Skip to comments.Former fundamentalist 'debunks' Bible
Posted on 05/15/2009 12:18:43 PM PDT by JoeProBono
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He was also lying.
Because that is the definition you were given.
As far as I can tell, Ehrman is right about that point. The earliest versions we have of the books of the Bible are very different from the versions we all read today.
At least 19 of the 27 books in the New Testament are forgeries.
Forgeries is a very strong word, stronger than I would choose. But the evidence is clear that these books have been significantly and substantially altered. Sometimes it was a transcription error; often it was insertion or deletion to fit a particular audience or a particular agenda.
“I thank the God that is that the God tehy told me about isn’t.” — Dr. Ernest Holmes.
Then YOU explain to me what Christianity is and why I should bother with it.
I think Ehrman is saying that even though his scholarship persuades him that much of the Bible isn’t literally true, there is still much wisdom in it and we can learn from it.
Do you believe Jesus is the only doorway to God, that no man cometh to the Father but by Him?
Do you believe there is in fact a communication that God desires with individual humans?
Do you believe that the God Who can create this complex and so very delicately balanced Universe (an accident so rare as to be a 1 in 10120 possibility) is able to have His communication conveyed through this Bible which Ehrman denegrates as 'man-made'?
Whom do you suppose is served by this not so subtle insult to God's integrity as the 'Jesus Seminar' (which is Ehrman supported as I understand it) conveys?
Actually, they're textual analysis, much of it comparison of the earliest versions of the texts to what they say now. then he analyses how the differences may have occurred.
You may not like his conclusions, but they're based on much more substance than "unsubstantiated speculations and wishful thinking."
I disagree with the author. It’s more than just lessons about right and wrong...much, much, more.
The New Testament is the foundation of today’s Christianity. Without it (no Messiah, no resurrection, etc.,) it’s all for nothing.
He says as much in the introduction to Misquoting Jesus.
Lying to the boyfriend that it occurred in his girlfriend. Not lying about the possibility of the event or his reference to it.
Yeah I think Moody still taught language back in those days. I came along later and got the teaching without language courses but learned it from guys who did. How this guy comes to the conclusions he comes to is beyond me.
are you serious?
If you’re asking me a question, I”m not sure what exactly you’re asking.
The last time through it for me I saw my pride. When God asks Job, "where were you when.." and details the challenges of creation through man and God's eyes.
Exploring "How would I have done this better than God?" is a very revealing exercise.
Do you believe there is in fact a communication that God desires with individual humans? Yes, a communication in which I engage on a daily basis through prayer, meditation, and otherpractices.
Do you believe that the God Who can create this complex and so very delicately balanced Universe (an accident so rare as to be a 1 in 10120 possibility) is able to have His communication conveyed through this Bible which Ehrman denegrates as 'man-made'? Yes, and through all of the Scriptures of the world. The problem isn't God's message; it's that it was put together by human beings with agendas and they may not have been the clearest channels for God's message. In addition, many of them had agendas of their own that got superimposed on the message.
Whom do you suppose is served by this not so subtle insult to God's integrity as the 'Jesus Seminar' (which is Ehrman supported as I understand it) conveys? Well, I don't regard it as an insult to God. I regard it as investigation and research. If you're basing your faith on Jesus and teh evidence shows that Jesus may have been distorted (or any of God's messengers, for that matter), wouldn't you want to know that so you could follow his teachings more clearly?
I will pray for your ‘kids’.
Yes, it’s a serious question. What was the language of Jesus?
Aramaic. And Love.
Yes, pride peeked his ugly head up in my situation, also. It’s a purging that needs to be done. But, then, again, I asked for it and said anything that is not of YOU - take it from me.! be careful and ready when you ask for something! :)
IOW, only those who agree with you are entitled to an opinion. Just the way the Obamaites think.
A religion is more than just this world, obviously, but if it can't hold up under logic and historical scholarship, then there is something flawed about it. You shouldn't be able to poke holes in it in these ways.
I’m still not sure what you’re point is, but I think it fundamentally is about what He did, and by that I mean dying on the cross for our sins and overcoming death. If it’s NOT about that, what do you think it’s about?
Jesus spoke Aramaic, but He didn’t write any of the Gospels, so why are you following this line of questioning? (not saying you shouldn’t but just get to your point!)
Excatly! So the sayings in Greek are already translations -- most likely including some translation errors, since the translating was done by human beings. Now, there ahve been a few scholars who understand Aramaic and tehy read many of the key verses a bit differently from the way they've been translated.
Unfortunately, the Bible as we have it, transcription errors and edits aside, is sort of a centuries-long game of telephone, the words of Jesus translated from Aramaic into Greek, then into other languages. Ours is second or third hand translation. This increases the likelihood of simple, innocnet translation errors. In addition, some idiomatic terms don't really translate well.
You are in great peril with your self-made religiosity which rejects Jesus' own teaching. You appear on the surface to be comfortable with your creation.
If you ever conclude that Jesus meant what He taught when He stated on more than one occasion that He was the Way, the Truth, and the Light, that no man cometh unto the Father but by Him', if/when you come to that conclusion, you will be at the beginning of His invitation to you individually ... and perhaps your ears will no longer itch.
It’s the teachings that matter most. He taught us about love and healing and living life abundantly.
By his crucifixion and resurrection, Jesus transcended death. he taught us eternality. Then he said, “The things that I have done ye also shall do and greater than these shall ye do.”
Do you believe He was literally physically resurrected?
Jesus taught that His message IS about Himself, and that allows us tosurmise that most if not all of what His disciples wrote of Him is reliably about His message and what He did.
he is quoted as saying that once. In Matthew, he says “You are teh light of the world.” But I guess Matthew doesn’t matter.
No, it's about God.
But you think that’s secondary to His teachings?
He IS God.
Is Jesus risen from the dead in body? ... If yes, then we have something over which to discuss other issues. If you do not believe that He is risen, bodily, then I bid you fiar winds and will say a prayer for your enlightenment.
And upon what accusation by the High Priest of the Sanhedrin was Jesus sent for crucifixion?
you're using logic and historical scholarship. That's not God's way.
IOW, if logic and historical scholarship don't back your position, just dismiss them (as liberals do all the time) as "not of God." ?Then you can be comfortable in continuing to hold your position with no examination whatsoever. IOW, as the liberals practice on a 24/7 basis, if the evidence doesn't support your opinion, then change the evidence. The try to delegitimize any other argument. Brilliant, excpet that it doesn't work.
I'm not a Christian evangelist, not my job.
I see Goerge Costanza finally got a real job.
Of course. It's all God. If God is infinite then God is everywhere, and if that's true, then one cannot be separate from God.
Or do you believe God to be limited? In whcih case, how can God be Omnipotent and Omniscient?
He as sent up for blasphemy — and being a threat to the Empier and teh Jewish religious establishment and to Herod.
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