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Fossil Solves Mystery of Dinosaur Finger Evolution
LiveScience.com on Yahoo ^ | 6/17/09 | Jeanna Bryner

Posted on 06/17/2009 2:31:39 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

Bird wings clearly share ancestry with dinosaur "hands" or forelimbs. A school kid can see it in the bones. But paleontologists have long struggled to explain the so-called digit dilemma.

Here's the problem: The most primitive dinosaurs in the famous theropod group (that later included Tyrannosaurus rex) had five "fingers." Later theropods had three, just like the birds that evolved from them. But which digits? The theropod and bird digits failed to match up if you number the digits from 1 to 5 starting with the thumb. Theropods looked like they had digits 1, 2 and 3, while birds have digits 2, 3 and 4.

That mismatch failed to support the widely accepted evolutionary link between dinosaurs and birds.

Now, newly described fossilized hands from a beaked, plant-eating dinosaur, called Limusaurus inextricabilis, reveal a transitional step in the evolution of modern wings from dino digits. The finding could resolve a debate over which fingers ultimately became embedded in the wing.

"Limusaurus is another one of those discoveries that makes one excited to be a paleontologist," said Matthew Lamanna of the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh, .. "The discovery of a toothless, plant-eating Jurassic ceratosaur, from Asia of all places, is something that nobody in our field ever expected."

The remains of the dinosaur were discovered in the Junggar Basin of Xinjiang, in northwestern China. The deposits date back some 159 million years.

"This new animal is fascinating in and of itself, and when placed into an evolutionary context it offers intriguing evidence about how the hand of birds evolved," said James Clark of George Washington University. ..

Jack Conrad, vertebrate paleontologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, calls the finding a "spectacular discovery." Conrad was not involved in this current research.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: dinosaur; evolution; finger; fossil; godsgravesglyphs; junkscience; mystery; sciencefiction; showmethefossils; storkzilla
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1 posted on 06/17/2009 2:31:39 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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The newly identified dinosaur, Limusaurus inextricabilis, may have used its three-fingered hands to help it stand upright from a lying position. (Note that there is no direct evidence of feather-like structures.) Credit: Portia Sloan


2 posted on 06/17/2009 2:33:21 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: NormsRevenge

3 posted on 06/17/2009 2:40:13 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: NormsRevenge
Fossil Solves Mystery of Dinosaur Finger Evolution

It's only a mystery if one believes in such nonsense.

ML/NJ

4 posted on 06/17/2009 2:43:10 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: NormsRevenge
Birds could not have evolved from dinosaur
5 posted on 06/17/2009 2:48:10 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (When do the impeachment proceedings begin?)
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To: NormsRevenge

Did the evolutionists just give the skeptics the finger?


6 posted on 06/17/2009 2:50:28 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

No, evolutionists doesn’t give the skeptics anything more than lies with which to justify their deviant nature.

The bible, the word of god - is pretty clear on this issue.


7 posted on 06/17/2009 3:06:27 PM PDT by rudman
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To: rudman

Are the geologists and astrophysicists deviants, too?


8 posted on 06/17/2009 3:10:42 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: NormsRevenge

“The newly identified dinosaur, Limusaurus

I don’t know what it did with it’s little appendages,
but I promise you that thing could never fly!

Of course, after thousands of those things died because
they didn’t have the power of flight, the rest held a
council and determined they would have to change.
After a lot of discussion, they decided to grow wings
through selective breeding. Fortunately, they had billions
of years to accomplish the transition...

uh huh.


9 posted on 06/17/2009 3:15:20 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: tacticalogic

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/storkzilla/index


10 posted on 06/17/2009 3:20:12 PM PDT by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: NormsRevenge
In other science fiction non-news,
11 posted on 06/17/2009 3:24:46 PM PDT by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: The Spirit Of Allegiance

?


12 posted on 06/17/2009 3:28:02 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

An artist’s rendition of a theory doth not a fossil record make.


13 posted on 06/17/2009 3:29:45 PM PDT by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: The Spirit Of Allegiance
An artist’s rendition of a theory doth not a fossil record make.

I think pretty much everyone knows that.

14 posted on 06/17/2009 3:33:08 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: NormsRevenge; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks NormsRevenge.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


15 posted on 06/17/2009 3:50:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv

uh-oh... just posted it from NatGeo...


16 posted on 06/17/2009 3:52:25 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: The Spirit Of Allegiance

Looks like something out of The Dark Crystal...


17 posted on 06/17/2009 3:53:54 PM PDT by Monkey Face (RUN, SARAH, RUN! ~~ (Stolen from redhead))
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To: SunkenCiv

You have mail...


18 posted on 06/17/2009 3:54:16 PM PDT by Monkey Face (RUN, SARAH, RUN! ~~ (Stolen from redhead))
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To: NormsRevenge

Tastes like the winged hairy apeterix.


19 posted on 06/17/2009 4:26:17 PM PDT by wildbill ( The reason you're so jealous is that the voices talk only to me.)
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To: rudman

“The bible, the word of god - is pretty clear on this issue.”

It is. I’m sure that you also buy your slaves from the nations around you (Leviticus 25:44-45).


20 posted on 06/17/2009 4:45:51 PM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: SunkenCiv
CASSOWARY. LIVING FOSSIL?

"The inner or second of the three toes is fitted with a long, straight, murderous nail which can sever an arm or eviscerate an abdomen with ease. There are many records of natives being killed by this bird."

ADOPT AN AUSTRALIAN CASSOWARY

21 posted on 06/17/2009 4:56:23 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: xcamel; SunkenCiv
stealing your image:


22 posted on 06/17/2009 5:03:57 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Buck W.
It is. I’m sure that you also buy your slaves from the nations around you (Leviticus 25:44-45).

Just to do the jobs that Americans won't do.

23 posted on 06/17/2009 5:05:42 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools - Solon, Lawmaker of Athens)
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To: Fred Nerks

"Polly wanna Crevo?"
24 posted on 06/17/2009 5:06:53 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: SunkenCiv; xcamel
BBC IMAGE SOURCE

The Limusaurus fossil sits among small crocodile fossils

25 posted on 06/17/2009 5:13:19 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: xcamel

mine's bigger than yours...

26 posted on 06/17/2009 5:20:29 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks

Or Not..
27 posted on 06/17/2009 5:23:57 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: xcamel

You win! That’s HUGE.

You may enjoy this:

http://ix.cs.uoregon.edu/~kent/paleontology/new/index.html


28 posted on 06/17/2009 5:41:52 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks

That indeed is very cool.


29 posted on 06/17/2009 5:43:41 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: tacticalogic
Are the geologists and astrophysicists deviants, too?

Yes, as is anyone who uses electricity.

30 posted on 06/17/2009 5:52:10 PM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 149 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: tacticalogic

If they participate in this fraud, then yes, they are.

A fancy degree does not make a person godly. Godly acts, godly thoughts, make a person godly.

When Jesus calls us home, I know there won’t be any darwinists with me on that narrow road.


31 posted on 06/18/2009 4:00:50 AM PDT by rudman
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To: rudman

These are “deviants” participating in a “fraud”. Shouldn’t there be laws against that?


32 posted on 06/18/2009 4:07:02 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: rudman

“Godly acts, godly thoughts, make a person godly.”

Who decides what is godly—other than God himself, that is?


33 posted on 06/18/2009 6:55:11 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: JoeProBono

????????????


34 posted on 06/18/2009 7:34:59 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: ml/nj

No. Its nonesense when facts stare yoou in the face and you insist on using a personal distorted view of a theological and philosophical document as a science text.

The Inquisition made the same mistake with Galileo about the Geocentric versus Heliocentric Universe theories.

Religion and science are separate disciplines and one should not intrude upon the other.


35 posted on 06/18/2009 7:37:35 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: rudman

So people who accept evolution are “deviants”?

I guess follwoing the same logic, people who believe the earth revolves around the sun instead of vice-versa, are also deviants since the Bible clearly states the sun revolves around the earth.

The Bible is pretty clear on theological issues. If you want scientific facts, you look at scientific research. If you believe a religious text holds the answer to every question, you have a lot in common with the Ayatollahs and the Inquisition.


36 posted on 06/18/2009 7:40:49 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: rudman
When you imply that people who accept evolution don't believe in the Bible or God, you are stating a misfact.

Because I don't accept YOUR version of creation doesn't make me an atheist any more than your narrow view of the Bible makes you an accomplished theologian.

37 posted on 06/18/2009 7:43:56 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: Buck W.

Apparently Rudman.


38 posted on 06/18/2009 7:44:31 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: ZULU
...the Bible clearly states the sun revolves around the earth.

Chapter and verse, please?

Cordially,

39 posted on 06/18/2009 7:50:07 AM PDT by Diamond
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To: ZULU
Religion and science are separate disciplines and one should not intrude upon the other.

Sez who? Since your statement is not a statement of science, but rather a philosophical statement about science, by what authority do you impose this epistemological obligation?

Cordially,

40 posted on 06/18/2009 8:11:37 AM PDT by Diamond
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To: ZULU
Religion and science are separate disciplines

Who said anything about religion? I really don't know what you know about science, but my degrees are in science. (macro) "Evolution" is hardly science. You evolution folks are the ones who "believe" and your belief is, IMHO, just a bit more fantastic that the one held by the Genesis crowd.

ML/NJ

41 posted on 06/18/2009 8:29:56 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: LiteKeeper
Do we eat Kentucky Fried Dinosaur? According to the dogma of many evolutionary propagandists for the last decade or so, indeed we do

I stopped reading right there.
42 posted on 06/18/2009 9:06:11 AM PDT by BJClinton (One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: BJClinton

That certainly is an objective, unbiased attitude. Why not read the whole argument to see if there is anything of value before you make a decision?


43 posted on 06/18/2009 9:12:44 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (When do the impeachment proceedings begin?)
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To: Diamond

Check this site out. It was not easy to find. But ti appears to lay out the scriptural verses cited by the Medieval Chirch’s opposition to the Copernican and Galilean heliocentric theories.

http://hypertextbook.com/eworld/geocentric.shtml


44 posted on 06/18/2009 9:13:18 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: Diamond

Science is concerned with what can be concluded by examining physical evidence and conducting experiments. Faith has no place.

Religion is based on faith and the scriptures and one’s interpretation of scripture. If Christian scripture was so clear and obvious, you wouldn’t have so many different Christian sects claiming their own interpretation of scripture was the only true version.

I find it puzzling to have to define the diference between Theology and Science.

But then perhaps that explains the obtuseness of the anti-evolutionary mind.


45 posted on 06/18/2009 9:17:25 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: ml/nj

I have two degrees in zoology. I think I know the reasonableness of evolution as a scientific “theory”.

I am also a self-confessed Christian who basically believes in the Bible as a soiurce of religious and moral dogma. I have no problem reconciling my faith with scientific fact.

Its unfortunate some other individuals’ faith is so shallow they need to reject scientific facts to confirm their religious beliefs.


46 posted on 06/18/2009 9:20:32 AM PDT by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: LiteKeeper

An “argument” that starts by claiming science claims we are eating chicken fried dinosaurs is too puerile too be worth my time.


47 posted on 06/18/2009 9:42:05 AM PDT by BJClinton (One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: BJClinton

Or perhaps someone has lost his sense of humor!


48 posted on 06/18/2009 10:19:17 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (When do the impeachment proceedings begin?)
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To: ZULU
I think I know the reasonableness of evolution as a scientific “theory”.

Really?

So, can you make a testable prediction based upon this theory?

Can you even tell me what the theory is? Is it based in any way upon what Darwin wrote in Origin of Species? What text best explains this theory to students?

I have several texts that supposedly deal with evolution. E.g. I have Freeman and Herron's Evolutionary Analysis 3rd Edition at hand; 802 pages. It has one chapter on speciation, which is all we're talking about here. The chapter begins on page 583. It runs on to page 614. The rest is primarily fluff, not very different from the stuff in Genesis where Jacob breeds spotted goats. The index references to speciation are: 37, 102-3, 574, 583-614. In other words a book on evolution has 36 pages out of 802 pages which even attempt to touch on the topic. I haven't looked at the speciation chapter recently but my recollection is that it doesn't do much to explain how a new animal species might arise; and answers no questions that I might raise. If you think this is science, you should return your degrees.

ML/NJ

49 posted on 06/18/2009 11:22:03 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ZULU
A brief perusal of his page tells me that renouned Hebrew scholar and high school teacher Glenn Elert probably ought to stick to physics. This is Elert's expert characterization of Biblical heurmenuetics:
"The message here is, I think, obvious. The Bible is the literal truth only when it's convenient and doesn't conflict with overwhelming evidence. In my view, this invalidates the core of the anti-evolutionary movement in its entirety. If the Bible is open to interpretation from time to time, then it is open to interpretation at any time. If the Bible is occasionally poetic, then it is possibly poetic at any time -- even on the first page, even on the last page, even on every page."

He doesn't cite any source to substantiate his cartoon caricature of Biblical hermeneutics and scholarship. However, his his own rule of interpretation apparently requires one to ignore the context and type of the literature in question when necessary to maintain the pretense that the Bible doesn't make sense or is inaccurate in some scientific way. His logic is that because some of the Bible is poetic all of it can possibly be poetic, with the exception that Hebrew poetic literature should not be interpreted as poetry, and ordinary phenomenological language and idiomatic expressions ought always be interpreted anachronistically in a modern, "progressive" Western, hyper-literal sense where such interpretations are useful for discrediting the Bible. Thus:

Psalms 19:4-6
yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.

means that "sunrise" and "sunset" are proof that the Bible is inaccurate scientifically.

Mr. Elert has apparently never heard of phenomenological language:

Almanac

Key: T = Trace of precipitation; MM = data not available
June 18, 2009
Normal high: 86° Record high: 100° (1953)
Normal low: 67° Record low: 52° (1961)
Sunrise : 5:35 AM Moon Rise: 1:53 AM
Sunset: 8:28 PM Moon Set: 4:09 PM
Complete weather almanac
Detailed History and Climate

Cordially,

50 posted on 06/18/2009 12:06:58 PM PDT by Diamond
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