

i dont see how a choice needs to be made. if you say the universe is unlimited in size or there are an unlimited number of universes (multiverse), then theoretically you could make the argument that every possible combination of everything has to happen - which leads to other earths with you living on them somewhere out there in the cosmos. but i can see someone thinking there is no God and there is a finite universe.


13 posted on 12/08/2008 12:10:24 PM PST by philsfan24
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To: svcw; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
God, for believers, is the condition without which science cannot even get going; divinity is a final explanation for the laws of science, as a philosopher of religion would say. So wrong on so many levels.

Actually, betty boop and alamo_girl have written a book that pretty much contends just that.

14 posted on 12/08/2008 12:10:40 PM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: Soliton

They have a right to be wrong.


15 posted on 12/08/2008 12:11:20 PM PST by svcw (Great selection of Christmas gift baskets: http://baskettastic.com/)
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To: AndrewC
Whatever they are, they are most certainly more defining than "anything and everything happens all of the time".

I sincerely cannot see how someone can believe in something they can't even define

16 posted on 12/08/2008 12:11:59 PM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: RightWhale
We probably don't get to choose. We were not even consulted.

You have snatched the pebble from my hand Grasshopper. Go and teach the uninitiated

17 posted on 12/08/2008 12:14:17 PM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: philsfan24

You just summarized the article.


18 posted on 12/08/2008 12:15:21 PM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: Soliton

LOL
So, you don’t believe in pornography? ;)


19 posted on 12/08/2008 12:15:42 PM PST by brytlea (You can fool enough of the people enough of the time.)
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To: Soliton

Why couldn’t God have created the multiverse?


20 posted on 12/08/2008 12:16:01 PM PST by Terpfen (Ain't over yet, folks. Those 2004 Senate gains are up for grabs in 2 years.)
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