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Tools for Migrating from Windows to Linux
Datamation ^ | 6 January 2009 | Matt Hartley

Posted on 01/07/2009 6:01:51 AM PST by ShadowAce

Taking baby steps to become more familiar with a new operating system can be as simple as revamping the OS already in use on your computer. It begins with unlearning Windows-born behavior to free up your mind for a new way of doing things.

Here are some tips on utilizing different open source resources to make the goal of a full time switch over to Linux a lasting one:

Relearning software installation with Win-Get

For Windows users, software installation is nearly always accomplished from some sort of simple GUI installer. The idea is basically to keep pounding away on the "next" button until the installer alerts its user that the installation has completed.

Linux users, on the other hand, generally prefer the simplicity of installing software through a command line prompt. Different distributions have different means of making this happen, but generally the end goal is the same – install/remove/update some specific software package.

To become more familiar with this sort of behavior, I suggest getting your feet wet in the Windows world using a program called Win-Get. Based off of the same methodology of software installation for Debian Linux-based distributions, Win-Get allows its users to add and remove software via the command line using commands that are similar to what would be used in a Linux distribution such as Ubuntu.

Potential users should be aware that proprietary applications are included with open source software offerings through this program. Applications such as Adobe Reader, AVG anti-virus, Avast anti-virus are among a number of other closed source programs made available to those who opt to install Win-Get onto their Windows PCs.

While these applications are perfectly fine to use, I want to stress that not all applications offered in this way are of the open source variety.

Using a Live CD to learn Linux is simply not practical for someone interested in making a long-term switch over to desktop Linux.

Why? Being able to install and update software from the command line is going to make for a more effective Linux user in the long run. Yet at the same time, no one running a Live CD is going to fully grasp this without some previous experience.

Besides the familiarity issue, should a software installation go poorly, it will be the command line that will yield the most relevant information as to what might have taken place. So clearly, learning to become comfortable in this environment now has its merit.

Taking the keys away from the administrator with suDown

One of the first things Windows XP users complain about is the need to deal with a prompt every time they wish to install or remove some piece of software after trying to work with sudo user-enabled distributions such as Ubuntu.

While some of us might point out that this same user could very well take it upon themselves to simply becoming root, the obvious dangers of running as an administrator go without saying. Clearly, running as a limited user of sorts is an important part of a very basic level of desktop security.

As Windows XP is "wide open" due to its issuing administrator accounts without any real warning as to how dangerous this truly is, it makes Windows XP the perfect candidate for a fantastic tool known as SuRun.

Unlike other open source sudo user tools for Windows, SuRun works well with Vista's UAC in addition to enabling the XP user to become more familiar with the idea of dealing with a prompt to accomplish specific tasks.

What I find most valuable about using this software is that it illustrates how many programs need to be operated using elevated credentials -- as most programs in desktop Linux do not need this when operating as a standard, non-administrator user.

While I see no inherent security concerns myself, the biggest issue is a false sense of security, as no matter what band-aid solution one uses, Windows remains an inherently insecure operating system as it continues to insist on running users as administrators. Protection tools aside, it is insecure – period.

Realizing how desktop Linux distributions such as Ubuntu provide sudo level functionality by default provides some motivation behind moving beyond what this program can do and into an operating system that provides improved security out of the box.

Why install this yourself when you can simply choose a working Linux distribution that can do it for you out of the box?

Open source software in lieu to proprietary applications

Which applications are truly straight alternatives to those from the proprietary side of the fence?

The fact of the matter is no matter how badly a potential new Linux user might want to make the switch, not really understanding which software is the best replacement for what they used in Windows previously can soon become a real buzz kill to any Linux migration excitement.

Using the fantastic website known simply as Open Source As Alternative is perhaps the most straight forward means of discovering software that can help you to break free from your closed source masters.

I see nothing but good things coming from this. Open Source As Alternative helps Windows users becoming more familiar with software that they can then migrate over to Linux with. Gimp, Dia, Quanta Plus – the list just keeps growing thanks to this helpful resource.

I envision a clean migration when the user is ready to move over to the Linux platform. Because they are already used to using the various open source applications linked from the osalt.com website, migration becomes less about trying to figure out which software replaces Windows apps and more about enjoying Linux.

Ext2 Installable File System For Windows

Despite Linux users enjoying the ability to mount and write to NTFS partitions for daily use with their preferred distro, there is still something to be said about Windows users having the ability to write to their Linux partitions from within Windows itself.

Once thought to be difficult at best, it turns out that with the use of a software program called Ext2 IFS, desktop Linux users that installed their Linux distributions on Ext2 or 3 partitions will be able to write data to these partitions with relative ease.

Another bonus is that Vista users need not worry either, as Ext2 IFS also works very well with Vista installs in addition to other releases such as XP or other NT-based options.

Using Ext2 IFS translates into Windows users using Linux partitions to store their data. I see no potential for data loss by going in this direction and to be totally honest, I’d likely put more stock in the value of a well maintained Ext2 partition than trying to utilize an NTFS option any day of the week.

Ext2 IFS combined with the previously highlighted efforts in this article can empower otherwise hesitant Windows users to make the switch to desktop Linux for good.

Here’s the key I would like readers to take away from this:

Switching to a Linux distribution for good takes a lot more than finding a Linux distribution that makes using it easy. There is also the matter of becoming used to the general flow of using Linux and the applications native to its world. With any luck, this article will serve to inspire those interested in taking the leap and making it stick.


TOPICS: Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: linux; windows
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1 posted on 01/07/2009 6:01:52 AM PST by ShadowAce
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To: rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

2 posted on 01/07/2009 6:02:11 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: ShadowAce

I started in DOS at age 11, and now nearly 20 years later with a professional career in software development I can honestly say that I am completely unimpressed with the mass of Linux derivatives and their clunky and/or non-existent UI and completely ambiguous error messages.

If Linux developers want people to use their creations they need to understand how a typical computer user operates. If they don’t want Linux to operate like Windows that’s fine, but they do need to make it a non-hemorrhoid-inducing activity to get something as simple as a notepad installed; much less, something as complex as WINE.


3 posted on 01/07/2009 6:09:09 AM PST by TheZMan (Troll since 2004, apparently.)
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Mark


4 posted on 01/07/2009 6:23:29 AM PST by bcsco (Illinois politicians should be read their Miranda rights when sworn in to office...)
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To: ShadowAce

bttt


5 posted on 01/07/2009 6:24:41 AM PST by csvset
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To: TheZMan
...I am completely unimpressed with the mass of Linux derivatives and their clunky and/or non-existent UI and completely ambiguous error messages.

Linux apps don't exactly hold a monopoly on ambiguous error messages. Enjoy this screen capture of an error I received from ClearCase:


6 posted on 01/07/2009 6:25:53 AM PST by whd23
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To: ShadowAce

A better alternative than Linux is OpenSolaris. Its real UNIX based on Sun’s Solaris 10 operating system. OpenSolaris is open source. There is lots of free software and it has the GNOME desktop from Linux.

http://www.opensolaris.com


7 posted on 01/07/2009 6:28:55 AM PST by Astronaut
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To: TheZMan

I am in complete agreement with you on this. As such, I will warn you that you will be flamed for your heretical statements.


8 posted on 01/07/2009 6:29:39 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Ronald Reagan had a vision of America. Barack Obama has a vision of Barack Obama.)
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To: TheZMan
...I am completely unimpressed with the mass of Linux derivatives and their clunky and/or non-existent UI...

??? When did you last check out GNOME or KDE?

...they do need to make it a non-hemorrhoid-inducing activity to get something as simple as a notepad installed; much less, something as complex as WINE.

uh, stuff like notepad comes pre-installed, just like windows. As far as installing complex applications, a simple command like "yum install " or "apt-get install " searches the web for the the program, downloads it and all needs prerequisites, and performs all the necessary installation without any further input from the user.

It must've been quite some time ago that you last looked at Linux.

9 posted on 01/07/2009 6:30:51 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: ShadowAce

Funny thing is the biggest MS haters are the ones who don’t know how to use a computer correctly.


10 posted on 01/07/2009 6:33:45 AM PST by gilor (Pull the wool over your own eyes!)
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To: whd23; All

Does Linux have a device driver for my(or any) wireless eithernet usb device? I have a link sys.


11 posted on 01/07/2009 6:38:54 AM PST by central_va (Co. C, 15th Va., Patrick Henry Rifles-The boys of Hanover Co.)
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To: TheZMan

I see the solution to a lot of the Linux problem in doing two things. First of all, put the OS on a chip, including WINE.

Then create an applications organizational structure based on desired applications and computer resources, that orders, downloads, and installs applications for maximum efficiency. This would be done online for the user.

The end result would be something like an ancient batch file, but a drive image as well. Modified with each software addition or deletion to have the best possible system.


12 posted on 01/07/2009 6:40:19 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: ShadowAce
When did you last check out GNOME or KDE?
I agree. I installed Ubuntu (w/ KDE) a couple of years ago on an older PC and was pleasantly surprised.
13 posted on 01/07/2009 6:40:21 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: gilor
Funny thing is the biggest MS haters are the ones who don’t know how to use a computer correctly.

Please define "correctly" here.

14 posted on 01/07/2009 6:42:05 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: TheZMan
Yes, I agree.

I believe that the Linux community must come to terms with the fact that their products must address the issues you point out.

Sadly, the approach of stating, or at least implying strongly, that the average “windoze” users aren't as smart as Linux users remains prevalent.

I hope that the Linux community can find their way past this problem eventually. Watching the evolution of Linux over the years, I think that some of the developers are beginning to “get it”, but it will still take a while.

I enjoy driving a stick-shift vehicle. It's fun to manually control the acceleration, deceleration, torque curve, etc., but my wife (who has, and can drive one) is only interested in owning an automatic. Why? Because she sees the vehicle as simply a means to an end (i.e., getting from here to there without giving any thought to the vehicle).

I could spend a lot of time repeating how much more control over the vehicle she could have, how much more enjoyable it would be, etc. But that would only be received by her as smug and irritating, and it certainly wouldn't change her mind.

I think that Linux devotees continuing to “talk down” to users of windows (or other GUI-faced programs), will only come across as smug and condescending.

I don't think “command line” inputs are ever going to overcome GUI clicking for the average PC user.

15 posted on 01/07/2009 6:42:13 AM PST by Col Freeper (FR is a smorgasbord of Conservative thoughts and ideas - dig in and enjoy it to its fullest!)
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To: TheZMan
I agree with your assessment.

It seems that Linux is more for hobbyists than for practical computing.

There are too many flavors and no real direction.

I have played around with a few of the LiveCD versions. Most of them have failed to recognize all of my PC peripherals.

I have considered buying a cheap PC just to play around with Linux, but so far, I don't see much advantage to that.

[I started with DOS/MSDOS in the early 80s. I went kicking-and-screaming into Windows in the early 90s because that was the direction business environments were going.]

16 posted on 01/07/2009 6:44:26 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: TheZMan

Take a look at Ubuntu 8.04LTS. I’m trying it out as a Windows replacement and its pretty slick. It runs perfectly on my Dell laptop and I have yet to need the command line.

Linux junkies berate Ubuntu as a “beginners” or dumbed-down distro, but that’s because one can do most everything using the GUI instead of command-line. I consider that a plus.


17 posted on 01/07/2009 6:45:51 AM PST by jrp
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To: Col Freeper
You make some very valid points. I agree with them as far as they apply to the people you are talking about.

People should stick with the system they like and that works for them.

This article was not meant as a way of saying everyone should switch to Linux. It was meant as a caveat to those who are considering the switch that there is more to it than merely popping in a disk and then doing the same things they've always done.

18 posted on 01/07/2009 6:47:12 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: ShadowAce
"Please define "correctly" here.

That would be without screwing it up, getting it infected or installing 400 browser toolbars and then wondering "Why is the interweb so slow?".

19 posted on 01/07/2009 6:49:45 AM PST by gilor (Pull the wool over your own eyes!)
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To: whd23

That’s a Rational product for ya. Been a Rational Test Manager/Robot user for > 10 years. They fix nothing, and add features that the REAL users of their products would never use.


20 posted on 01/07/2009 6:49:49 AM PST by Pushead (The highways of history are strewn with the wreckage of the nations that forgot God.)
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To: ShadowAce

I started using Linux back in 98, my first distro was Slack 96, and I can tell you that the difference between now and then is LIGHT YEARS!

Gnome/KDE interfaces are SO much more intuitive now, and simple apps like “Add/Remove Programs” (rather descriptive, isn’t it?) make program management a snap. Even Synaptic is painless. The only time I open a term and go CL is if I want to (which I still do occasionally, just because...VI ya’ll;)

I’m wondering if the writer is stuck on an older form is SuSE or something...


21 posted on 01/07/2009 6:50:04 AM PST by pvoce ('Good' sense and 'Common' sense are two entirely different concepts.)
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To: ShadowAce
[This article was not meant as a way of saying everyone should switch to Linux. It was meant as a caveat to those who are considering the switch that there is more to it than merely popping in a disk and then doing the same things they've always done.]

Good point.

I have tried a number of distributions of Linux, but did not continue with them, for a number of reasons.

Many folks berate Microsoft (often for valid reasons), but having lived in the pre-Microsoft era, and having watched Windows evolve, I personally don't think we (and the world) would be enjoying PCs and the internet without Microsoft's efforts to build and sell their software while providing a product that could be used on such a vast array of evolving PC hardware.

Having said that, I'm glad to see that Microsoft is getting challenged in the softare arena by Linux, Apple, Unix, and anybody else who wants to come and play. Competition is good.

I want Linux to succeed (and I think they will). But anyone providing a product they hope will be successful must recognize what the majority of their intended customers want, and strive mightily to provide it in a way that will not only make those customers happy, it will also make them recommend it highly to others.

Thanks for the response.

22 posted on 01/07/2009 7:01:56 AM PST by Col Freeper (FR is a smorgasbord of Conservative thoughts and ideas - dig in and enjoy it to its fullest!)
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To: TheZMan
I'm in IT Tech Support and was given an old IBM Net-vista, after putzing around with it I got if up and running after zapping the HD, but was unable to install Windows due to licensing issues... So I thought “what the heck” so I loaded UBUNTU 8.4 and then OPEN OFFICE... Now I haven't poked around on a whole bunch but I like having a completely open source machine free of MS
23 posted on 01/07/2009 7:06:19 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: ShadowAce

Thanks much.

Have ordered a refurbished Linux loaded Acer mini-notebook . . . Aspire or some such . . . the one without the HD but with 8 GIG flash drive etc.

Looking forward to playing with it.

Battling Microslop for 20 years is a real put-off.


24 posted on 01/07/2009 7:07:15 AM PST by Quix (LEADRs QUOTEs FM 1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: central_va
Does Linux have a device driver for my(or any) wireless eithernet usb device? I have a link sys.
Most Linux distributions (I use Ubuntu) do have support for wireless USB ethernet devices. I was so surprised at how simple the installation went. Ubuntu immediately recognized the device and used it.
25 posted on 01/07/2009 7:20:13 AM PST by TxAg1981
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Oh I know. Happens every time.


26 posted on 01/07/2009 7:45:43 AM PST by TheZMan (Troll since 2004, apparently.)
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To: jrp

Ubuntu 8.04LTS is one of the finest linux distributions I’ve ever used (even better than 8.10). I’ve installed it on 4 of my computers, all done legally, and for free. It would have cost me hundreds of dollars to do the same with a windows product. I can install and update Ubuntu in about 30 minutes. It comes with all the applications I need already installed (CD/DVD rippers/burners, Skype, OpenOffice, etc.). It’s not perfect (no OS is), but it’s lots easier to install and maintain than a windows OS...for me, anyway.


27 posted on 01/07/2009 7:52:32 AM PST by shorty_harris
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To: TheZMan
I really wanted to replace my Windows machine with Linux last year but eventually concluded that it wasn't yet ready for general home client use, nor was that likely to be the case anytime soon. Linux makes for a fine server and technical office desktop but it's not for the vast majority of home users.

This should come as no surprise. There's no profit motive to compete in this space and both Microsoft and Apple spend billions on it so expecting "free" software to compete in this area is more than a bit optimistic. Linux in the home is best used in embedded devices where the "UI" is completely hidden anyway. Chances are your router, settop box, etc. are already running a Linux version of some sort today.

28 posted on 01/07/2009 8:01:27 AM PST by AustinBill (consequence is what makes our choices real)
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To: ShadowAce

You lost 99.9% of your audience as soon as you mentioned ‘command line’

JB


29 posted on 01/07/2009 8:09:49 AM PST by thatjoeguy (Just my thoughts)
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To: thatjoeguy
You lost 99.9% of your audience as soon as you mentioned ‘command line’

I doubt it. The audience is people who are already considering a switch to Linux. The act of consideration indicates an existing awareness of the command line use in Linux.

This article is not meant to convince people to switch.

30 posted on 01/07/2009 8:11:42 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: central_va
Can't comment on the USB version of a Linksys. I have a T30 Thinkpad that, when it was running W2K, I used an original W54G PC card. The problem with this card in Linux was Broadcom, the makers of the chipset that Linksys used. They wouldn't publish the specs/API to write drivers for. So I had to use NDISWrapper, a kludge that allowed you to use windows drivers.

openSUSE 11.0 finally had enough of the Broadcom code reverse engineered to do away with the kludge.

Now I have a new T61 Thinkpad that has an Intel wireless built in. Support on openSUSE_64 11.1 worked right away, no muss no fuss. So I would suspect that the latest of whatever distro you care to try, will support your wireless unless it is a totally brand spanking new design.

31 posted on 01/07/2009 8:12:09 AM PST by AFreeBird
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To: TheZMan

When is the last time you used Linux and what distro was it?


32 posted on 01/07/2009 8:13:12 AM PST by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: Astronaut

OpenSolaris is coming along well but still is less user friendly in terms of maintenance than Fedora or Suse..


33 posted on 01/07/2009 8:14:18 AM PST by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: TheZMan
When was the last time you took a look? I use KDE, but both it and Gnome have made great strides. I run openSUSE 11.1, both KDE3.x and KDE 4.1 are included and both can be installed and you can switch between them at login. And the Compiz window effects match or exceed anything Vista Aero can do.

These days, you can do anything you like in Linux without touching the CLI. But as someone who started out on DOS, I'm sure you can appreciate the efficiencies of using it, and fully programmable shell scripting.

BTW: I started with DOS too, 1.0 when it was new.

34 posted on 01/07/2009 8:22:20 AM PST by AFreeBird
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To: ShadowAce

“The audience is people who are already considering a switch to Linux.”

That’s the audience I was talking about. Most of the people that look at linux as soon as they realize its not the point-click system they are used too say forget it.

Then there are others that realize they can’t get their favorite games on it (me for one) and also say forget it.

Maybe the 99.9% figure was a little high, that other little (gaming) group needs to be figured in somehow.

JB


35 posted on 01/07/2009 8:25:21 AM PST by thatjoeguy (Just my thoughts)
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To: TomGuy
The ubuntu (wubi) installer is amazing. The ubuntu desktop is more interesting than Windows Vista. The kernel is totally stable and we are doing software development so the system definitely gets hammered from time to time.

The wubi installer can be found here:

http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors#wubi

The bank runs linux on some of the highest transaction rate applications (WebSphere 6.1 on RHEL4) and the load distribution, response time metrics, and other key data points all indicate that linux is rock solid in the enterprise server arena.

36 posted on 01/07/2009 8:29:02 AM PST by gcraig
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To: AFreeBird

I was playing around with Ubuntu/Kubuntu 8 on my laptop. It, too, has a Broadcom-based wireless NIC that Ubuntu didn’t have a driver for. I found something (don’t remember what) that would “extract” code from the Windows driver to make it work in Ubuntu, but the bugs hadn’t been worked out of the extracting process, so I dumped Ubuntu. Everything else worked nicely, but it was pointless without a working WLAN connection.


37 posted on 01/07/2009 8:33:26 AM PST by AF_Blue ("Give her hell from us, Peeves." - Fred Weasley, R.I.P.)
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To: whd23
I might have you beat in that regard.

 

38 posted on 01/07/2009 8:41:21 AM PST by JoJo Gunn
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To: ShadowAce

The first time I tried Linux, I had a dual-boot system with Windoze, which was a mistake (in retrospect). I found myself going back to Windoze more and more often, since it was easier using something I knew.

Just this week, I backed up my files, ditched Windoze, downloaded and exclusively installed OPENSuSE 11.1/KDE 4.

Some minor glitches, and I still have a lot to learn, but I’m confident that I’ll do well with it. No more worry about virus scans, running SpyBot, updating Windoze with security updates, etc. I’ve pretty much found replacement programs for everything I have on Windoze, so I’m happy.


39 posted on 01/07/2009 8:45:07 AM PST by Born Conservative (Bohicaville: http://bohicaville.wordpress.com/)
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To: N3WBI3

Ubuntu 7.?. Not sure what the distro was.


40 posted on 01/07/2009 8:45:29 AM PST by TheZMan (Troll since 2004, apparently.)
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To: AF_Blue

Check out NDISwrapper. It’s a kludge, but it does work. Or get a different wireless card.


41 posted on 01/07/2009 8:57:00 AM PST by AFreeBird
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To: Astronaut

Just what is “better” about OpenSolaris than Linux? I use (regular) Solaris from time to time (I have it installed in VMware on my Linux laptop), but it is kind of a pain. The default userland tools are absolute rubbish. ZFS is nice, but for most people, it’s not something they’d ever use, particularly in a desktop/workstation environment.


42 posted on 01/07/2009 9:05:10 AM PST by B Knotts (ConservatismCentral.com)
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To: ShadowAce; TheZMan
As far as installing complex applications, a simple command like "yum install " or "apt-get install " searches the web for the the program, downloads it and all needs prerequisites, and performs all the necessary installation without any further input from the user.

My last command-line installation was several distributions (and years) ago. All GUI now, through Adept Manager.

43 posted on 01/07/2009 10:10:15 AM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: gilor
Funny thing is the biggest MS haters are the ones who don’t know how to use a computer correctly.

Yah. It's better to hold it with both hands when driving nails.

44 posted on 01/07/2009 10:11:35 AM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: central_va
Does Linux have a device driver for my(or any) wireless eithernet usb device? I have a link sys.

A link sys what? It probably depends upon the distribution, in any event. Kubuntu and Xubuntu have drivers for a number of common WiFi chipsets.

45 posted on 01/07/2009 10:15:57 AM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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Installed Ubuntu 8.04LTS on 2 different laptops a few months ago, dual boot with XP. Ended up using Ubuntu about 80-90% of the time.

There is a learning curve, there's a book on Amazon that explains installing 8.04 and setting it up completely. Very simple to do for beginners, using it. 8.04 much lower maintenance and better suited for daily use.

One thing I haven't caught on to with 8.04, is there a good tutorial out there that explains how to set up different wireless cards that don't work automatically with Network Manager?

Meaning, what are the steps to take when a card doesn't work?...Appreciate any info on that.

46 posted on 01/07/2009 10:23:46 AM PST by msnpatriot
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To: AFreeBird; TheZMan
These days, you can do anything you like in Linux without touching the CLI. But as someone who started out on DOS, I'm sure you can appreciate the efficiencies of using it, and fully programmable shell scripting.
BTW: I started with DOS too, 1.0 when it was new.

Newbies. *\;-) I "started" with IBM 360 & JCL (loved the "online" Wilbur editor, hated JCL), "graduated" to ASR33 Teletype, ROM-based CLI/Assembler w/4k RAM and Tarbell controller (you told it which track to store your code on), then to CP/M (and WordStar, though Ed was okay) before suffering with DOS and its hated EDLIN.

47 posted on 01/07/2009 10:29:11 AM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: msnpatriot
One thing I haven't caught on to with 8.04, is there a good tutorial out there that explains how to set up different wireless cards that don't work automatically with Network Manager?

There are forums for such questions. I've had to use them in the past -- sometimes I had to sign up and ask myself, sometimes somebody else has already asked and been answered. I won't say the system is perfect, but I've often found answers to my questions there.

48 posted on 01/07/2009 10:31:57 AM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: gcraig

I tried that wubi.

Nice installer.

But....

It did install Ubuntu dual boot.

I booted into Ubuntu. It finally loaded, but stopped at some $$$ command line.

I have no idea where to go from there. [That is a major problem if Linux people expect non-users to ever convert.]

I finally found a command line ‘help’. It was useless. It had Linux terminology without explanations.

I just wanted to get to the Ubuntu Desktop.

Couldn’t figure out how. It did give an http for help.ubuntu. That was sort of useless because Ubuntu desktop didn’t load, so I finally had to reboot in Windows.

In Windows, the help.ubuntu.com tells how to do things on the Ubuntu Desktop — which was useless because I couldn’t find any way to load the desktop on start up.

==

That is why Linux has a long way to go before replacing Windows.

Linux needs user — not technobabble — documentation. It is reminiscent of the early PC days when the PC came with the technical reference manual and no user documentation. [I used to write user documentation for PCs in the mid-late 80s.]

I, like many users, am just not sure I want to take allot of time to learn a whole new system. With all of its problems Windows loads, goes to a menu, and allows you to select from there.

Ubuntu took me to a $$$command line — without any hint of acceptable commands.


49 posted on 01/07/2009 10:55:53 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: TomGuy
I always read these threads seem to say the same things over and over.

I'm using PCLinuxOS 2007, which is a bit long in the tooth. But it was the first Linux distro that didn't force me to learn the command line. I tried Ubuntu, Knoppix, Suse, and a couple of others before I tried PCLOS. It works without any hassle.

I once opened the command line, out of curiosity. Other than that I have not done anything whatsoever with the CL. Synaptic is so simple to install new stuff, tried and tested for MY distro, why would I want to use the CL? I'm no Linux purist looking down my nose in a snobby fashion. I'm just glad to not put out a hundred bucks every time I pick up a used computer with no OS....

I was looking for a Windows replacement, and I found it. I don't want to learn programming, command line, or any of that. I want to turn on the computer and use it. PCLinuxOS was the only one I tried that I could do just that. I'm anxiously waiting for the 2009 version.

I am very tired of the Ubuntu=Linux mentality. Ubuntu is okay, I suppose. I hated it, but it is the best marketed distro, so whatever.

I do have a beef with USB wireless adapters under Linux. All the cheap Netgear WG111T adapters I bought don't work under Linux natively and take a bunch of work to get going. I bought other wireless adapters instead. The Netgear bits work well under Windows and I still have Windows on a couple of computers, so I can still use them. I'm waiting to see if the newest Linux Kernel addresses these. Suse 11.1 found my Belkin USB wireless adapter, so there's hope.

50 posted on 01/07/2009 11:37:27 AM PST by Big Giant Head (I should change my tagline to "Big Giant penguin on my Head")
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