Skip to comments.IN SEARCH OF ONE GOOD JUDGE !
Posted on 02/09/2009 9:30:14 PM PST by rocco55
Andy Martin and Jerome Corsi were both denied access to Obama's birth certificate for not having a "tangible interest" in their quest to view the secured document. After Atty. Berg was denied in Philadelphia for lack of standing, we assumed that Lightfoot vs. Bowen would most certainly fulfill this requirement as Gail Lightfoot was a Vice-presidential candidate and what Justice in the world could ever rule that she didn't have standing ? Well, we all know where that wound up !
And now Keyes vs. Lingle was also dismissed ! If 'standing' was in question, that's unconscionable, but just think, according to Corsi, Linda Lingle actually stated that Mr. Obama's BC is not public information and since he has not requested a copy, she cannot release it (paraphrased).
If Mr. Corsi's account of her comment is factual, hasn't she 'indicted' him ? If BO didn't request his birth cert, where did the one posted on his web site come from ? Can she be questioned in a deposition as a witness even if a case does not involve her directly ? Without asking the state of HI to release a copy of the sacred document, can she simply be asked if BO "EVER" requested a copy of his BC, and if so, when ?
Some assume that the state of Hawaii issued BO a short form birth cert which he posted on his web site, but the "real" (long form) one is locked in a vault ! As far as I know, the state of HI has NEVER issued a comment regarding which TYPE of birth cert is being held in their vault. I've heard all this conjecture about Obama refusing to release his "long form birth certificate", but who ever confirmed that the state even has a long form birth cert ?
Many have implied that the long form birth cert has a line for "foreign" birth (line 7c), but this appears to be referring to the Mother's place of birth and not the child. (see 2/3 thread entitled "Just filed Obama ineligibility AMICUS CURIAE", post 147 for long form image).
Item 6b is for the "island", item 6c is the "hospital" and item 6d asks "is place of birth inside city or town limits, if no, give judicial district".
Since there appears to be an overwhelming preponderance of evidence indicating that Hussein was NOT born in Hawaii, anyone filling out this long form cert would certainly need an addendum to address items 6a, 6b, 6c and 6d. Would an addendum admitting foreign birth be acceptable to the state of HI ? Has anyone provided a long form cert for a "foreign born" child for public view ?
Also, didn't Obama state in one of his books that he often traveled with his birth cert and actually used it as a book mark ? If so, it would certainly exhibit signs of being at least slightly worn or weathered ! However, the on-line short form cert is "far" too perfect to be something that he traveled with and regularly inserted between the pages of his books. It's most likely fraudulent.
So, this bring me to the crux of the matter.
Given these facts, is it possible to find even ONE JUDGE in our entire country that would issue a subpoena to view this document. McCain received 48% of the US votes. And statistics indicate the BO obtained a vast majority of the youth vote (18-30). Consequently, I think it is fair to surmise that at least 50% of the U.S. judges did NOT vote for the Usurper ! That's A LOT of Judges !
So....WHERE ARE THEY ?
Could there actually be a hidden network that includes EVERY SINGLE last Justice in our entire country by which they could privately and secret agree to not EVER hear one case regarding the origin of our president ?? despite the validity of the evidence and the public's right to know ?
Berg stated in his last radio interview that he is just hoping ONE JUDGE SOMEWHERE OUT THERE will consider hearing the merits of his case....and it's really not "his" case, it's the case of "WE THE PEOPLE" !
I would think at least ONE judge somewhere (maybe in TX ? ) or possibly CA would issue a court order to see BO's hidden docs.
If a CA judge takes an interest in this, it could pave the way for Arnold to have a precedent to run in 2012 ! Isn't ANYONE (Hillary, Arnold, Republican party, an honest judge) interested in the truth ? Even if the motivation is to serve their own self interest ?
If they are NOT interested, the question is "WHY NOT ?" How many FReepers are egregiously tormented by this question ?
Should the attorneys (Orly Taitz, Atty. Kreeps, Stephen Pidgeon, etc.) and plaintiffs be JUDGE SHOPPING prior to investing any time and energy into a case that will wind up in the Gehenna heap of "dismissed" files ?
Outside of the judicial "private network" theory, there is not one good explanation for ANY of this, is there ???
How might believers in the U.S. Constitution find ONE JUDGE to fairly represent them ? Is there EVEN ONE in the whole country ?
We the law no longer works to do justice, it's just us. Time for revolution.
If you’ve ever had to deal with the legal system, you would know that they (the legal community) have rules of their own. For example, it’s not important to prosecutors that the plantiff is truthful. And the defense is much more concerned that they maintain ammiable relations with the judge than to forcefully represent their client.
While we would all like to think justice is blind, the fact is that any involved are a$$ kissers to the Nth degree.
At least in the world of engineering, we have rational facts to ground ourselves. In the world of law, there’s no such stable grounding - all so called fact is only human pronouncement hence subject to human failing/misinterpretation.
the environmentalist wackjobs were granted standing to obstruct - i want standing too
Welcome to New Kenya! (Africa U.S.A.)
"Where the law of the jungle has replaced the Law of the Land"
You are so right, it is up to us from here.
the show was one hour and free to listen to at:
the description provided by andrea is:
a new lawsuit challenging Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president, this one targeting Congress as a defendant for its “failure” to uphold the constitutional demand to make sure Obama qualified before approving the Electoral College vote that actually designated him as the occupant of the Oval Office. a new lawsuit challenging Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president, this one targeting Congress as a defendant for its “failure” to uphold the constitutional demand to make sure Obama qualified before approving the Electoral College vote that actually designated him as the occupant of the Oval Office.
We’re never going to win this one. He’s in and he’s entrenched. We just have to saddle up and wait for the right opportunity to pounce. It’s early yet, Bambi will do something something illegal (The Rats can’t help themselves) and we’ll have him out of office and hopefully in prison where he belongs.
Generally speaking, “standing” is a legal “device” used to make sure that a party suing have a “unique” and vested” interest in the outcome. (Those terms have specific legal meanings). It’s real purpose is to make sure that people aren’t suing for anything and everything. For instance, I can’t sue someone who breached your contract if I don’t have a specific legal interest in that contract. Let’s say I am your brother. Of course I have an “interest” in it as I want you to get that to which you are entitled. However, I do not have a “legal” interest in that I was not party to the contract.
As legal procedures developed, this fundamental concept of standing had to be applied to large groups that might want to sue an issue, i.e. class actions, etc. But the standing rulings that are applied in this case are the ones developed in people suing the Govt over general tax issues, i.e. spending taxes on abortion, or war, or research of apples, etc.
Now the problem with the tax cases, if the fact that since you were an American citizen of COURSE you h0ve a vested interest in the matter, and it does affect you directly, is that if you permit the average citizen to sue, you have just spelled the deathknell of our legal system. Millions upon millions of cases would be filed and the system would shut down. So the standing rules that have developed (and these are followed universally by liberal and conservative judges) is that in order to sue you must have an interest in the proceeding unique from the population at large. For instance, if the Govt uses tax money that results in the destruction of your property through government pig farming, then you can sue. However, your neighbor down the street that has religious beliefs that prohibit pig farming may not.
Again, this is one of those very few issues that knows no ideology. Conservative and liberal judges alike are in lock step on standing.
As it pertains to suing over the BC, it’s like the tax cases. You must show something unique in the injury over and above the populace at large. Saying something like “it affects me because it is unconstitutional” isn’t unique. And regardless of what you think of the underlying issue with the BC, it makes no difference if you can’t show a unique injury. If they were to permit standing in the BC case, they would likely have to start permitting the tax cases.
This begs the question . . . who has standing. That’s a good question and beats the hell out of me. I haven’t done mountains of research on these issues but have read many of the pleadings and done a bit of research. The only group that may have standing would be Congress or an elector or some other governmental entity that has some procedural interest in the matter.
Furthermore, there is the problem of even if it gets to SCOTUS, they could even say that the purpose of this constitutional provision was unique to it’s time and that as long as Obama was a citizen at some point is enough. They could also say that the time to object has passes. The could say that it is the sole purview of Congress to decide the issue as they count the electoral votes.
But absent something glaring like Arnold trying to run, this issue is never ever ever ever going to be ruled upon by any court in this country. Ever. It’s always going to get kicked (at some level) due tothe standing issue.
And even if some lower court state judge ruled otherwise, it will be meaningless because nothing will happen as it goes through the appeal process where it will be overturned.
It’s a dead issue and a waste of time. And it isn’t going to be too long before they start hitting the Plaintiffs for costs and attorney’s fees for filing frivolous lawsuits.
And while I know no one here likes this answer, I hope it helped a bit. =)
Apologize for any typos. Too tired to go back and check this. Night.
P.S. Freely petition doesn’t mean ya get to file lawsuits. it just means, pretty much, you can bitch at them and they can’t arrest you for it.
Ever think that maybe, just maybe, that lawsuits filed by people who think 9-11 was an inside job, or that black helicopters sent by Obama are flying over their houses and men in yellow suits are following them, just might not have any merit?
I am loath to suggest this, but look up the definition of standing on wikipedia. (I detest wikipedia.) You don’t need a lawyer. It’s pretty clear (to me) that none of these plantiffs had standing because standing involves more than simply having the right to object. It also requires the plantiff to sustain a tangible loss or damage. Being a candidate in the election doesn’t prove a loss/damage. There is nothing to indicate that the candidate would have won the election had Obama not been on the ballot. Standing also requires that the named defendant had to take some action that made him directly responsible for the plantiff’s loss. If you can’t prove a loss/damage, then, by definition, you can’t prove that the defendant’s action/inaction caused the loss.
The COLB is a forgery, but that doesn’t help us prove anything with regard to standing.
The right combination of circumstances will come along, but judge shopping to get it done is wrong. It’s wrong when it’s done to force gay marriage. It’s wrong when it’s done to further abortion rights. It’s wrong when it’s done to force environmental protection.
Berg’s case at the 3rd District is moving forward as of 5 days ago:
I'm going to go out on a limb **snicker** and predict that it too, will be dismissed.
The only interesting question here how many poor, gullible souls the 9-11 truther will end up conning into giving him money to supporting cases that will inevitably get dismissed.
Drink and celebrate to the Usurper in Chief!
“The only interesting question here how many poor, gullible souls the 9-11 truther will end up conning into giving him money to supporting cases that will inevitably get dismissed.”
Take your sniveling, distorting and misleading pessimism somewhere else. Its perfectly obvious that the very last thing you want is for any of these cases to proceed and you’re simply trying to discourage other people. I wonder why?
why? because he is a damn commie surrender monkey liberal thats why. gutless bastards like him would rather see our nation go down without a fight.
"This ex parte meeting with promises exchanged should settle everything.
Again, thank you!
Yeah like we got BJ Billy with his PROVEN purjury, obstruction of justice, and attempts at subborning witnesses. And, Hillary for comtempt of court for deliberate failure to obey a court's order to produce those Rose Law firm billing records.
I still believe that we’ll find one Judge!
LOL GLAD to. And please don’t tell anyone I made any sense or they’ll drum me out of the Lawyer Corp. Hmm Then again . . . lol
Understand. But it’s the same thing. And there have been some suits filed doing just that, asking the Govt or Govt Official to “do their duty”. It’s called a Writ of Mandamus.
However, the very first question every court ever asks is “does it have jurisdiction” and #2 is standing.
So the standing issue would apply in the case that you suggest and you still run into the same problem.
A very good explanation of standing. Thank you.
Every one of these cases has been dismissed (except for the ones where the judge has not yet ruled on the motion to dismiss). Not one has ever gone beyond the motion to dismiss stage to get into discovery. All of the appeals to the Supreme Court were rejected unanimously, without comment. For the reasons karibdes explained above, not one of these cases is ever going to survive a motion to dismiss. Pointing out some basic principles of American law is not "misleading pessimism," it is recognizing reality. Efforts to oppose Obama's policies should be directed somewhere they will do some good.
could we get any traction with a “class action” case? if that would not have standing, then I don’t know if anyone would.
Whoever files the lawsuit as the representative of the class would have to have standing.
is that not a contradiction? how can a person filing a lawsuit in a class action case have a unique and vested interest?
It is not a dead issue. Go to dr. Edwin Vierira’s web site and read two of his blogs. One in Oct or Nov and one in dec. It tells how a plaintiff will have standing if they are prosecuted for any law Obama signs. This is one way. Orly may have found another.
No because the same test still applies. Even though the class may be large (i.e. like an anti-trust settlement with Microsoft where they end up sending everyone a $5 gift certificate or something just as useless), this is a matter where the damage would affect every American and therefore is not unique enough. It can’t be something that affects the populace in general as the result of some unique relationship between Plaintiff and Defendant.
The only one I saw that actually seemed to “have some merit” would be a soldier suing. That would probably be dismissed on other grounds as well, not to mention the nightmare faced by the soldier who did so.
Again, the only entities that seem to have standing would be Congress or some other governmental entity responsible for approving electors and/or counting the electoral votes.
A typical class action will allege that the defendant cheated a large group of people (e.g., all of the investors in Madoff's hedge fund). The named palintiff has standing (Madoff stole his money) and so do all of the class members. The class-action device merely permits a large number of people to aggregate their claims and sue together (saving the court and the parties the time and trouble of bringing hundreds of separate lawsuits), but each class member must have standing.
or somebody being charged with disobedience to the One.
“Pointing out some basic principles of American law is not “misleading pessimism,” it is recognizing reality.”
And what is constantly trying to associate people making what is a quite reasonable request of a politician to produce something which most people have to supply on a daily with 9/11 truthers?
paid troll is also a likely explanation
OK People Some of you dont get it. There are a few and only a few peoplke who have standing?
John McCain and Sarah Palin!!!!! They were directly harmed by the fact that their opponent was not legally eligible and also because of unfair campaign contributions.
Hillary also would have standing. But she couldnt pursue this because she spent her whole career defending minorities and she could not be caught attacking one. She lived by the sword and died by the sword.
McCain-Palin most definitely have standing.
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