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The Particle Reactor That Creates Mini Black Holes - Jurisdiction?
Scientific Concerns ^ | Scientific Concerns Group

Posted on 02/12/2009 9:06:52 AM PST by iThinkBig

For anyone not initially aware, The LHC (Large Hadron Collider) is a particle accelerator located along the French/Swiss Border, being the Largest Man-made machine ever (also the most expensive), it's biggest item for debate has been it's potential risk (even with a low liklihood for such events, catastrophic risk is still there).

The risk to Put it mildly ranges anywhere from Miniature Black Hole creation(which broken down comes down to the verity of Hawking Radiation, and estimated accretion rates, both based purely from theory), The creation of matter destroying strange matter with a positive charge, or a myriad of other postulated, or potential unknowns.

Although media tends to skew one way or the other, a safety movement has risen out of this, Two lawsuits, one by American citizen Walter L. Wagner (an old friend of Frank Wilczek), and other is the EU by Ottoe Roessler, as well as papers done by Plaga, Helfer, et al.

The site source is actually a site that has been debating the issue for some time now, and amassed quite a bit of information, however the one thing I have taken out of all of this, and the crux of this post, and it's debate is this:

Who should have the final say in issues on a global scale such as this? Who even has Jurisdiction if something could be proven within reasonable doubt that this, or some other future experiments with larger margins of potential danger.

For those unaware, the current idea is to place the burden of proof on the company, or group in charge of said experiment, but is that enough?


TOPICS: Astronomy; Dimensional Doorway; Science; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: blackholes; cern; eu; lhc; particlecollider; stringtheory
the globe comes down to money center power forces, specifically 10 Central Banks located throughout the world. If you could ask who now runs this globe, you could safely say it is these men.

The real concern is that these are the same men whom have created a business model of excess debt and the business cycle ALWAYS end result is depressions, provide little true value for manufacturing money at will for governments and have in the centuries past, funded each other's host nations adversaries for massive debt/war profiteering. The Central Bank of France for example creates money for the Bank of England in the Napolean Wars while the English Central Bank funded Napolean himself. The consolidation of this horrible model has reached a head. These Central Banks now more or less control this globe and are responsible for the current depression. Unfortunately, the last two global crisis' (1907 and 1929) spawned the last two global wars. What would such men do with the ability to weaponize this technology and create mini-black holes? Interesting parallels to the Manhatten Project.

1 posted on 02/12/2009 9:06:52 AM PST by iThinkBig
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To: iThinkBig

The mini black hole speculation is just that, speculation. The energies reached in the search for the theoretical Higgs boson ,for instance, have already been surpassed in places like Fermilab (US). Testing the ‘top end’ so to speak and narrow down the search parameters. No one really knows what happens if they find it. As of right now the weaponization of such particles, which aren’t even known to exist, is science fiction.


2 posted on 02/12/2009 9:14:30 AM PST by allmost
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To: iThinkBig
The LHC is a perfect example of something that should be built on the Moon. If you sucked the moon into a mini black hole it would screw up the night sky, but Earth would still be OK. Its not that I'm against science turning this thing on. I jsut want to be a safe distance away.

You have heard on NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) well this is NOYOP (Not On Your Own Planet). Were are all the envirowacko’s when we need them.

3 posted on 02/12/2009 9:17:32 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: iThinkBig

The Chicken Littles still worrying about this?


4 posted on 02/12/2009 9:17:36 AM PST by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll)
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To: SunkenCiv

Possible ping for your list.


5 posted on 02/12/2009 9:19:11 AM PST by allmost
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To: allmost

We’re looking at weapons the wrong way these days. What is indicated are things like the S (Slammnation) bomb which would consist of flash-dried pork ground 100 times finer than the flash powder used for flintlock rifles and compressed air...


6 posted on 02/12/2009 9:19:33 AM PST by varmintman
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To: iThinkBig
Who should have the final say in issues on a global scale such as this?

On a "global scale such as this?" That's easy. The ones doing the experiment.

Because the only issue 'on a global scale' is the science that will be learned. The 'risk' of a non-evaporating black hole, or some other form of strange matter, is zero - to a lot of decimal places. The fact the evaporation of black holes is a theory is at least as solid as the theory that something bad will come of it.

If you choose to establish some global governance authority - whether it's the top ten banks or you sitting in your den - then that authority would be better off worrying about Wiccan circles chanting in the woods asking for some weird spiritual/magical effects. Those would also require an inversion of known science, and are more likely to occur than globally bad effects from the LHC.
7 posted on 02/12/2009 9:19:56 AM PST by Phlyer
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To: GonzoGOP

That’s exactly what I was thinking.


8 posted on 02/12/2009 9:21:29 AM PST by iThinkBig
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To: Phlyer

Any concerns about weaponizing such science?


9 posted on 02/12/2009 9:22:16 AM PST by iThinkBig
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To: varmintman

I wouldn’t object to a bacon bomb. :)


10 posted on 02/12/2009 9:22:54 AM PST by allmost
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To: GonzoGOP

It really can’t be built on the moon due to the cost. It would be better to isolate these things of course, but a lot of this really sounds like sci-fi based fear mongering to me.


11 posted on 02/12/2009 9:24:48 AM PST by allmost
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To: theDentist

Hawking once said we will blow ourselves up. I think this is HIS plan....to prove how stupid WE can be...


12 posted on 02/12/2009 9:30:55 AM PST by Sacajaweau (I'm planting corn...Have to feed my car.)
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To: iThinkBig

I have to confess that I’m a bit nervous about the Large Hadron Collider. Although I’m not a physicist, even the physicists themselves are not entirely sure what happens at the higher energy levels...if they knew that, then they wouldn’t need to run the experiments. If a non-evaporating black hole ever did get created, I’m thinking that it would be very self-reinforcing, and would quickly propagate so that the entire earth, almost instantaneously, would be compressed into a near-singularity.


13 posted on 02/12/2009 9:39:13 AM PST by Texan Tory
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To: Sacajaweau

If we “blow ourselves up” it’s going to be the result of nuclear weapons, and still people would survive. However, were it to be resulting from our somehow creating a black hole, what a spectacular way to go! My only question is: would all the air be sucked in before the rest of the world, resulting in a mass asphyxiation first?


14 posted on 02/12/2009 9:41:25 AM PST by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll)
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To: Sacajaweau

They should fire-up this baby on Dec.21st,2012!


15 posted on 02/12/2009 9:41:45 AM PST by Dr. Ursus
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To: iThinkBig
Oh geez, NTSA. Higher energy level collisions happen in the Sun constantly. It has only lasted several billion years without being chewed up by a black hole or strange matter. This is just a case of scientifically illiterate people confusing science fiction for science and panicking...
16 posted on 02/12/2009 9:56:15 AM PST by piytar (Atlas is Shrugging. I am Atlas.)
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To: iThinkBig

Launching a rocket into space could pierce the atmosphere, causing all our air to leak out and destroy the planet...

What is this, 1920s redux?


17 posted on 02/12/2009 9:57:03 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: piytar

Could be. Not my article but was curious of more of the facts. The consensus thus far it is virtually mathmatically impossible.


18 posted on 02/12/2009 10:31:16 AM PST by iThinkBig
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To: allmost
"It really can’t be built on the moon due to the cost."

Oh come on one or to Porkulous* worth and you could build a moon base. And ride up to it on Obamas candy pooping unicorn.

* I'm attempting to institute the Porkulous as the new scientific measure of government waste.
19 posted on 02/12/2009 11:35:00 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: MrEdd; iThinkBig

Don’t worry, we’ll all drown in global-warming-created flooding long before this becomes a problem.


20 posted on 02/12/2009 11:36:33 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (This disaster brought to you by the failed Obama administration.)
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To: GonzoGOP
Start printing Zimbabwe type notes. Denominations of 1, 5, and 20 porkuli should get us started right?
:)
21 posted on 02/12/2009 11:41:13 AM PST by allmost
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To: allmost
Start printing Zimbabwe type notes. Denominations of 1, 5, and 20 porkuli should get us started right?

Sure put Pelosi's face on the P20. The bills would be made out of SillyPutty just like her face.
22 posted on 02/12/2009 11:46:59 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: allmost; AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; ...
Thanks allmost!

· Google ·

23 posted on 02/12/2009 3:35:59 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Dan7878787

Great point. In general, I expect a world war soon if history is any guide. But let me say this: I don’t lose sleep over it and instead, building the tech mechanisms for serious debate and actionable plans for the global online community. Since I speak with citizens all over the planet, I can say we all want a better world and an end to this current crop of failed leadership. The failures were driven by an economic model of debt, also called the Efficient Market Hyposis. That model created a lot of very bad habits in leadership and consumer behavior.


25 posted on 02/16/2009 9:13:06 AM PST by iThinkBig
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To: Dr. Ursus

“They should fire-up this baby on Dec.21st,2012!”

Ahh, right at the end of this era and the beginnings of a new one. Let me tell you something. Expect the real global troubles to begin at that times, turn into world war and be over by 2021. But also, the world does not fully learn at that point and we all don’t start singing Kumbaya. We just will have better opportunity to collaberate on a global scale to BEGIN creating that better era.


26 posted on 02/16/2009 9:15:25 AM PST by iThinkBig
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To: iThinkBig

I saw a deal on TV the other night about it. They expect Black Holes but they are microscopic in size and exist for nanoseconds because of their evaporation rates.


27 posted on 11/08/2009 6:06:38 PM PST by Diggity
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