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Space Explosion Is Farthest Thing Ever Seen (gamma-ray burst about 13 billion light-years away)
Space.com on Yahoo ^ | 4/28/09

Posted on 04/28/2009 8:54:57 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

A stellar explosion has smashed the record for most distant object in the known universe.

The gamma-ray burst came from about 13 billion light-years away, and represents a relic from when the universe was just 630 million years old.

"It easily surpassed the most distant galaxies and quasars," said Edo Berger, an astrophysicist at Harvard University and a leading member of the team that first demonstrated the burst's origin. "In fact, it showed that we can use these spectacular events to pinpoint the first generation of stars and galaxies."

"The burst most likely arose from the explosion of a massive star," said Derek Fox, an astrophysicist at Penn State University. "We're seeing the demise of a star — and probably the birth of a black hole — in one of the universe's earliest stellar generations."

Gamma-ray bursts mark the dying explosion of large stars that have run out of fuel. The collapsing star cores form either black holes or neutron stars that create an intense burst of high-energy gamma-rays and form some of the brightest explosions in the early universe.

A light-year is the distance that light can travel in a year, or about 6 trillion miles (10 trillion kilometers). So astronomers are seeing this particular burst as it existed 13 billion years ago, because the light took that long to reach Earth observers.

NASA's Swift satellite first detected the ten-second-long gamma-ray burst in the early morning on April 23, and quickly swung about to point its Ultraviolet/Optical and X-Ray telescopes.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Chit/Chat; Science
KEYWORDS: burst; catastrophism; electricuniverse; explosion; farthest; gammaray; grb; haltonarp; space; stringtheory; xplanets
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1 posted on 04/28/2009 8:54:57 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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Once a gamma-ray burst is detected from space, other telescopes take a look. Here, the fading infrared afterglow of GRB 090423 appears in the center of this false-color image taken with the Gemini North Telescope in Hawaii. The burst is the farthest cosmic explosion yet seen. Credit: Gemini Observatory/NSF/AURA, D. Fox and A. Cucchiara (Penn State Univ.) and E. Berger (Harvard Univ.)


2 posted on 04/28/2009 8:56:35 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: NormsRevenge
The gamma-ray burst came from about 13 billion light-years away, and represents a relic from when the universe was just 630 million years old.

I suppose this could be accurate, but I find it surprising. It seems almost like watching the Big Bang occur.

3 posted on 04/28/2009 8:57:51 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (American Revolution II -- overdue)
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To: NormsRevenge

How was it determined that this was “about 13 billion light-years away”?


4 posted on 04/28/2009 8:58:01 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_shift


5 posted on 04/28/2009 8:59:44 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: NormsRevenge
"Yeah, and that'll lead you to another clue. And that's all you'll ever find, is another clue."


6 posted on 04/28/2009 9:09:47 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: ClearCase_guy
a relic from when the universe was just 630 million years old.

No pictures of you-know-who!

7 posted on 04/28/2009 9:11:06 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: NormsRevenge
"So astronomers are seeing this particular burst as it existed 13 billion years ago, because the light took that long to reach Earth observers."

Ummmm....I don't get it. If this is right, we are assuming that the universe was as large (the expansion from 13 billion years) as it is today.

8 posted on 04/28/2009 9:13:17 AM PDT by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: NormsRevenge

Can someone explain to this layman how a start can form and explode within 630million years, while our star has existed for at least 4.5 billion years?


9 posted on 04/28/2009 9:14:31 AM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: thefrankbaum

start=star


10 posted on 04/28/2009 9:14:51 AM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: DuncanWaring
Obviously long baseline interferometry is inadequate in such a task so they were undoubtedly reduced to counting bars in the spectrum to see where helium, e.t. al were at.

Whether or not you agree with the appellation of "light years" this is the result you get when you use that method.

It's a long way away, Fur Shur. "Over yonder" if you catch my drift.

11 posted on 04/28/2009 9:15:59 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: thefrankbaum

Different star, different mass, different gravity ~ happens all the time.


12 posted on 04/28/2009 9:16:42 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DuncanWaring
How was it determined that this was “about 13 billion light-years away”?

Simple.


13 posted on 04/28/2009 9:19:05 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union, then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
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To: mosaicwolf
Not eactly. This is telling you what it was like 13 billion years ago. We were much closer then. Of course we were also part of a dust cloud and only later were compressed into atoms by red giants and then exploded out to reform as the chunks of stuff that collided together to form this (or another) planet.

We've been exploding outward with the expansion of the Universe, so that explosion of 13 billion years ago was, it turns out, lagging behind us a bit.

14 posted on 04/28/2009 9:19:10 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lazamataz; DuncanWaring

The one with the extra long tape.


15 posted on 04/28/2009 9:19:48 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: thefrankbaum
Can someone explain to this layman how a start can form and explode within 630million years, while our star has existed for at least 4.5 billion years?

Because our star slept in a Holiday Inn last night.

16 posted on 04/28/2009 9:20:29 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union, then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
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To: mosaicwolf; thefrankbaum; NormsRevenge; Fred Nerks

All of this distance hoopla is based on the red shift...but that is now in serious question by a Scientist who was an associate of Hubble...we had a thread on that....will see if I can find it.


17 posted on 04/28/2009 9:21:59 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: thefrankbaum
Can someone explain to this layman how a start can form and explode within 630million years, while our star has existed for at least 4.5 billion years?

Hypergiant stars (100+ solar masses) have incredibly short lifespans (1 million years) compared to main sequence (our sun .. 1 solar mass and 10 billion years).

18 posted on 04/28/2009 9:22:06 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (We either Free America ourselves, or it is midnight for humanity for a thousand years.)
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To: DuncanWaring

This has always made me wonder....

If this light was emitted 13 billion years ago,
And our galaxy probably did not even exist at that time,
And the universe had not expanded to the current region of our galaxy yet,
And this light has traveled 13 billion light years to get here,
How did the matter that makes up our galaxy out-run this light so that we could be here when the light eventually arrived 13 billion years later?

hmmmm... I must be dumb.


19 posted on 04/28/2009 9:25:18 AM PDT by DigitalVideoDude (It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit. -Ronald Reagan)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Good pictures on this thread:

Trio of Galaxies Play Tug of War

.

20 posted on 04/28/2009 9:31:49 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: thefrankbaum

Stars are a delicate balance of elements.


21 posted on 04/28/2009 9:35:30 AM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; NormsRevenge; NYer
Another thread:

'Crown of Thorns' Galaxy Photographed in Space

******************************EXCERPT**********************************

NGC 7049 has far fewer such clusters than other similar giant galaxies in very big, rich groups. This indicates to astronomers how the surrounding environment influenced the formation of galaxy halos in the early universe.

22 posted on 04/28/2009 9:37:49 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: DigitalVideoDude

I’m just marking this thread in hopes of seeing an answer to your question.


23 posted on 04/28/2009 9:41:54 AM PDT by American_Centurion (No, I don't trust the government to automatically do the right thing.)
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To: mosaicwolf; mnehring; thefrankbaum; NormsRevenge; Fred Nerks
Well here is the astronomer:

Halton Christian Arp

*******************************EXCERPT***************************

Working in these observatories he has made becoming classical "the Catalogue of Peculiar Galaxies" ("Arp's Catalogue" or "Atlas of Peculiar Galaxies of Arp"), where information on galaxies distinguished in "abnormality" that is diversion from usual spiral structure are gathered. In notations and references these galaxies have name of Arp + catalogue number.

At the begining of the scientific activity Dr. Arp was engaged in search of novae in М31 under leading of Edwin Hubble.

In 1983 he was invited to staff of Max Planck Astrophysical institute in Munich.

*********************************EXCERPT***************************************

One of major astronomical discovery of Dr. Arp is that the quasars or, in another words, quasi-stellar objects (QSO) are local objects ejected from the core of active galactic nuclei (AGN). The theory was originally proposed in the 1960s as an alternative to Maarten Schmidt's explanation for QSOs, which stated that they were very distant galaxies that appeared to be highly redshifted because of the expansion of the universe [1]. The implication of the hypothesis was that most of the observed redshift of these QSOs must have a non-cosmological or "intrinsic" origin. Arp has suggested that the QSO emission may instead be ejecta from active galactic nuclei. Nearby galaxies with both strong radio emission and peculiar morphologies, particularly M87 and Centaurus A, appeared to support Arp's hypothesis [2]. In his books, Arp has provided his reasons for believing that the Big Bang theory itself is wrong, citing his research into QSOs. Instead, Arp supports the redshift quantization theory for describing the redshifts of galaxies [3].

Since Arp originally proposed his theories in the 1960s, however, telescopes and astronomical instrumentation have advanced greatly; the Hubble Space Telescope was launched, multiple 8-10 meter telescopes (such as those at Keck Observatory) have become operational, and detectors such as CCDs are now more widely used. These new telescopes and new instrumentation have been used to examine QSOs further. QSOs are now generally accepted to be very distant galaxies with high redshifts. Moreover, many objects that are high-redshift counterparts to normal nearby galaxies have been identified in many imaging surveys, most notably the Hubble Deep Field[4]. Moreover, the spectra of the high-redshift galaxies, as seen from X-ray to radio wavelengths, match the spectra of nearby galaxies (particularly galaxies with high levels of star formation activity but also galaxies with normal or extinguished star formation activity) when corrected for redshift effects.[5 - 7]

Nonetheless, Arp has not wavered from his stand against the Big Bang and still publishes articles stating his contrary view in both popular and scientific literature, frequently collaborating with Geoffrey Burbidge and Margaret Burbidge.[8]

24 posted on 04/28/2009 9:44:59 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: American_Centurion; DigitalVideoDude

See #24...


25 posted on 04/28/2009 9:46:11 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: DuncanWaring

See #24.


26 posted on 04/28/2009 9:47:53 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Basically the answer is that likely there is no need to infer ‘Dark energy’ or ‘dark matter’ because the big bang theory is wrong. Am I right?

So what prevailing theory best explains these high redshift QSOs?


27 posted on 04/28/2009 9:52:24 AM PDT by American_Centurion (No, I don't trust the government to automatically do the right thing.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; LibWhacker
Another mystery:

New Exotic Particle May Explain Milky Way Gamma-Ray Phenomenon

28 posted on 04/28/2009 9:53:08 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: American_Centurion
Working on finding the thread...getting closer...:

News and Views on The Electric Universe

29 posted on 04/28/2009 9:55:59 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: thefrankbaum

Layman to layman... the larger the star the greater the gravitational force and the greater the reaction rate. They live a shorter, bright and active life...


30 posted on 04/28/2009 9:57:05 AM PDT by El Laton Caliente (NRA Life Member & www.Gunsnet.net Moderator)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Related:

NASA Pseudo-skeptic Receives Rebuttal from Electric Universe Theorist

**************************************EXCERPT******************************

# When confronted with =in your face evidence' such as the image of a high redshifted QSO in front of a more distant, low redshifted galaxy, they resort to arguments (usually involving math or statistics) to disprove – or at least make you doubt – what your eyes are telling you. The old Groucho Marx line comes to mind: “Who you gonna believe? Me? Or your lying eyes?”

31 posted on 04/28/2009 10:00:50 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: NormsRevenge

Bookmark


32 posted on 04/28/2009 10:01:12 AM PDT by dragnet2
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

bump


33 posted on 04/28/2009 10:03:23 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (We either Free America ourselves, or it is midnight for humanity for a thousand years.)
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To: AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; Las Vegas Dave; ...

· Google ·

34 posted on 04/28/2009 10:15:07 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: KevinDavis; annie laurie; garbageseeker; Knitting A Conundrum; Viking2002; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ...
 
X-Planets
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·
Google news searches: exoplanet · exosolar · extrasolar ·

35 posted on 04/28/2009 10:15:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: 75thOVI; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BBell; ...
One of those rare hat-trick topics...
 
Catastrophism
 
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

36 posted on 04/28/2009 10:15:59 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: American_Centurion
"I’m just marking this thread in hopes of seeing an answer to your question. "

Me too! ;-)

37 posted on 04/28/2009 10:21:48 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: DuncanWaring; Lancey Howard; NormsRevenge; SunkenCiv; Fred Nerks
Alternate theories in Astronomy:

Welcome to the Electric Universe

38 posted on 04/28/2009 11:04:48 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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Welcome, dear visitor

The four forces of physics,

Two of these four forces act in the atomic core. One of them UNIFIES and holds matter together in the core (e.g. via fusion), the other force SEPARATES parts of the atomic core. It produces the radioactivity of e.g. uranium and thorium (table). The other two forces of these four forces act in the infinite space. One of them - gravity - UNIFIES and holds matter together e.g. it forms stars from huge clouds. It holds together stars, solar systems, binary stars, galaxies, clusters. The other force - the electric force - SEPARATES matter of celestial bodies and repulses winds, loops, flares and light years-long jets. The electrically ejected matter is formed to filaments via pinch effect. (see jets of Crab pulsar)

39 posted on 04/28/2009 11:06:37 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: All; American_Centurion; DigitalVideoDude; dragnet2; Hatteras
Excerpts from Bio:

Arp, Halton Christian (1927-

*************************

He is working with other astronomers on the question whether the red shifts in the spectrum of quasars are due to the general expansion of the universe.

*************************************

I.E.....that the red shift in the spectra actually DOES NOT Mean Emitting object is FAR AWAY>>>

40 posted on 04/28/2009 11:13:46 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Yeah... I understand that some do not go with the FAR AWAY theory.

But many do believe this and I wonder how they would answer my question.

41 posted on 04/28/2009 11:37:39 AM PDT by DigitalVideoDude (It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit. -Ronald Reagan)
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To: All
The Electric Sky

*********

A Challenge to the Myths of Modern Astronomy

42 posted on 04/28/2009 11:41:23 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: All
more:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/

“From the smallest particle to the largest galactic formation, a web of electrical circuitry connects and unifies all of nature, organizing galaxies, energizing stars, giving birth to planets and, on our own world, controlling weather and animating biological organisms. There are no isolated islands in an electric universe”.

 
David Talbott and Wallace Thornhill
Thunderbolts of the Gods

43 posted on 04/28/2009 12:03:20 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Lazamataz

The measuring technique is in serious doubt...


44 posted on 04/28/2009 12:04:24 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: All; Fred Nerks
Found the threads...

Giant solar waves spew more energy than 10 bn atom bombs

and

Giant Solar Twists Discovered

NOw check post #48...#50...#52...#53...

AND THIS #63.....

&**************************************************

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Oct 01, 2004 Quasar in Front of Galaxy

October 3, 2003: the big bang was proved wrong. Again. And here is the proof (image above). The galaxy, NGC 7319, is a Seyfert 2, which means it is a galaxy shrouded with such heavy dust clouds that they obscure most of the bright, active nucleus that defines a normal Seyfert galaxy. This galaxy has a redshift of 0.0225. The tiny white spot is a quasar either silhouetted in front of the opaque gas clouds or embedded in the topmost layers of the dust. The redshift of the quasar is 2.114.

Why does this prove the big bang wrong? One of the two major foundations of the big bang is that redshift is proportional to distance. That means the larger the redshift of an object, the farther away it must be. The other major foundation of the big bang is that all redshift is a measure of velocity. Again, the larger the redshift of an object, the faster it is moving away from us. Combined, these two foundations become the expanding universe, which can be traced backwards to the big bang.

Look at the picture again. By the big bang principles, this quasar must be billions of light years farther from us than the galaxy, because its redshift is so much larger. And yet the galaxy is opaque, so the quasar must be near the surface of the dust clouds or even in front of them.


63 posted on Sun 22 Mar 2009 01:24:24 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)

45 posted on 04/28/2009 12:40:27 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: NormsRevenge; SunkenCiv; Fred Nerks; American_Centurion; DigitalVideoDude; dragnet2; Hatteras; ...
Sorry it took so long....see #45 on this thread for the counterexample to the redshift theory....

Thanks Fred....

46 posted on 04/28/2009 12:44:02 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: DuncanWaring; ClearCase_guy; mnehring; Lancey Howard; agere_contra; mosaicwolf; thefrankbaum; ...
See #45....for counterexample to the Red Shift theory ...and it's corollary the Expanding Universe Theory
47 posted on 04/28/2009 12:59:03 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Look at the picture again. By the big bang principles, this quasar must be billions of light years farther from us than the galaxy, because its redshift is so much larger. And yet the galaxy is opaque, so the quasar must be near the surface of the dust clouds or even in front of them.

Actually not, if the dust clouds have a large enough gravitational field, you may be seeing stars behind the dust cloud, but the light is bent around the gravitational object.
We see this with stars and our Sun.

48 posted on 04/28/2009 1:06:12 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring

That would be pretty extreme bending...I didn’t think the effect was that strong....


49 posted on 04/28/2009 1:11:43 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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To: All
Resource:

Cosmic distance ladder

*******************************EXCERPT****************************

The cosmic distance ladder (also known as the Extragalactic Distance Scale) is the succession of methods by which astronomers determine the distances to celestial objects.

50 posted on 04/28/2009 1:19:06 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Support Geert Wilders)
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