Posted on 12/18/2008 5:03:25 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
This is a discussion of the mandate for separate but equal educational facilities for blacks, newly expanded by the Supreme Court to include state-funded graduate schools. As this is the first article on the subject of civil rights legislation prominent enough to get my attention during my tour of 1938 I would have to say that this was not a front-burner issue of the day.
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Look, I posted both of these articles when they were first written. Why not do a search before you post?!?!
1. Are the test results in yet?
2. The second article “Washingon’s Alleys a Slum Problem” is a timeless title. When will Congress get around to cleaning up that one?
This story illustrate the law of unintended consequences and government. Not that they were bad things, but who would have predicted that the Civil War and the emancipation proclamation would cause thousands of poor blacks to move to Washington DC and live in poverty and that this poverty would become generational?
“This story illustrate the law of unintended consequences and government. Not that they were bad things, but who would have predicted that the Civil War and the emancipation proclamation would cause thousands of poor blacks to move to Washington DC and live in poverty and that this poverty would become generational?”
Having been an avid student of history, it is clear that our entire country was totally unprepared for emancipation. The abolitionists never gained a consensus to answer the question “once we’ve liberated them, what do we do with them?” Blacks were uneducated (by design), had no property and no resources. The generational poverty stemmed from generations of slavery where the slaves were told what to do and everything was provided for them. Not only were they not expected to think for themselves, it was considered undesirable that they do so. People wonder why they didn’t prosper as well as European immigrants at the same time. The difference is that we got the immigrants who had the initiative to get out of their country and come here to improve their lives. Many of them, particularly the Jews, brought with them an independent work ethic and recognition that education was the key to advancement.
For the former slaves, however, generations of servitude left them without a work ethic (a similar result was shown by the Soviet collective farmers; they had no stake in the property so why work hard?). Generations of ignorance left them without an appreciation for education.
Although around the turn of the century the black community began to realize that family, education, and work were necessary to get ahead, the path was first blocked by segregation laws. Then, when the path was no longer blocked, the government instead placed snares to entrap blacks. We called it welfare. We said it was to “help” them. We’ve enslaved them, to lives just as oppressed as they were when they were property, but without any socially or economically productive result.
Beware America; government is setting the same traps for everyone. Education has diminished such that people no longer think independently. People have been conditioned to WANT, and the government now steps in to promise satisfaction for those WANTS. In exchange, you merely have to surrender your freedom of choice and action to the government.
That's a fascinating analysis. I've heard this argument before but only in sound bites and not laid out so clearly. It certainly explains a lot. Do you think, today, it's a deliberate tactic of liberal government to keep black people down because of racism or because it's better for government power?
“Do you think, today, it’s a deliberate tactic of liberal government to keep black people down because of racism or because it’s better for government power?”
The short answer is “yes.” Today it is more about power than racism, but it serves their purposes to promote a different kind of racism.
I think the liberals of the 1930’s were socialists, but they were white socialists and as such still carried all their racist baggage with them. Socialists believe they know “best” for the “people” and that once in power, they can use government to “take care” of the masses. These white socialists also firmly believed blacks were inherently inferior to the white masses and incapable of fending for themselves without someone to do their thinking for them. They were the natural, most likely, and most vulnerable, target population for their policies.
Today, these policies continue because of their own momentum. The government created it’s “iron triangle” of Congressional politicians (from predominantly black districts), government bureaucracies and their own “special interests” of race hustlers. The race hustlers cover a very broad spectrum. They can be the single operators like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, the organizations like ACORN, or the contractual “service providers” of the welfare agencies. The race hustlers either extort money or launder government funds to finance Congressional candidates, and those candidates funnel tax money back into their districts through the massive bureaucracy for the hustlers to guzzle. Nobody gets out of poverty, because it does not serve the interests of any leg of the “iron triangle” for them to do so. Instead, they crave more victims to justify more money, more control, and more power.
I don’t think the liberals today are racist as they were in the 1930’s. If anything, they loathe whites, because having enslaved the blacks, the whites are now the target population. But the growing cycle of dependency, and the growing “iron triangle” of the government dependency model, has spread to an extent that the dependent voters now outnumber the independent. We have 0bama as proof. I think we passed the tipping point and there is no return without a dramatic “crash and burn” for our country.
“For the former slaves, however, generations of servitude left them without a work ethic “
Was their work ethic worse than the norm in Africa or was it better?
Well I certainly hope our upcomming President is an underachiever. He will do less damage that way.
Thank you, good analysis again. I think you're dead on here.
It is difficult to generalize “Africa” at the time. You have some enclaves of civilization, such as Ethiopia, Mali, the Atlantic coast and the Indian Ocean Coast around Zanzibar. There was some social hierarchy there that had to have some sort of work ethic to create it. Many areas were totally undeveloped. As a whole, Africa of 1600 was probably comparable to the steppes Central Asia and outer Mongolia of the 8th Century. There were isolated areas of civilization along the spice & silk routes. The rest were nomadic barbarians. Hard to say Attila’s Huns or Genghis Khan’s hordes didn’t have a work ethic.
If you don’t want to answer just say so.
I think he gave a pretty good answer. Coherent, cogent, and cohesive.
Compare post seven and post 13.
Post seven sounds like an expert on work ethic and post 13 sounds like someone avoiding the question.
The original threads got wiped out during the Y1.94K crisis.
You appear to be trying to force a yes/no answer to further your agenda (whatever that might be) when any thinking person can understand the answer given.
I thought that an opinion would be given if that is what you mean, reading post seven gave me the impression that was a natural follow up question, but if there is an agenda of yours that that brings to mind fill me in on what it is.
Try wording that one again in the morning.
Why don’t you just spell out your agenda so that I can know what it is.
My agenda? Encourage reasonable debate.
Your agenda? I can think of several possibilities, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth. You apparently don’t want to, either.
“Having been an avid student of history, it is clear that our entire country was totally unprepared for emancipation. The abolitionists never gained a consensus to answer the question “once we’ve liberated them, what do we do with them?” Blacks were uneducated (by design), had no property and no resources. The generational poverty stemmed from generations of slavery where the slaves were told what to do and everything was provided for them. Not only were they not expected to think for themselves, it was considered undesirable that they do so. People wonder why they didn’t prosper as well as European immigrants at the same time. The difference is that we got the immigrants who had the initiative to get out of their country and come here to improve their lives. Many of them, particularly the Jews, brought with them an independent work ethic and recognition that education was the key to advancement.
For the former slaves, however, generations of servitude left them without a work ethic (a similar result was shown by the Soviet collective farmers; they had no stake in the property so why work hard?). Generations of ignorance left them without an appreciation for education.
Although around the turn of the century the black community began to realize that family, education, and work were necessary to get ahead, the path was first blocked by segregation laws. Then, when the path was no longer blocked, the government instead placed snares to entrap blacks. We called it welfare. We said it was to “help” them. We’ve enslaved them, to lives just as oppressed as they were when they were property, but without any socially or economically productive result.”
Was their work ethic worse than the norm in Africa or was it better?
Your post 13 seemed suddenly unfocused and too wide ranging
(Genghis Khan?) We know the areas where American slaves mostly came from I thought that you could give a much more focused answer in view of your seemingly deep knowledge of immigrants and slaves, and work ethics and roots.
I see that the, what I assume are racists, are upset about the question being asked at all though, that may explain why post 13 ended up not saying anything.
Well, you wanted to know about work ethic from an area that is also rather wide in scope. Africa included, and still yet includes, many different cultures and levels of development. Slaves were not taken from any particular one of those cultures. If I couldn’t be more specific it’s because it’s not possible to do so, and that was the point of my answer. I’m sorry you could not see that, perhaps I should have expressed myself with more clarity. But as I do enjoy studying history, I would be happy to review any historical studies you are aware of that would shed light on the issue in any greater detail.
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree, and I'm NOT sure why.
There are some obvious truths here:
To claim that slaves in America had no "work ethic" is ludicrous in the extreme, since WORK is the precise reason they were brought here. Those slaves who could not or would not work just didn't survive very long.
So slaves could, would and did work as hard as anyone, and those freed slaves, south and north, worked with no more of a "lash" on their backs than you and I have to get us going in the morning. ;-)
Of course, slaves expected to be taken care of, just like today's "salary-man" in the corporate world, or government employee -- all of whom trade-off self reliance for economic security. There's nothing racial about it.
So, the REAL problem here is the more recent government welfare state, which supplied economic security to anyone who BROKE THE RULES of normal behavior -- no job and no traditional family. The devastation (on all races) brought by these supposedly well-intentioned policies is beyond calculation.
As to the "work ethic" in Africa -- depends on your definitions of the words. Of course, nobody in Africa punched a time clock until very recent years. But throughout history surprising civilizations have risen in Africa. And throughout human existence, people have always done what was necessary to survive and prosper within the norms of their cultures.
So, if you guys are barking about African "work ethics," I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree. ;-)
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