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Right to Keep and Bear Arms
George Mason University ^ | NA | Contennial congress

Posted on 12/31/2008 11:53:37 AM PST by dvan

Right to Keep and Bear Arms

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing." -- Adolph Hitler, Hitler's Secret Conversations 403 (Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens trans., 1961)

What the Framers said about our Second Amendment Rights to Keep and Bear Arms

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

"Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." -- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188 If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair. -- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... " -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." --James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

"To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws." --John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive." --Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

"Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it." --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950]

"The right of the people to keep and bear ... arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country ..." -- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." -- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, August 17, 1789

" ... to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380

" ... but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights ..." -- Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" -- Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836

"The great object is, that every man be armed ... Every one who is able may have a gun." -- Patrick Henry, Elliot, p.3:386

"O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone ..." -- Patrick Henry, Elliot p. 3:50-53, in Virginia Ratifying Convention demanding a guarantee of the right to bear arms

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." -- Zacharia Johnson, delegate to Virginia Ratifying Convention, Elliot, 3:645-6

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms ... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard, against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible." -- Hubert H. Humphrey, Senator, Vice President, 22 October 1959

"The militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpation of power by rulers. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of the republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally ... enable the people to resist and triumph over them." -- Joseph Story, Supreme Court Justice, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, p. 3:746-7, 1833

" ... most attractive to Americans, the possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave, it being the ultimate means by which freedom was to be preserved." -- James Burgh, 18th century English Libertarian writer, Shalhope, The Ideological Origins of the Second Amendment, p.604

"The right [to bear arms] is general. It may be supposed from the phraseology of this provision that the right to keep and bear arms was only guaranteed to the militia; but this would be an interpretation not warranted by the intent. The militia, as has been explained elsewhere, consists of those persons who, under the laws, are liable to the performance of military duty, and are officered and enrolled for service when called upon.... [I]f the right were limited to those enrolled, the purpose of the guarantee might be defeated altogether by the action or the neglect to act of the government it was meant to hold in check. The meaning of the provision undoubtedly is, that the people, from whom the militia must be taken, shall have the right to keep and bear arms, and they need no permission or regulation of law for the purpose. But this enables the government to have a well regulated militia; for to bear arms implies something more than mere keeping; it implies the learning to handle and use them in a way that makes those who keep them ready for their efficient use; in other words, it implies the right to meet for voluntary discipline in arms, observing in so doing the laws of public order." -- Thomas M. Cooley, General Principles of Constitutional Law, Third Edition [1898]

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress ... to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.... " --Samuel Adams


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: 2a; banglist; federalistpapers; firearms; independence; liberty; security; shallnotbeinfringed
I couldn't say it any better.
1 posted on 12/31/2008 11:53:37 AM PST by dvan
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To: dvan

*Bookmark for reference. Thanks for posting.


2 posted on 12/31/2008 11:56:28 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life ;o)
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To: dvan

Well that clears it up for me...I had always thought the 2nd Amendment preserved the right of the people to keep and arm bears...


3 posted on 12/31/2008 11:58:00 AM PST by Snardius
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To: dvan

Good collection of quotes.


4 posted on 12/31/2008 12:02:42 PM PST by rlmorel ("A barrel of monkeys is not fun. In fact, a barrel of monkeys can be quite terrifying!")
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To: Snardius

L

5 posted on 12/31/2008 12:05:25 PM PST by Lurker ("America is at that awkward stage. " Claire Wolfe, call your office.)
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To: dvan

Excellent list of references!

This proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the 2nd amendment was meant primariliy to give the citizens of the US the right to protect themselves from their government.


6 posted on 12/31/2008 12:09:12 PM PST by SoConPubbie (GOP: If you reward bad behavior all you get is more bad behavior.)
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To: dvan

The right to keep and bear arms is as outdated as the requirement that the president be born in the US.

I find most here don’t give a crap if Obama were born in Kenya, but this same group wants others to care about the 2nd.

end rant

Just purchased 200 more rounds of #2 for my 12 ga.


7 posted on 12/31/2008 12:14:00 PM PST by stockpirate (Obama's COLB issue, where's Rush, Laura, Sean, Mark, Malkin & Ann?)
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To: dvan

To the point.


8 posted on 12/31/2008 12:16:00 PM PST by exnavy (Democrats are NOT firearm friendly.)
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To: dvan

Thanks for the post, I have bookmarked for ref.

I always wear tee-shirts with no arms in the summer. So I do support bear arms.


9 posted on 12/31/2008 12:16:30 PM PST by stockpirate (Obama's COLB issue, where's Rush, Laura, Sean, Mark, Malkin & Ann?)
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To: dvan

Just added this one to my “favorites.” Sooner or later the left will attempt to overturn the 2nd amendment. These people are too arrogant, too self-important and far too lusting of absolute power to avoid such a step. I only hope that the American people will finally wake up and take back the nation and their rights when that day comes.


10 posted on 12/31/2008 12:19:11 PM PST by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: dvan

bump


11 posted on 12/31/2008 12:24:24 PM PST by CPT Clay (Drill ANWR, Personal Accounts NOW ,)
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To: dvan
A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.

There I believe is the heart and soul of the second amendment as intended. It is also, unfortunately, completely false. When Webster refers to "a military force" he means what we today call police. Well we have that "military force" today and we are also well armed, yet we are routinely forced to accept public policies we don't want.

12 posted on 12/31/2008 12:24:24 PM PST by SeeSharp
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To: stockpirate
Just purchased 200 more rounds of #2 for my 12 ga.

The expression is "BLOAT", not "GLOAT". :o)

13 posted on 12/31/2008 12:32:27 PM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Illegal Immigration is not about the immigration. Gun control is not about the guns.)
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To: dvan

“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”


14 posted on 12/31/2008 12:40:28 PM PST by mojitojoe
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To: Oldpuppymax

Just a thought; when you feel it’s time to hide them, to bury them,,,, it’s actually time to use them.


15 posted on 12/31/2008 1:03:35 PM PST by DesertRhino (Dogs earn the title of "man's best friend", Muslims hate dogs,,add that up.)
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To: stockpirate

I’ve noticed for quite some time that most new brides wear strapless wedding gowns.

They too believe in the right to bare arms (right to bare arms and shoulders? right to shoulder and bear arms?)

Anyway, lots of good-looking Second Amendment Sisters on the bridal page (do they bear arms or bare their arms?)

;^)


16 posted on 12/31/2008 1:30:23 PM PST by elcid1970 (O Muslim! My cartridges are dipped in pig grease.)
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To: dvan

I love the wording the “right shall not be infringed upon”. The founding fathers saw the right to bear arms, and all rights for that matter, as birth-rights. Rights that exist not because of the constitution, and not only for Americans, but for all men simply because they are born.

It’s such a hard concept for so many to accept. As children we were use to needing permission from our parents to do things. It’s amazing to me how the vast majority of adults still have the fear of making mommy and daddy (authority) mad and will back down even when right if confronted by authority.

Thats what would make the guys who started all this spin in their graves.


17 posted on 12/31/2008 1:34:09 PM PST by TruthBeforeAll (The easier it is to vote, the more stupid and lazy people will vote.)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: dvan

Ping!


19 posted on 12/31/2008 2:43:13 PM PST by mr_hammer ("Before you were formed in the womb, I knew you")
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To: dvan

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence."

-- Charles A. Beard, Historian (1874-1948)


"The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state controlled police and the military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an "equalizer." Egalite implies liberte. And always will. Let us hope our weapons are never needed--but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny... If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government--and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."

-- Edward Abbey, The Right to Bear Arms, 1979



Quotes from the Founding Fathers and Their Contemporaries



ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!



20 posted on 12/31/2008 7:07:29 PM PST by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
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To: dvan

“From my cold dead hands....” Charlton Heston NRA President 1999-2003.


21 posted on 01/01/2009 3:11:01 PM PST by TheConservativeParty ("A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not why the ship was built." by The First Gal of AK)
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To: andy58-in-nh
Sorry-to-agree-with-you bump.

BTTT.

22 posted on 01/02/2009 2:30:36 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: EdReform; dvan; stockpirate; All
Ed, good to see you, long time no see.

Everybody, I was shopping gun parts for an imported shotgun and kept running across references to "922r compliant", that the imported gun "is not 922r compliant out-of-the-box with high-capacity magazines".

What is that all about? The (expired) Clinton gun ban?

Is it still relevant? Do I have to modify the imported piece with aftermarket U.S. content before using the "noncompliant" magazines?

Or is that Old Clintonspeak, and no longer operative?

Second question: What's the consensus here: Can Red Nancy and the Magic Negro do a retroactive gun ban to January 1? Retroactivity (unconstitutional) has never bothered Congress when it came to raising taxes.

23 posted on 01/02/2009 2:37:34 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Further to my last: Please FReepmail me with replies if there is indeed a legal bind. No point in letting people off-site know what we're thinking.

Thanks muy muchesimo mucho, in advance.

24 posted on 01/02/2009 2:39:13 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus

Taking a guess here, but I believe `922r compliant’ refers to the number of imported versus U.S. made parts which make up a legal semi-automatic firearm. Usually applied to AK-47 lookalikes where an American made receiver is built into a rifle using imported parts. IIRC, at least six component parts must be U.S. made.

All this is subject to change under the incoming New Order. But the Anointed One may just have too full a plate for the time being.


25 posted on 01/02/2009 1:47:13 PM PST by elcid1970 (O Muslim! My cartridges are dipped in pig grease.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Great to see you again, too! Happy New Year - hope all is well!

I'm not up to speed on 922r compliance, but based on the recent activity in this forum - Saiga 922r Compliance / THE LAW - it looks like it's still relevant.

As far as the consensus of a retroactive gun ban to January 1, they'd be stupid to attempt it. However the Democrat Party is now in charge, so you can expect extreme levels of stupidity beginning January 21. They'd be wise to just leave gun owners alone.

Do you read the NRA's America's 1st Freedom magazine? There is an article titled Beware The Rahm (Emanuel) in the January issue. Scary reading. The article is also online here: http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=339&issue=047. Pelosi and Obama are just the tip of the iceberg.

26 posted on 01/02/2009 2:30:30 PM PST by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
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To: elcid1970
I took a look and it seems that the Clinton gun ban wasn't all the damage they did back then -- they apparently amended the old 60's Gun Control Act and stuck this "if it has AK parts in it, it's an AK" clause in there, to prevent gunsmiths from smithing their way around the ban on imported AK's, FN/FAL's, Galils, etc.

It's a content-based restriction the point of which was to support Clinton's gun-ban legislation, but it apparently was done as a modification to USC elsewhere and was not subject to the Clinton ban's sunset provision.

Someone was being flat nasty when they thought that up.

Now you've got legally imported legal guns that are being snagged by the 922(r) clause even though they're legal, because NIB they contain too much "prohibited" content, i.e. foreign parts on the Klintoon hate-list.

Ain't that rich? Another liberal Catch-22.

27 posted on 01/07/2009 2:52:06 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: EdReform
Ed, thanks for the link. I'll check up on Rahm later. I just got an eyeful of the grabbers' 922(r) droppings, and need to go wash my face.
28 posted on 01/07/2009 2:53:46 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: elcid1970
All this is subject to change under the incoming New Order. But the Anointed One may just have too full a plate for the time being.

Well, it looks like Jan. 21 might be a good date to get all this stuff done by -- no telling what executive orders his little Red termites have got already typed up for his signature.

Welcome to East Germany, ca. 1970.

29 posted on 01/07/2009 2:57:01 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus

“Welcome to East Germany, ca. 1970”

Well, in 1970 I was in West Germany buying many fine firearms at bargain prices.

But a comparison to the GDR begs the question: what in the coming Days of Obama will correspond to the Stasi, or the Gestapo before that? BATFE obviously, but the Stasi had under its control a network of informers about four to five times the number of actual secret police. Some of these were true believers in Marx and Lenin, but most had been compromised in some way and were forced to inform to keep their own hides out of the labor camps.

It’s been tried here before, usually in big cities with antigun mayors: “If you suspect your neighbor has a gun, call this toll-free number and you do not have to give your name.”

I too am wondering if that coming blizzard of Obama executive orders will be signed exclusively in red ink.


30 posted on 01/07/2009 5:34:19 AM PST by elcid1970 ("O Muslim! My cartridges are dipped in pig grease!")
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