Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why That Big Meal You Just Ate Made You Hungry
Wall St Journal ^ | 4/14/2009 | MELINDA BECK

Posted on 04/14/2009 11:42:35 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies

But veteran dieters know something that some researchers apparently don't: Certain foods seem to fuel the appetite like pouring gasoline on a fire. Some people find that once they start eating bread, cookies, chocolate, potato chips -- or leftover Easter candy -- they lose all sense of fullness and find it difficult to stop.

...

After 23 years of treating patients -- some of it espousing liquid diets -- Dr. Aronne has concluded that refined carbohydrates and foods with high sugar and fat content promote what he calls "fullness resistance." They interfere with the complex hormonal messages the body usually sends to the brain to signal that it's time to stop eating. People feel hungrier instead.

This happens in part because refined carbohydrates raise blood-sugar levels, setting up an insulin surge that drives blood sugar down again, causing rebound hunger. That insulin spike also interferes with leptin, the hormone secreted by fat cells that should tell the body to stop eating. Obese people have loads of leptin, but it either doesn't get to the brain, or the brain becomes resistant to it. "This is not a failure of willpower, it's a physical mechanism," Dr. Aronne writes. The body also becomes resistant to insulin, setting the stage for diabetes.

Other researchers have described similar phenomena. An article in this month's Medical Hypothesis argues that for some people, refined foods with high sugar and carbohydrate content can be just as addictive as tobacco and alcohol.

Eating foods high in protein, vegetables, fiber and water have the opposite effect, Dr. Aronne says. His plan recommends revising what you eat, one meal at a time, to restore your sense of fullness:

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Food; Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: atkins; food; health
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-56 next last

1 posted on 04/14/2009 11:42:35 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

OK ... so how do I get rid of the belly and side fat?


2 posted on 04/14/2009 11:50:19 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

Dr. Atkins wrote the same thing over 30 years ago.


3 posted on 04/14/2009 11:50:51 AM PDT by since1868
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knarf

ping


4 posted on 04/14/2009 11:53:34 AM PDT by VaRepublican (I would propagate taglines but I don't know how.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

Good thing I eat plenty of raw vegetables and juice my own fruit.


5 posted on 04/14/2009 11:55:30 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knarf

For me, getting rid of the belly fat: protein...stock up on the protein. Exercise. Watch the fat content. And if you eat carbs, eat them in the am.

I made the mistake of eating the eggs and bacon breakfast I cooked the boyfriend every weekend morning. And my middle went from taunt to flabby in a matter of 6 months.

It’s back to loads of protein and very little fat for me...and sit ups.


6 posted on 04/14/2009 11:56:26 AM PDT by hoe_cake (" 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

“Some people find that once they start eating bread, cookies, chocolate, potato chips — or leftover Easter candy — they lose all sense of fullness and find it difficult to stop.”

This is the metabolic mechanism of high fructose corn syrup, which is now used in everything.


7 posted on 04/14/2009 11:58:04 AM PDT by Mister Muggles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

But, But —— All the professionals say eggs kill!


8 posted on 04/14/2009 11:58:31 AM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gulch.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: since1868
Yep...and, except for the fact that I add high fiber cereal (the higher the better), that is still my favorite and most effective diet. In fact, that has been my daily diet for about 30 yrs and it works like a charm.

Plus, 40-70 minutes of intense exercise daily, of course.

9 posted on 04/14/2009 12:00:45 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: knarf
The idea of spot dieting is a myth. Lose fat overall and it will eventually come off.

I also follow the Crossfit.com program (greatly modified) and have been thinking about P90X.

Work around what ever injuries you have and progress very slowly...and most of all, always make sure exercise is fun!!!

BTW, the Crossfit program has been adopted by the Navy Seals and the Army and USMC have adopted large parts of it. If you start slowly and carefully you can get extremely fit.

10 posted on 04/14/2009 12:06:36 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies
Certain foods seem to fuel the appetite like pouring gasoline on a fire. Some people find that once they start eating bread, cookies, chocolate, potato chips -- or leftover Easter candy -- they lose all sense of fullness and find it difficult to stop.

Banana pudding... mac & cheese.

11 posted on 04/14/2009 12:08:26 PM PDT by Sloth (The tree of liberty desperately needs watering.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hoe_cake

I guess I don’t understand. Aren’t eggs and bacon considered protein?


12 posted on 04/14/2009 12:09:09 PM PDT by mplsconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: mplsconservative

yes, but bacon is nothing BUT fat. My rule of thumb has been to eat what I wanted but only a small portion. I let my fat content get the best of me. And my carb intake is out of control, too, hence the sugar cravings.


13 posted on 04/14/2009 12:12:54 PM PDT by hoe_cake (" 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Sloth
Banana pudding... mac & cheese.

Love it.

I give myself one opportunity a month to break my diet with guilty pleasure. Usually, it is a Wendy's double cheese and large fry (but I might consider the banana pudding some time).

14 posted on 04/14/2009 12:12:54 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies
"Plus, 40-70 minutes of intense exercise daily, of course."

Ahhh now ... THERE'S the rub.

I'm layed off from work so I try to do the housework the hardest way I can ... I vacuumn, but sweep the carpet first with a broom (a vacuumn is NOT a sweeper ... a sweeper has a broom in his oe her hands), a lot of bend over and pick-it-up stuff, etc.

I'm becoming addicted to garden salads, rabbit food (discovery; sub fresh strawberries for tomatoes, use sweet and sour salad dressing) so I eat a lot of fresh, raw veggies ... the occasional hamburger, cold cereal at night, snack on oranges and apples during the day .. lots of coffee.

and I'm putting on weight.

I'm beginning to think there's not a damned thing anyone can do about anything regarding their weight and their shape/size.

Unless it is all hormonal (I'm 61) and I should just start shooting testosterone.

15 posted on 04/14/2009 12:13:03 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: mplsconservative

a lot of bacon is sugar cured.

and even the bacon that is not, the browning action produces a sugar.


16 posted on 04/14/2009 12:14:03 PM PDT by staytrue
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: hoe_cake; mplsconservative
For the most part, high protein diets don't have a problem with fat consumption (in fact the diet--Zone, I think--recommended by Crossfit suggests 40% protein, 40% fat and 20% carb).

Body fat buildup usually comes from too much carb...not too much dietary fat.

And of course, exercise offsets a multitude of dietary sins.

17 posted on 04/14/2009 12:17:04 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: hoe_cake

Thanks. But, once in awhile bacon is soooo good. I don’t take kindly to carbs either but thankfully I don’t crave them very often.


18 posted on 04/14/2009 12:18:31 PM PDT by mplsconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: staytrue

That is probably why it tastes so good. :)


19 posted on 04/14/2009 12:19:32 PM PDT by mplsconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Mister Muggles

“This is the metabolic mechanism of high fructose corn syrup, which is now used in everything.”

Why don’t the food police go after banning high fructise corn syrup the way they went after trans fats?


20 posted on 04/14/2009 12:22:37 PM PDT by IWONDR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: knarf
I'm 60 and can promise you that it is not metabolic or genetic (well maybe to some degree).

I have a heart rate monitor (Wall-Mart now sells them cheaply) and wear it when I bike, walk, or do anything like exercise and it has helped me retrain my thinking about exercise.

Yard work and house work can be great forms of exercise if you keep your heart rate high.

I use to be a running nut and was always very skinny. Due to foot injuries, I now ride an old beat up mountain bike. It is hard to get skinny no matter how much I ride, but dieting helps.

21 posted on 04/14/2009 12:22:43 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

I understand this. Not only did I not watch my fat, but my carb intake was higher than it should, due to a gastritis problem, and carbs were just easier on the tummy.

So now I’m back to carbs in the am, and dinners consisting of 3to 4 oz protein with a salad or veggie.


22 posted on 04/14/2009 12:22:46 PM PDT by hoe_cake (" 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: mplsconservative

well, you know, bacon is good stuff. we need some fat in our diet...for our skin, our hair, etc. Women especially who cut out all fat are making a serious mistake.


23 posted on 04/14/2009 12:24:08 PM PDT by hoe_cake (" 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: mplsconservative
Recently reported here at FR...bacon cures hangovers
24 posted on 04/14/2009 12:25:35 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: hoe_cake

Oh no. I’m not giving up my fat. :) In fact, I’m embarrassed at how much butter we go through in a week. I bake a lot of cookies for my son and his friends, so that is my excuse.


25 posted on 04/14/2009 12:26:48 PM PDT by mplsconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

Whoa. I guess I’ll have a margarita with my bacon. Oh happy morning, LOL!


26 posted on 04/14/2009 12:28:00 PM PDT by mplsconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies
I bookmarked the Crossfit site and This guy has the shape I've become

I used to be a skinny guy, but I had a career change about 8 years ago (from construction to big truck driver) and my wife went home 4 1/2 years ago.

Both, I know, are elemental in the physical activity (or lack) I experience.

When I drive, I drink coffee and snack on carrots, cukes, etc (I'm going to change my name to Harvey)

27 posted on 04/14/2009 12:29:26 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: mplsconservative; hoe_cake
every morning, i eat 2 or 3 strips of turkey bacon along with 3 egg whites with 1 yoke on a weight watchers whole wheat pita.

don't eat regular bacon. maybe as a treat on sunday's.

i drink unsweetened vanilla almond milk. i blend some frozen fruit in to give it some flavor.

70-80% of fitness results is diet. seriously. eat well 6 days, and on the 7th day, eat what you want.

work out. i do it 6 days a week for an hour on average. more in the summer. just make it fun so you'll stick with it.

28 posted on 04/14/2009 12:31:31 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: mplsconservative

i’m going on a tropical vacation next week. you can bet that will be my breakfast! ha!


29 posted on 04/14/2009 12:33:50 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: knarf
OK ... so how do I get rid of the belly and side fat?

The answer to this question is deceptively simple. So simple in fact that billions of dollars are spent every year in this country trying to exploit the difficulty people have in accepting the correct answer.

The correct answer is: Consume fewer calories than you expend.

And exercise, while good for your heart and muscle tone, really doesn't help all that much with actual weight loss.

For example, jogging consumes about 413 calories per hour. A bean burrito has about 450 calories.

So, you can jog for an hour. Or you can skip the burrito. The effect is about the same.

30 posted on 04/14/2009 12:37:09 PM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: since1868

“Dr. Atkins wrote the same thing over 30 years ago.”

Correct.

Until I discovered Dr. Atkins many, many years ago, I had someone ask me: “How do you keep your weight down?”

My reply was: “I am hungry all the time.” It was a true statement on my part.

Thank God for Dr. Adkins. I have never felt hunger again.

On rare occasions I will eat my love...ice cream...or pecan pie topped with ice cream and whipped cream stacked a mile high when I go out to eat which is only about twice a month.


31 posted on 04/14/2009 12:38:49 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

ping


32 posted on 04/14/2009 12:47:12 PM PDT by Tahoe3002 (Politicians = Proof Positive that Crime does Pay.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: knarf
The guy in the video is Coach Glassman, the guy who developed Crossfit. He's not that old 50-60ish and I wonder if he actually applies to himself what he recommends to others.

Sounds like your diet is great...I also love rabbit food.

With regard to exercise, an old coach of mine told me that persistence is everything. The nice thing about being older is you'er not so much in a hurry. If you just do one push up a day and increase by adding one a week, within a year you would be doing 52 a day. The key to exercise is always adding on a little more time and variety of exercise and slowly build intensity.

No matter what you do exercise-wise, it changes your brain chemistry for the better and eventually become addictive (in a very nice way).

Best of luck with your program.

33 posted on 04/14/2009 12:48:34 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: thefactor

I don’t watch what I eat, but then I don’t eat much. It’s a hereditary thing, I think.

I always accused my mom of eating like a bird, just a peck here and there. Now my son accuses me of the same thing. I wouldn’t turn down some bacon and fresh, crispy hashbrowns though. :)

Housework, walking the dogs and gardening are my exercise. We’ve got some neat woods and farm fields around our house so it’s fun to go out and explore.


34 posted on 04/14/2009 12:58:03 PM PDT by mplsconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: thefactor

Have a wonderful time on your tropical vacation! That sounds so great. I’m celebrating 60 degrees here in Minnesota. It feels like Hawaii. :)


35 posted on 04/14/2009 1:01:18 PM PDT by mplsconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

Bump to find later


36 posted on 04/14/2009 1:04:34 PM PDT by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mister Muggles
This is the metabolic mechanism of high fructose corn syrup, which is now used in everything

Please expound on this unique metabolic mechanism and how it differs from any other carbohydrate like, say, sugar (sucrose).

37 posted on 04/14/2009 2:15:06 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SonOfDarkSkies

I was quite overweight for about one year. Stress in life had led me to eat more than usual, and I continued the trend.

The single most important thing that helped me lose 50 lbs. within the space of 5 months was WRITING DOWN MY CALORIC INTAKE EVERY DAY.

I wasn’t paying attention to just how much I was putting in my stomach. When you see the totals at the end of the day, it’s incentive to control your intake, and it’s empowering to keep track of what you eat.

I didn’t need any fancy diet plan, books, or weight loss program. Just write the numbers down, and shoot for reducing your intake to 2000 calories or less.

Yea, you get hungry, but just look at the list. It helps.


38 posted on 04/14/2009 4:35:27 PM PDT by ggrrrrr23456
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ggrrrrr23456
Excellent point!

There are a million ideas that help.

Keep working on it...and good luck!

39 posted on 04/14/2009 4:38:16 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Coleus; AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...

[snip] Some people find that once they start eating bread, cookies, chocolate, potato chips — or leftover Easter candy — they lose all sense of fullness and find it difficult to stop. ... After 23 years of treating patients — some of it espousing liquid diets — Dr. Aronne has concluded that refined carbohydrates and foods with high sugar and fat content promote what he calls “fullness resistance.” [end]

-and-

Metairie man says stranger chewed, swallowed after taking bite out of his arm
Nola.com | 04-07-2009 | Michelle Hunter
Posted on 04/14/2009 9:35:04 AM PDT by Ellendra
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2228873/posts


40 posted on 04/14/2009 7:30:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Knitebane
I am nobody and my opinion means nothing but it is simple isn't it? Sweat from physical exertion, don't eat everything all the time and sleep, or die. The occasional physical wouldn't hurt either.
41 posted on 04/15/2009 9:01:53 AM PDT by VaRepublican (I would propagate taglines but I don't know how.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Mase
Please expound on this unique metabolic mechanism and how it differs from any other carbohydrate like, say, sugar (sucrose).

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, November 2002 Vol. 76, No. 5, 911-92

"Glucose is metabolized in every cell in the body but all fructose must be metabolized in the liver.6 The livers of test animals fed large amounts of fructose develop fatty deposits and cirrhosis, similar to problems that develop in the livers of alcoholics."

Fructose is No Answer For a Sweetener

"Pure fructose contains no enzymes, vitamins or minerals and robs the body of its micronutrient treasures in order to assimilate itself for physiological use. While naturally occurring sugars, as well as sucrose, contain fructose bound to other sugars, high fructose corn syrup contains a good deal of "free" or unbound fructose. Research indicates that this free fructose interferes with the heart’s use of key minerals like magnesium, copper and chromium. Among other consequences, HFCS has been implicated in elevated blood cholesterol levels and the creation of blood clots. It has been found to inhibit the action of white blood cells so that they are unable to defend the body against harmful foreign invaders."

42 posted on 04/15/2009 9:24:46 AM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Knitebane
Glucose is metabolized in every cell in the body but all fructose must be metabolized in the liver.

Yes, fructose is converted by the liver into glucose. We've known this for a long, long time.

The livers of test animals fed large amounts of fructose develop fatty deposits and cirrhosis, similar to problems that develop in the livers of alcoholics."

Cramming lab rats full of chemicals that has absolutely no relationship to real world consumption by humans will cause all sorts of maladies to occur within the animal. Humans, on average, derive less than 8% of their total calories from fructose. No human consumes straight fructose. So how is it relevant that a lab rat is fed 25%, or more, of its total calories from straight fructose?

Pure fructose contains no enzymes

Why would this matter? Your body produces all the enzymes it needs.

vitamins or minerals and robs the body of its micronutrient treasures in order to assimilate itself for physiological use

Micronutrient treasures robbed? LOL! That's loopy. Why should HFCS, or sugar for that matter, supply vitamins and minerals?

While naturally occurring sugars, as well as sucrose, contain fructose bound to other sugars, high fructose corn syrup contains a good deal of "free" or unbound fructose.

A "good deal" of "free or unbound fructose?" All of the fructose in HFCS is free/unbound.

Research indicates that this free fructose interferes with the heart’s use of key minerals like magnesium, copper and chromium.

This is more nonsense. Sugar (sucrose) is hydrolyzed in the gut into free fructose and glucose. If HFCS causes this to happen (it doesn't) then so does sugar (sucrose). Both sucrose and HFCS are made up of the same two chemicals (fructose and glucose) so how can one interfere with your heart while the other does not?

Among other consequences, HFCS has been implicated in elevated blood cholesterol levels and the creation of blood clots. It has been found to inhibit the action of white blood cells so that they are unable to defend the body against harmful foreign invaders."

This is nutty but if it were true you'd have to say the same thing about regular old table sugar.

I found this from the link you provided:

Most corn syrup is 97% glucose yet this wacky website wants you to believe that corn syrup is made from fructose. If they can't even get this simple fact right how much of what they write is also suspect? I'd say most of it. There is a lot of misinformation on the internet and you've found some of it.

As for HFCS having a "unique metabolic mechanism that differes from other carbohydrates....."

Sugars and satiety: does the type of sweetener make a difference?

HFCS and sugar have similar metabolic mechanisms (April 7, 2006)

At this time, there is no scientific evidence to suggest that humans utilize either HFCS-42 or HFCS-55 any differently than sucrose, invert sugar, or honey. All disaccharides are completely hydrolyzed in the gastrointestinal tract into their simple sugar (monosaccharide) components prior to absorption. In order to hydrolyze sucrose into fructose and glucose, the small intestine secretes an enzyme known as sucrase, which is abundant and not rate -limiting. Consequently, the rate of absorption for the monosaccharide components of sucrose and HFCS is likely to be equal in both speed and completeness.

Fructose and glucose are absorbed and metabolized differently by the human body.10,11 However, fructose is fructose and glucose is glucose regardless of the source-HFCS, sucrose, invert sugar, or honey. In other words, after hydrolysis in the gut, the monosaccharides derived from these sweeteners are physiologically indistinguishable to the human body.

From: Nutrition Today: Volume 40(6) November/December 2005 pp 253-256 by: Gayle L. Hein, BS, and Maureen L. Storey, PhD, Center for Food, Nutrition, and Agriculture Policy, University of Maryland-College Park, College Park, MD (previously at Center for Food and Nutrition Policy, Virginia Tech-National Capital Region, Alexandria, VA). John S. White, PhD, White Technical Research, Argenta, IL. David R. Lineback, PhD, University of Maryland/US Food and Drug Administration, Joint Institute for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, College Park, MD. Corresponding author: Maureen L. Storey, PhD, Center for Food, Nutrition, and Agriculture Policy, University of Maryland-College Park, 1122 Patapsco Building, College Park, MD 20742 (e-mail: storey@umd.edu).

It's a subscription site so I am unable to link you to it.

43 posted on 04/15/2009 4:01:09 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Mase
Yes, fructose is converted by the liver into glucose. We've known this for a long, long time.

Then why did you ask if you already new the answer?

Your body processes fructose differently. I think that the jury is still out on whether it is actually harmful, but there is no argument, not even from you, on whether the human body has to work differently to process fructose.

44 posted on 04/16/2009 9:30:42 AM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Knitebane
Then why did you ask if you already new the answer?

Another poster said: “Some people find that once they start eating bread, cookies, chocolate, potato chips — or leftover Easter candy — they lose all sense of fullness and find it difficult to stop.”

The poster I replied to responded by saying this: "This is the metabolic mechanism of high fructose corn syrup, which is now used in everything."

I asked him to expound on the "metabolic mechanism" in HFCS that supposedly makes people lose all sense of fullness thereby preventing them from being able to stop eating. He couldn't so you linked me to some wacky website that still doesn't answer the question.

Now, are you trying to tell me that because fructose is converted into glucose by the liver that it causes people to lose control of their ability to manage their caloric intake? Is that an argument you really want to make?

People get fat because they eat more than they burn. Overeating is a learned behavior and has nothing to do with evil chemicals or food ingredients. Obese people may want to blame it on something other than overeating but that nonsense cannot be supported.

Your body processes fructose differently.

Differently than what: Galactose? Starch? Lactose? Glucose?

So what? Your liver converts fructose to glucose and it all ends up in the Krebs cycle at the same level.

I think that the jury is still out on whether it is actually harmful

Based on what, some wacky website that doesn't even understand that corn syrup is made up of glucose and not fructose? If fructose is harmful then you have to believe that fruit, fruit juice, honey and regular old table sugar are also harmful. Is that what you believe? Eating too much of anything can be bad for you. People die from drinking too much water.

but there is no argument, not even from you, on whether the human body has to work differently to process fructose.

Why is this bad? Can you also defend the statement that HFCS causes people to lose all sense of fullness and that they become unable to stop consuming food?

45 posted on 04/16/2009 10:58:02 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Mase
Now, are you trying to tell me that because fructose is converted into glucose by the liver that it causes people to lose control of their ability to manage their caloric intake? Is that an argument you really want to make?

What I'm telling you is that fructose is metabolized in a different manner than glucose or sucrose and as such, some people have difficulty in maintaining a proper blood sugar level.

The point is that many food product manufacturers went about replacing sucrose with fructose as if it were exactly the same thing. It isn't.

People get fat because they eat more than they burn.

Absolutely

Overeating is a learned behavior and has nothing to do with evil chemicals or food ingredients. Obese people may want to blame it on something other than overeating but that nonsense cannot be supported.

And now you had to go and say something dumb.

Different sugars are processed differently by the body. The amount of that difference varies from person to person. To say in a general statement that the only reason people are obese is because they eat too much is just dumb. Granted, for many people, the way the body converts fructose versus sucrose makes a negligible difference. But for others, the difference between the body's reaction to consuming fructose and sucrose can cause all manner of difficulty.

So what? Your liver converts fructose to glucose and it all ends up in the Krebs cycle at the same level.

Yes and if I pee in your soup it's all going to end up with you peeing the liquid out.

Why is this bad? Can you also defend the statement that HFCS causes people to lose all sense of fullness and that they become unable to stop consuming food?

Well, how about this statement:

"Both plasma insulin and leptin act in the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy homeostasis. Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic ß cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate. Because leptin production is regulated by insulin responses to meals, fructose consumption also reduces circulating leptin concentrations. The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models."

So, unless you want to claim that the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition is just another "wacky website" you might want to tone down your attitude and do some reading.

This isn't some conspiracy theory. My wife had the darndest time losing weight, even on an 800 calorie a day diet. She ended up in a study at Duke University Medical Center and was diagnosed by their team of endocrinologists as insulin resistant.

By eliminating all most complex carbohydrates and returning to a diet in meats, vegetables and simple sugars she lost 110 lbs.

So who am I going to believe, you, or my lying eyes, Duke University Medical Center and the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition?

46 posted on 04/16/2009 11:37:52 AM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Knitebane
What I'm telling you is that fructose is metabolized in a different manner than glucose or sucrose and as such, some people have difficulty in maintaining a proper blood sugar level.

If you don't even know that 50% of sucrose is made from fructose then it will be impossible for you to understand that a healthy body should have no problems maintaining a proper blood sugar level. To really understand nutrition and physiology you have to have some knowledge of it.

The point is that many food product manufacturers went about replacing sucrose with fructose as if it were exactly the same thing. It isn't.

You're embarrassing yourself. Sucrose is made up of two chemicals (glucose and fructose) in equal proportions (50% each). High fructose corn syrup is commercialized in two forms. One is 42% fructose and 58% glucose while the other is 55% fructose and 45% glucose. When food manufacturers replaced sucrose (table sugar) with high fructose corn syrup, they didn't change the two chemicals you consume. They are essentially the same thing and your body cannot distinguish between fructose and glucose from HFCS and fructose and glucose from sucrose. I can't make it any simpler than that.

Different sugars are processed differently by the body.

So what? They're all carbohydrates and offer 4 calories per gram. Why is that scary?

The amount of that difference varies from person to person.

Huh? Some people get more than 4 calories per gram from the same carb and some get less? What do you mean by this? Do you even know?

To say in a general statement that the only reason people are obese is because they eat too much is just dumb.

Really? Then explain to me how burning more calories than you consume will cause you to gain weight. You could become the first person to disprove the first law of thermodynamics.

Granted, for many people, the way the body converts fructose versus sucrose makes a negligible difference. But for others, the difference between the body's reaction to consuming fructose and sucrose can cause all manner of difficulty.

You don't even know that sucrose is comprised of fructose and you want me to believe you when you say that consuming fructose (and sucrose LOL!) can cause all sorts of difficulties. I am noting here that you've said nothing thus far about people who may suffer from fructose intolerance.

Yes and if I pee in your soup it's all going to end up with you peeing the liquid out.

You think it's immaterial that glucose and fructose both end up in the Krebs cycle as 3x2 carbon fragments? Did you struggle in school with biology and chemistry?

So, unless you want to claim that the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition is just another "wacky website" you might want to tone down your attitude and do some reading.

If I thought you had any understanding of the abstract you linked I'd be happy to go into detail as to why this research does not support your suggestions.

"Both plasma insulin and leptin act in the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy homeostasis. Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic ß cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate.”

As long as it is fructose it doesn’t stimulate insulin. This statement, however, is highly biased since fructose is quickly converted into glucose by the liver which then stimulates the release of insulin. This is agenda driven research designed to influence the reader into a desired conclusion.

Because leptin production is regulated by insulin responses to meals, fructose consumption also reduces circulating leptin concentrations. The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models."

In animal models? How much of their diet consisted of fructose? Does this reflect similar consumption by the average human? Were the lab animals fed straight fructose or fructose in combination with glucose? You can create all kinds of desired results by managing the intake. Would a researcher be more interested in obtaining grant money than reporting the truth? Naw, that never happens. How would you even know? Tell us about all the time you spent in research focused on food ingredients.

HFCS and sugar have similar metabolic mechanisms (Friday, April 07, 2006)

So, unless you want to claim that the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition is just another "wacky website" you might want to tone down your attitude and do some reading

Thanks but I’ve done plenty of reading over the years and understand that the linked research you cite doesn’t prove what you think it does. Now, maybe you could cut and paste the part of the study that proves the "metabolic mechanism" in HFCS makes people lose all sense of fullness thereby preventing them from being able to stop eating. At least your most recent citation will understand that corn syrup is made up mostly of glucose, not fructose. It’s pretty basic stuff really. How long did you have to Google to find this report? Do you still think that fruit, fruit juice, honey and table sugar are dangerous substances that should be avoided? At some point you need to realize that too much of anything can be bad for you – especially if you’re a lab rat in an experiment being conducted by someone desperate for more grant money.

My wife had the darndest time losing weight, even on an 800 calorie a day diet.

I don’t know her metabolic rate or what her diet consisted of but I think you need at least that amount of calories a day just to maintain body heat. She must have been highly lethargic.

By eliminating all most complex carbohydrates and returning to a diet in meats, vegetables and simple sugars she lost 110 lbs.

Simple carbs resulted in weight loss and no insulin resistance while complex carbs caused insulin resistance and weight gain? People wanting a catabolic diet will prefer complex carbs from vegetables that burn more calories than they offer. Vegetables high in fiber (most vegetables) are good for this. Why she could lose weight eating protein and simple carbs but not protein and complex carbs is a mystery. Of course, I don’t know what she was consuming when she subsisted on 800 calories a day. There’s something not right about your story but at least she’s much healthier now than before.

I’m surprised Duke Medical told you it was fructose that caused her insulin resistance rather than her obesity and sedentary lifestyle. Is that what they told you? I ask only because it seems to be what you’re implying.

So who am I going to believe, you, or my lying eyes, Duke University Medical Center and the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition?

You don’t even understand that sucrose is half fructose so I’d be surprised if you understood much of what the folks over at Duke Medical told you. And I know for a fact that you don’t understand the research you Googled from the AJCN this time around. But that’s neither here nor there. The bottom line is that HFCS and sugar (sucrose) are made up of the same two chemicals, in almost identical proportions, and to your body the source of those chemicals is indistinguishable and unimportant. Eating HFCS instead of sucrose doesn’t stymie any satiation mechanisms and does not cause people to keep stuffing their faces.

47 posted on 04/16/2009 4:03:57 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Mase

Look at me, I turn into butter in your body and I hypnotize you to force you to continue eating.

48 posted on 04/16/2009 5:21:10 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Mase
You don’t even understand that sucrose is half fructose so I’d be surprised if you understood much of what the folks over at Duke Medical told you.

Statements like this just show that your a jerk.

Even if any of your deranged rantings are accurate, your snottiness negates any point you may possibly have.

You are a boorish twit.

49 posted on 04/16/2009 9:09:17 PM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Knitebane
So, I'm guessing that the staff at Duke Medical didn't tell you it was fructose that caused your wife's problems like you suggested. Why then did you make such an implication? Were you being intentionally deceptive or did you not understand what they were telling you? Given your comments on the thread it's a fair question.

When someone refutes your misunderstandings with factual information and you refer to it as "deranged ranting" (LOL!) and call them "dumb" and "a jerk" it simply tells us that you really didn't know what you were talking about in the first place and that you need to grow some skin. When my kids feign outrage because they're embarrassed or hurt I offer them a lollipop or a cookie to make them feel better. Which would you prefer? They both probably have some fructose in them though. How about a hug instead?

50 posted on 04/17/2009 6:58:23 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-56 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson