Skip to comments.Farmer's son unearths medieval ring
Posted on 06/03/2009 10:17:01 AM PDT by BGHater
A medieval silver ring dating back more than 800 years has been unearthed on a farm in Northern Ireland.
The 12th century artefact was found by 17-year-old Conor Sandford as he was putting up a fence post at the edge of one of his father's fields near the village of Kilmore, Co Armagh.
The teenager told a treasure trove hearing in Belfast today he initially thought the engraved finger ring was a ring pull from an old fizzy drink can.
"Only when I was putting the soil back into the hole did I notice this wee thing sticking out," he said.
"You know I thought it was a ring pull, off a Coca Cola can."
The item was in fact a ring that experts at the Ulster Museum in Belfast have dated to circa 1170.
The Sandford farm lies on land adjoining Kilmore parish church - an area acknowledged by archaeologists as a significant medieval settlement.
After making the discovery last summer, Conor contacted Helen Geake from Channel Four's Time Team, who advised him to get in touch with the Ulster Museum.
Cormac Bourke, the museum's long standing curator of medieval antiquities, explained the ring would have belonged to someone of wealth.
"It must pertain to middle or upper echelons of society, but we can't say if it was owned by a man or a woman," he said during the hearing at Belfast's Mays Chambers
Such cases are held before the Coroners Court in Northern Ireland to determine whether the items are treasure and thus belong to the Crown.
In order to qualify for that status, the artefact has to be more than 300 years old and be 10% constituted of precious metal.
Conor Sandford (left) with Ulster museums curator Cormac Bourke
I knew I dropped it somewhere over there on my last visit to Ireland.
Belong to the Crown? What rubbish. People would be fools to reveal findings then.
IRS, same deal here. ‘reveal findings’.
I'm not a big fan of jewelry from the '70s...
Anything I dug up from my yard would be mine. Of course I wouldn't be broadcasting the find to the world.
> Belong to the Crown? What rubbish. People would be fools to reveal findings then.
I believe when the Crown claims such treasure, the finder gets paid as does the person whose land it was on. It’s not like they just take it without compensation. The artifact goes into a local museum, where it belongs.
I think that’s a great way to ensure that a Nation’s treasures don’t end up in some foreigner’s possession. Just because somebody “found” something doesn’t make it theirs — that’s an old Common Law principle.
LOL! I had one of those. Also had a puzzle ring.
> Anything I dug up from my yard would be mine.
In most Commonwealth countries, it actually wouldn’t. If you attempted to keep something you found, you could be charged with “Theft by Finding”, which is actually a fairly antient and serious crime. As it should be.
So glad I live in America. I own my land, and anything I find there is mine.
"Give us that, Deagol, my love..."
> So glad I live in America. I own my land, and anything I find there is mine.
I wonder if that’s actually as true as you think. If there were a seam of gold 250 feet beneath your house, I wonder if you would be allowed to mine it.
If I had to guess, I’d guess you wouldn’t be.
The IRS only gets what they have 1099 or W2 on. Otherwise, I guess it just doesnt exist. This is the exact reason we are having Tea Parties. If a person goes and does some risky work and get paid in cash, why would they feel an oblgation to give up 30% of it to tax? That is why the internet is full of offers for barter and cash, and it is only getting more so by the day.
Around here if you try to hire a person it is so many dollars in cash. If you pay by check or otherwise, it is 50% extra. I can assure you that if I find a big value at the lake or the fairgrounds or otherwise, I will do my honest best to locate the rightful owner, and if that fails, then it just turns to cash, with no obligation to reveal findings.
This area is almost total cash economy now.
Did you buy the mineral and water rights when you bought the land?
No, I agree. It’s that every country has a ‘crown’, us Uncle Sam, them the Queen.
> No, I agree. Its that every country has a crown, us Uncle Sam, them the Queen.
To be really technically picky, the Crown and the Queen are not the same thing.
The Queen — E-II-R — is a really nice lady and a veteran of WW-II.
The Crown is an enduring symbolic institution that will be around even after this particular Queen dies.
The Queen cannot tell the Crown what to do. She is only a person. A very special person, but a person nonetheless.
Your Uncle Sam analogy was spot-on. Your “crown” is Uncle Sam.
Did I buy them? They had never been sold. My mineral rights are intact, and I actually have the original water rights certificate for my ranch.
Why would you turn it in if you knew the frickin’ feds were going to take it? Found on your land but they can confiscate it if it is over a certain antiquity. The US has laws that are just as intrusive when it comes to treasures.
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·
I bet even the cows in your area are made of cash now.
I feel a story coming on.
I bet you are sooooo right, just like over your way. It is the way of the land.
.....he initially thought the engraved finger ring .....
My thought is that the work on the ring was produced by a stamp and not engraved.
Why would you not be “ALLOWED” to mine it? It is my property to the center of the earth. Who in their right minds would buy property that did not have the mineral and water rights intact? Actually who in their right minds would sell the mineral or water rights from their land?
Oh, ‘scuse me, I see you are from New Zealand,,,you wouldnt understand.
......Actually who in their right minds would sell the mineral or water rights from their land?......
It is a common practice. The mining and oil industries are derived from this ability to separate the rights in two.
Uhhhmmmm, Bert, yes........
I live right smack dab in the middle of the oil patch, I know about that. Which leads me back to who in their right minds would SELL their water or mineral rights? I have my land LEASED, as does most everyone here, but no one in there right minds would SELL their rights.
I can assure you that there have been more deadly fights over water and minerals than any other issues in this country. If you want to loose your scalp, just wander west of the Mississippi and begin your mumbling about separating the water rights from the land...........better stop and see me first, I will prepare your estate plan for you.
Ok, OK, I’ll partially concede . My knowledge rises from actually owning mineral rights back east and not cross the river. As a matter of fact, my grandfather’s job during the depression involved doing just that. He worked for a US Senator who was interested in mining and quarrying as welfare/jobs like operations. The process involved taking options then actually buying the rights. (Not Senator Gore Sr or Jr.)
In Tennessee there was a law passed in the 90’s that required owners of the rights to submit claim of ownership or lose the right. It was in many cases not worth the time or money to reassert the claim and the rights reverted to the current surface owner. There were were oil leases over the same properties wherein the oil lease was to the Mineral rights holder and not the surface holder.
> Why would you not be ALLOWED to mine it? It is my property to the center of the earth. Who in their right minds would buy property that did not have the mineral and water rights intact? Actually who in their right minds would sell the mineral or water rights from their land?
That would make an interesting experiment. I think you’ll find you “own” less of your land than you actually think.
Let’s say you find a few Indian skeleton with burial artifacts on your land. I suspect you’ll find the local tribe will have a thing or two to say about what you can and cannot do with it.
> Oh, scuse me, I see you are from New Zealand,,,you wouldnt understand.
I think you’ll also find that our property rights in New Zealand are at least as strong as yours are — probably stronger because we follow the British Common Law, which is an older, wiser and better system of governance than your relatively young US Laws.
Well, this relatively young colonist happens to know enough to keep his mouth shut should he find an Indian skeleton on his land. Having Indian blood on both sides of my family, I can assure you that I have the deepest respect for the ancestors of the land. In fact, there are graves on the land, we know where they are, but if you think for one fleeting instant that we are going to publicize it and get the state and all the Indian activists in fighting and tromping on the sacred ground, you have another thought coming. It aint gonna happen. We have the graves isolated, they are protected, and that is the way it will be.
People talk too much.
I guess it’s like I thought, then. You have “property rights” — sorta.
Fortunately British Common Law does not apply here. In fact, it may not apply anywhere if the British Government fails and falls as is predicted for next week——per Fox News.
> Fortunately British Common Law does not apply here. In fact, it may not apply anywhere if the British Government fails and falls as is predicted for next weekper Fox News.
LMAO. Because you are an American you misunderstand: the British Government “falling” is actually good news. I’ll take a moment to explain:
Prime Minister Brown is in charge of the Labor (liberal) Government over there. By his government “falling” the Conservatives will be able to seek a mandate to govern.
Your system doesn’t work like that because you do not follow a Parliamentary model. You see, British voters do not directly vote for their Prime Minister the way you vote for your President. Instead, the Party appoints their Party Leader.
When the British people vote, they vote for a Party, based on “ridings” (a geographical territory, if you like). The Party with the majority of “ridings” forms Government, and their Leader becomes Prime Minister. Each “riding” is represented in Parliament by an “MP” (Member of Parliament) who represented the Party with the most votes for that riding.
When a government falls, it is because enough MPs will no longer vote with the ruling Party on supply-and-confidence matters: that is to say, any bills requiring finance, or requiring a “vote of confidence” in the government.
This means that the next supply or confidence vote that happens will result in a majority of Parliament voting against it, thus making the Government “fall” or unable to governm.
So, for the sake of Conservatives worldwide, I would encourage you to hope and pray that the Labor government does indeed fall in the United Kingdom, and to celebrate with us when it does.
Then you do own it.
Or, rather, you lease it from the government.
I'll have a pint of Guinness for you when it does.
> I’ll have a pint of Guinness for you when it does.
(BIG GRIN!!!) And I will have one for you in return!
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