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Don’t Call it “Darwinism” [religiously defended as "science" by Godless Darwinists]
springerlink ^ | 16 January 2009 | Eugenie C. Scott and Glenn Branch

Posted on 01/28/2009 11:36:17 AM PST by Coyoteman

We will see and hear the term “Darwinism” a lot during 2009, a year during which scientists, teachers, and others who delight in the accomplishments of modern biology will commemorate the 200th anniversary of Darwin’s birth and the 150th anniversary of the publication of On the Origin of Species. But what does “Darwinism” mean? And how is it used? At best, the phrase is ambiguous and misleading about science. At worst, its use echoes a creationist strategy to demonize evolution.

snip...

In summary, then, “Darwinism” is an ambiguous term that impairs communication even about Darwin’s own ideas. It fails to convey the full panoply of modern evolutionary biology accurately, and it fosters the inaccurate perception that the field stagnated for 150 years after Darwin’s day. Moreover, creationists use “Darwinism” to frame evolutionary biology as an ism or ideology, and the public understanding of evolution and science suffers as a result. True, in science, we do not shape our research because of what creationists claim about our subject matter. But when we are in the classroom or otherwise dealing with the public understanding of science, it is entirely appropriate to consider whether what we say may be misunderstood. We cannot expect to change preconceptions if we are not willing to avoid exacerbating them. A first step is eschewing the careless use of “Darwinism.”

(Excerpt) Read more at springerlink.com ...


TOPICS: Education; Science
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; intelligentdesign; notasciencetopic; oldearthspeculation; piltdownman; propellerbeanie; spammer; toe
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To: tacticalogic
The only allegation I’ve made is that you came to me looking to pick a fight.

You mistake me for someone else, perhaps? You accused me of flame-baiting and veiled threats. Now another allegation you can’t support. But, go ahead. Keep talking.

201 posted on 01/28/2009 6:53:51 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: CFC__VRWC
Well, maybe if you were to actually challenge the legions of posters here who adhere to a "flat-earth, (and it's geocentric, not heliocentric - heliocentrism is considered to be just as much of Satan as the ToE is around here) 6-day, 6,000 year YEC, Bible literalist" view, we wouldn't cram you into that box.

I know that there are some who adhere to the 6 day, 6,000 year old earth, but the rest of that crap is science (evolutionist especially) mythology designed simply to discredit the aforementioned beliefs.

If not, please provide sources to support your contention that there are *legions of posters here who adhere to a flat-earth and geocentric* models of the universe, and the pi=3 nonsense and all the other lies that evos spread about someone who disagrees with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_mythology

202 posted on 01/28/2009 6:53:52 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wagglebee

When I see a poster spouting such nonsense as “conservatives” and the “Republican party” and “undermining science” and “whatever will we do as a party if we don’t drink the darwin kool-aid”...it’s a red flag pointing out a liberal from DU.


203 posted on 01/28/2009 6:54:20 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: going hot

[[never thought I would say this, but I do agree with the yote here, and you are way over the top.]]

Coyoteman has been WAY over hte top for many years now belittling Christians, Creationists and ID science supporters with nothign but assinine childish accusaitons that had absolutely NOTHING to do with hte thread’s topics- He was asked many many many times to stop his nonsense and attempts to derail threads he apparently found damaging to his precious beleif in Macroeovlution, and many folks here asked him to knock it off- He refused, and quite frankly peopel have had quite enough of his childish DC-like rants and pat petty criticisms-

If you feel he isosme hero to you- then by all means- go lap his boots clean- He’ needs all the support he can get right now because he lost a LOT of respect here on FR with his incessant rantings and irrelevent petty criticisms and uncivil behaviour.

I personally didn’t want to see him get himself banned- but he was on a 1000 mph ride straight for that cliff and he has noone to blame but himself- if you feel that makes him a ‘martyre for hte cause’ then whatever-


204 posted on 01/28/2009 6:55:44 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: wagglebee
There was NEVER a need to use this theory to condone evil,

I did not say there was. What I asked was, let's say we have a scientific theory which happens to be true, and which also happens to have been used to condone evil. What do we do with the theory?

205 posted on 01/28/2009 6:57:06 PM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: tpanther

*Gently reminding* someone of something that didn’t exist.

Cute.

In his paranoia, he clearly had his forums mixed up.


206 posted on 01/28/2009 6:57:25 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: tpanther

Pretty much every FRevo has an account over at DC.


207 posted on 01/28/2009 6:58:00 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: CE2949BB
Maybe you forgot how badly Sarah Palin was mocked - rightly or wrongly - for her supposed Creationist beliefs?

No. But I also noted that it was by you and your crowd.

208 posted on 01/28/2009 6:59:37 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: CE2949BB
Correction:

Maybe you forgot how badly Sarah Palin was mocked - rightly or wrongly - for her supposed Creationist beliefs?

No. But I also noted that it was by you and your crowd.

209 posted on 01/28/2009 7:00:15 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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Comment #210 Removed by Moderator

To: CFC__VRWC

[[If the shoe fits, wear it. And until you actually start demanding that these lunatics post some actual proof of their assertions that dinosaurs rode on Noah’s Ark and that the earth is the immovable center of the universe, among other things, I and every other semi-rational person who reads your nonsense will continue to cram you into that little box right along side the rest of the Luddites.]]

geee- such hostility- whatever shall we luddites do? Why now you’ve done it- you’ve gone and hurt out delicate little feelings- Golly- We’ll never recover from such assinine rantings such as you exibit- gee whiz molly- throw me that box of kleenex- the little feller has hurt our feelings.

I see DC has sent it’s lackeys to rant and rave in coyote’s absence- You sound just as rediculous as he did- pretendign to be all sciencey & all- looking down yer nose and spitting contempt- Swell- one minor annoyance gone, only to be replaced with another- lucky FR


211 posted on 01/28/2009 7:01:52 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: metmom; All
Maybe you forgot how badly Sarah Palin was mocked - rightly or wrongly - for her supposed Creationist beliefs?

No. But I also noted that it was by you and your crowd.

As you love to say, MetMom, please provide sources.

I voted for McCain & Palin. Show me where I mocked her.

212 posted on 01/28/2009 7:02:03 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: metmom
If not, please provide sources to support your contention that there are *legions of posters here who adhere to a flat-earth and geocentric* models of the universe, and the pi=3 nonsense and all the other lies that evos spread about someone who disagrees with them.

Sorry, I'm not going to play your game. If you won't bother to take a look around for yourself at what people are posting on this forum, and if you're going to deny that when they do post you never challenge them, then there's nothing I can say that you won't just dismiss out of hand.

213 posted on 01/28/2009 7:02:36 PM PST by CFC__VRWC
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To: YHAOS

No mistake. You’re the one who came to me.


214 posted on 01/28/2009 7:03:38 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical; wagglebee
What I asked was, let's say we have a scientific theory which happens to be true, and which also happens to have been used to condone evil. What do we do with the theory?

That'll be a good question to keep in mind should the situation ever arise. But until we have a *THEORY* that is *TRUE*, it'll just have to sit on the back burner.

Don't forget that truth is a word best avoided in science so science can't declare that something is true.

Brought to you by the folks at caltech of all places. And they should know if anyone does.

For the lurkers not following the discussion, I frequently post a definition from a CalTech physics website: Truth: This is a word best avoided entirely in physics [and science] except when placed in quotes, or with careful qualification. Its colloquial use has so many shades of meaning from ‘it seems to be correct’ to the absolute truths claimed by religion, that it’s use causes nothing but misunderstanding. Someone once said "Science seeks proximate (approximate) truths." Others speak of provisional or tentative truths. Certainly science claims no final or absolute truths.

http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/jarrett/LiU/resource/misused_glossary.html

215 posted on 01/28/2009 7:05:43 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: tacticalogic

You should stop chewing at your ankles and try some depends.


216 posted on 01/28/2009 7:06:39 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: mgstarr; Coyoteman
Which sized finches are flourishing in the Galapagos this year?
217 posted on 01/28/2009 7:07:03 PM PST by Radix (There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those with loaded guns & those who dig. You dig.)
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To: CE2949BB

I posted the correction. Keep reading.


218 posted on 01/28/2009 7:07:04 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: YHAOS

You need me to get mad, and I’m not going to give it to you.


219 posted on 01/28/2009 7:07:41 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tpanther

You should try some more original insults.


220 posted on 01/28/2009 7:08:29 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: CE2949BB

Yes, I do remember Sara Palin being attacked for her religious beliefs...Matt Damon comes to mind.

Are you seriously asserting we should care about what hollyweirdos think of us?


221 posted on 01/28/2009 7:08:31 PM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: CFC__VRWC

I don’t deny that there are those who believe in the 6 day, 6,000 year old earth creation.

It’s the rest of the crap and you actually did post all the links to those comments you could find, because they don’t exist and everyone knows it.

But the *go look it up for yourself* nonsense is the very thing FRevos condemn with creationists respond in the same way.

Rules for thee but not for me.


222 posted on 01/28/2009 7:09:32 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: CottShop
I spend time talking to the oak posts I have stored out back for firewood.

They are less dense. They burn clean.

Regards your excellent wit and debating skills, and even your brilliant analysis of topics which you demonstrate a remarkable skill in presenting in a cogent and well thought out easy to understand manner, I stand in awe.

Your posts themselves do great justice in dispelling any fears or doubts regards your beliefs, and well thought out, well reasoned, polished presentations of fact.

To say you have no basis or foundation for what you spew would in fact, be in error.

It is, in fact, ingrained in your psyche.

IF only were it so, you would have made someone, somewhere, very proud.

223 posted on 01/28/2009 7:09:33 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: mgstarr

More popcorn, please.


224 posted on 01/28/2009 7:09:44 PM PST by Canedawg (Lincoln freed the slaves, BO will free the terrorists. "Unity of purpose" my a- -, Mr.POS)
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To: DoctorMichael; wendy1946; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson

Do we really need to put up with garbage pictures like this?


225 posted on 01/28/2009 7:10:46 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: DoctorMichael

Bad mojo. Don’t do that.


226 posted on 01/28/2009 7:13:13 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Coyoteman
You are still free to post, apparently.

How did Jim Robinson contradicting your statement about who should be allowed to post on your thread, discourage you from posting?

Just filter out or ignore those whom you find unworthy of responding to.

Those interested in your topic for its sake can still talk to one another.

Cheers!

227 posted on 01/28/2009 7:14:36 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Coyoteman; Jim Robinson

I have not read the entire thread yet, but I do not think that it is appropriate that coyoteman should be banned based on what I have read so far.


228 posted on 01/28/2009 7:15:53 PM PST by Radix (There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those with loaded guns & those who dig. You dig.)
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To: Jim Robinson
I shouda read that post first, before I posted.

It is pretty clear.

229 posted on 01/28/2009 7:18:31 PM PST by Radix (There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those with loaded guns & those who dig. You dig.)
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To: Ron Jeremy; editor-surveyor; RadioAstronomer; doc30; Wonder Warthog; Right Wing Professor
You have been around long enough to remember "physicist", who was not a creationist. Or, do you deny that he was a scientist?

Or RadioAstronomer, or doc30, or Wonder_Warthog.

Or RightWingProfessor...

Cheers!

230 posted on 01/28/2009 7:18:38 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING !

No more calls, please.

We have a winner!

Cheers!

231 posted on 01/28/2009 7:19:42 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Canedawg

I’ve had my fill.

Sometimes I wonder about those who used to argue that the earth was flat...


232 posted on 01/28/2009 7:19:49 PM PST by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: RegulatorCountry
It will not be God who is shown to be the source of discord, though.

And on that, we agree. God is not the source of the discord. Those who presume to speak for Him, however, are another story.

233 posted on 01/28/2009 7:19:54 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: going hot

Scared of addressing htose facts I present I see! That’s alright- just keep attackign hte messenger- seems to be all you ‘scientists’ and ‘real science supporters’ are capable of- We’re used to petty avoidance tactics by you folk- You unwillingness to engage in those htreads is quite telling- but that’s alright- you just continue pretending you are hte only one serious about hte actual science while sitting mute until you find opportunity to belittle and malign- Swell tactic- Swell defense of Macroevolution. “Nuh Uh- What you say isn’t true” isn’t a very convincing coutner-arguement- but do continue to pretend as though it were- Have a nice day


234 posted on 01/28/2009 7:20:00 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: going hot

Scared of addressing htose facts I present I see! That’s alright- just keep attackign hte messenger- seems to be all you ‘scientists’ and ‘real science supporters’ are capable of- We’re used to petty avoidance tactics by you folk- You unwillingness to engage in those htreads is quite telling- but that’s alright- you just continue pretending you are hte only one serious about hte actual science while sitting mute until you find opportunity to belittle and malign- Swell tactic- Swell defense of Macroevolution. “Nuh Uh- What you say isn’t true” isn’t a very convincing coutner-arguement- but do continue to pretend as though it were- Have a nice day


235 posted on 01/28/2009 7:20:42 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Gumlegs
I merely point out that religious believe and the Theory of Evolution are not mutually exclusive.

...and grammar check is your *friend*.

/glass-house-stone-throwing mode>

236 posted on 01/28/2009 7:22:28 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: tpanther
I don't give a rat's ass about Matt Damon or anyone else from Hollywood.

The question he asked - is Sarah Palin a Creationist? - is valid. That was never settled.

You're attempting to frame this in a "cultural war" context, which simply isn't valid.

This is about science. Politics has little, if anything, to do with it.

Much like climate change, people are mixing different worlds.

There is the issue of the science and then there is the issue of the politics. These are two separate worlds.

Accepting the reality of the science doesn't mean you're rejecting God (in the case of evolution) or that you want to dictate what kind of car a person drives (in the case of climate change).

237 posted on 01/28/2009 7:22:51 PM PST by CE2949BB (Fight.)
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To: grey_whiskers
...and grammar check is your *friend*.

Its knot mai knight.

238 posted on 01/28/2009 7:23:30 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: Radix

[[I have not read the entire thread yet, but I do not think that it is appropriate that coyoteman should be banned based on what I have read so far]]

He wasn’t banned solely on that- He’s been askign for a ban for a very long time now so he could then play hte martye over on DC- He got his wish- Everyone knew it was coming- it is no surprise to anyone except htose hwo are feigning shock and disbeleif (not implying you- but several on htis htread have done so)


239 posted on 01/28/2009 7:24:14 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: tacticalogic
No mistake. You’re the one who came to me.

I didn’t come looking for you. You were out FReeping on the thread, so I pinged you. That’s how it’s done hundreds of times a day. Don’t pretend it’s anything special. People are watching.

240 posted on 01/28/2009 7:26:06 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: metmom
Gumlegs: No, I’m pointing out that not everyone who believes in God has to be rabidly anti-science.

You need to be telling that to your fellow DCers. They apparently haven't gotten the message yet.

Nor have some of the folks here.

241 posted on 01/28/2009 7:26:38 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
Those who presume to speak for Him, however, are another story.

Genesis is not the only book in the Bible, that demonstrates man was put here by God, made by Him.

If you reject this, you reject the Bible.

Christian parents are no longer allowed to raise their children as believers. They are ridiculed in the name of a "science" that has gone where science cannot enlighten, into the theological realm.

This is the source of discord.

242 posted on 01/28/2009 7:28:15 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: tacticalogic
You need me to get mad, and I’m not going to give it to you.

Projection again. You really should see someone about that. I don’t need you to do anything. What you’re doing is just fine. People are watching. Don’t worry. I’ll get tired pretty soon and go to bed. Then you can run over to DC and say “I Won! I Won!.”

243 posted on 01/28/2009 7:28:57 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: Gumlegs
Fallacy of adverse consequences. The Theory of Evolution is an observation of how nature works. If some jackass misuses it and twists it, that in no way affects the validity of the observation or the theory.

No, but that still doesn't do anything for those screwed by the jackass's misuse. See also nuclear proliferation.

The problem is that instead of using creation vs. evolution in class to illustrate the differences between scientific methodology and scholasticism or religious faith, many pro-evos try to eliminate religious discussion altogether, or to curtail it altogether.

The problem is a knotty one, and involves such things as religious pluralism, the so-called "separation of Church ad State", and how one goes about gaining consensus when a society goes from majority Christian to merely plurality Christian; and the possible co-opting of legitimate concerns of scientists, by Gramscians and others, to eliminate the role of Christian faith in public life and consciousness.

If Coyote had simply NOT told another poster to shut up (he started the thread, but does not have that authority), and then hadn't mouthed off in full Matt Damon mode to Jim Robinson, he'd still be here.

Cheers!

244 posted on 01/28/2009 7:29:09 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: NicknamedBob
See my post #244 this thread.

Cheers!

245 posted on 01/28/2009 7:30:44 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: YHAOS

You don’t “ping” someone who’s already here.


246 posted on 01/28/2009 7:32:43 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Elsie
Elsie! Long time no "Elsie"!

Cheers!

247 posted on 01/28/2009 7:32:47 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Please show me where the author of the article quoted in this post is in error. I was under the impression he had some knowledge on the topic at hand and, specifically, of the Bible.

Christian parents are no longer allowed to raise their children as believers.

Oh, please.

248 posted on 01/28/2009 7:34:40 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
Do you take their word for it?

Do you agree God was with them?

How does one distinguish from true and false claims that God is with someone?

Cheers!

249 posted on 01/28/2009 7:35:53 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: CE2949BB
"This is about science. Politics has little, if anything, to do with it."

A few years ago I went back to school, after a 20 plus year hiatus.

I was required to pass a number of Science Courses in order to achieve my personal goals.

Perhaps it is limited to Massachusetts, but I can assure you that some Professors are teaching a lot more than just Science out there.

I learned a lot more than just about the Krebs Cycle, or the Golgi Apparatus.

I learned that Ronald Reagan was responsible for the lack of AIDs research funding and that he was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands. A lot more than Science is being promulgated in those liberal enclaves.

What is going on in Colleges & Universities around the nation is an atrocity.

250 posted on 01/28/2009 7:36:13 PM PST by Radix (There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those with loaded guns & those who dig. You dig.)
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