Skip to comments.Media Mischief, the Eligibility Issue and the Dispositive Fact
Posted on 07/25/2009 4:03:49 PM PDT by real_patriotic_american
Last week, the media was forced into reporting on the Obama birth-certificate/eligibility issue. It had little choice because respected CNN Journalist Lou Dobbs had the audacity to suggest that Obama should produce his long-form birth certificate to put to rest the doubts of millions of Americans who believe Obama is not constitutionally eligible to serve as President. Immediately and predictably, much of the reporting from the main stream media was in the form of vicious attacks, seeking to discredit Mr. Dobbs and others looking for clear and convincing evidence that Mr. Obama is or is not a Natural Born Citizen entitling him to serve as President of the United States. Left-wing bloggers and those in the media who have been carry Obamas water this past year circled the wagons, and calls that Lou Dobbs be fired rang out. I have to salute Lou Dobbs for his courage and sense of ethical responsibility in addressing this issue at all. Of all the CNN commentators, Lou Dobbs is the one who consistently tries to be fair to all sides.
Yesterday, the Los Angeles Times reported that CNN/U.S. President Jon Klein told staffers at the cable news network Thursday night that the supposed controversy regarding the legitimacy of President Obamas birth certificate is a dead story. The article went on to report:
The website TVNewser reported today that Klein sent an e-mail to staffers of Lou Dobbs Tonight just as the program went to air, informing them that CNN researchers had determined that Hawaiian officials discarded all paper documents in 2001. A long-form birth certificate with details about the doctor who delivered Obama no longer exists, they reported. The shorter Certificate of Live Birth noting Obamas birth on Aug. 4, 1961, that has been made public is the official record.
It seems to definitively answer the question, Klein wrote, according to TVNewser. Since the show's mission is for Lou to be the explainer and enlightener, he should be sure to cite this during your segment tonite. And then it seems this story is dead -- because anyone who still is not convinced doesn't really have a legitimate beef.
Whether or not the assertion that Obamas long form birth certificate has been destroyed is true, the action by Mr. Klein was clearly intended to get Lou Dobbs to stop rocking the boat and move on.
It seems to me that if the facts are as Mr. Klein says, serious reporters and investigators would be turning over every stone to try to find the truth. Serious reporters would be going to Kenya; talking to administrators, faculty, and students at all the colleges Obama attended to discover if he talked about his birthplace, applied/registered as a foreign student or received aid as a foreign student; they'd be looking at his past travel and what passports he carried; and they would be seeking the information provided on Obama's Illinois Bar Application. One would think that an innocent person sitting in the Oval Office would quickly provide all information necessary to put to bed this troubling eligibility issue. Obama has not. (George Bush or Bill Clinton would have, Im sure.) In fact, Obama has spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (some say 1 to 2 million) trying to keep the past hidden. Thank you, Lou Dobbs, for having the courage to ask the simple question - Where's the Birth Certificate?
I seriously long for the good old days, when if a reporter or CNN President said something, there was a better than 50% chance it was true. Unfortunately, regarding the birth certificate issue most reporters today are intentionally misstating the facts. In many of todays news stories, the headline or body of the story will say something like "birthers don't believe Obama is a Citizen or of course Obama is a Citizen or Lou Dobbs believes Obama is a Citizen. Such statements are intentionally misleading and are included to portray those asking questions as ridiculous tin-foil hat wearing fools. As Mr. Dobbs has quickly learned, there is a price to be paid for asking questions that might impugn the Obama narrative. (Larry Sinclair was certainly taught this lesson.)
It seems the media is reading from the same playbook. They have somehow decided that if they can blur the meanings of terms Citizen and Natural Born Citizen, the general public will not look deeply into the issue because the answer is so obvious, and it will go away. I guess they hope that any time the issue comes up in conversation there will be a knee jerk reaction causing someone to say: Thats stupid, of course Obama is a Citizen, only a fool would think such a thing. Ridicule is effective, but it wont deter those who have seriously looked at the allegations and the common sense circumstances that compel further inquiry. Why has Obama not provided his school records, Illinois bar application, long-form birth certificate, passport information, etc., if he doesnt have anything to hide? Why has he spent such enormous sums of money on lawyers to keep these documents hidden? Common sense says theres something here. Common sense also says that if these allegations are true, this would be biggest fraud perpetrated against America in her history. To far fetched? Did you see the news about authorities arrest 44 in N.J. corruption case (2 lawmakers, 3 mayors, and rabbis accused)? (Mostly, Democrats as far as I can tell.) The media playbook conveys the understanding that its important to blur the definitions of Citizen and Natural Born Citizen because it goes to heart of the matter, the legal and common sense notions of dispositive facts. If this is true, then everything else is false or doesnt matter. Period! Then anyone who raises such questions is a fool. Obama is a Citizen and of course he is eligible is what the media wants people to believe. This is pure media mischief, dishonesty, and treachery through and through.
Heres what people need to know. Even accepting as fact that Obama is a Citizen of the United States, it is not a dispositive fact that would determine the outcome of the eligibility issue. There are many ways to become an American Citizen. How one acquires Natural Born Citizen status is determined solely by the Constitution of the United States. Citizen and Natural Born Citizen are NOT synonymous terms. It is the Law (Constitutionally required) that every person holding the Office of President must meet the "Natural Born Citizen" test, which was meant to provide an added measure of presumed allegiance to the United States and her Constitution. (For example: We would not want an arsonist to be able to become a fireman. If a person does not have a clean record regarding arson, he or she should not be allowed to be a fireman. Its not a guarantee that a fireman with no criminal record of arson is not an arsonist, but its a step that gives an added measure security.) As Obama says, let me be clear, one can be a Citizen and NOT be a "Natural Born Citizen."
The flip side of this coin - if Obama is found not to be a "Natural Born Citizen", it would be the "dispositive fact" that would determine the outcome of the eligibility issue. Obama could not be President.
So, which type of Citizen is Obama? Real reporters would be turning over heaven and earth to find out. The American reporters are turning over heaven and earth to cover it up.
Dispositive Fact - Jural facts, or those acts or events that create, modify or extinguish jural relations. Black's Law Dictionary 5th Edition
Is Obama a Natural Born Citizen? It is the one question that must be answered.
There is no middle ground. If Obama cannot serve as Office of the President of the United States, then all appointments (Holder, Sotomayor, Czars, etc.) made by Obama are invalid; as well as any laws, acts or treaties entered into. If Obama cannot lawfully hold the Office of the President of the United States, all orders issued to the United States Military are "unlawful orders". This last point is why I am so thankful that it appears that Dr. Orly Taitz's eligibility case will be heard on the merits. Every soldier has a legal responsibility to follow only orders that are "lawful". Given that burden, every soldier must have a right to be certain of Obamas authority.
When I look at what Obama has done, is doing and/or proposing regarding Obamanomics, ObamaCare, taking over the auto industry, taking over banks, corrupting Inspector Generals independence, the unwillingness to audit the Fed., his unjust treatment of Inspector General Walpin, his lack of transparency, his appointment of an army of Czars circumventing Congress, his appoint to the Supreme Court, his appointment to head Science, Gitmo, abortion, eugenics, trans-nationalist ideologies, trampling on States rights guaranteed under the 10th Amendment, his assault on the Second Amendment, Homeland Security looking at returning Veterans as Terrorists, ACORN, national security, the Census, his treatment of the Cambridge police, and Cap & Tax; it sure looks to me like an arsonist trying to burn up the Constitution of the United States and replace it with some sort of Socialist manifesto.
If Obama is going to cause the destruction of America and Israel, I at least want to know that he was constitutionally empowered as a Natural Born Citizen serving as President of the United States to destroy us. I hate to think all this could have been prevented by some state official somewhere doing their job and asking to see proof that Obama was eligible to run for office. That never happened.
E-Mail CNN and thank Lou Dobbs for covering the Obama non natural born citizen issue. Ask them to continue covering it and require that Obama presents his original long form birth certificate to prove whether he is eligible to serve as President since he may not be a natural born citizen:
I found these addresses too: Lou Dobbs, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Lou Dobbs, email@example.com CNN _____________________
Anderson Cooper 360, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Anderson Cooper comment, CNN, Andrea Koppel, email@example.com CNN, Bill Hemmer comment, CNN, Bill Schneider, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Bruce Morton, email@example.com CNN, Candy Crowley, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Carlos Watson comment, CNN, Carol Costello comment, CNN, Carol Lin, email@example.com CNN, Christiane Amanpour comment, CNN, Crossfire, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Daryn Kagan comment, CNN, Daryn Kagan, email@example.com CNN, David Ensor, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Daybreak, email@example.com CNN, Fredricka Whitfield comment, CNN, Heidi Collins comment, CNN, Howard Kurtz, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, CNN, In The Money, email@example.com CNN, Inside Politics, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, James Carville, email@example.com CNN, Jeanne Meserve, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Jeff Greenfield comment, CNN, Jeff Greenfield, email@example.com CNN, Jim Walton (President of CNN News Group), firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Judy Woodruff comment, CNN, Judy Woodruff, email@example.com CNN, Kelly Wallace, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Kyra Phillips comment, CNN, Kyra Phillips, email@example.com CNN, Larry King comment, CNN, Live At CNN, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Live From, email@example.com CNN, Live Today, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Miles OBrien comment, CNN, Miles OBrien, email@example.com CNN, Moneyline, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, news tips, CNN, Newsnight, email@example.com CNN, other anchor/reporter comments, CNN, Paul Begala, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Paula Zahn comment, CNN, Paula Zahn Now, email@example.com CNN, Paula Zahn, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Paula Zahn, email@example.com CNN, report errors, CNN, Rick Davis (Executive Vice President - CNN News Standards and Practices), firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Robert Novak, email@example.com CNN, Soledad OBrien comment, CNN, Tom Hannon (Political Director), firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Tucker Carlson, email@example.com CNN, War in Iraq comment, CNN, Weekend American Morning, firstname.lastname@example.org CNN, Wolf Blitzer comment, CNN, Wolf Blitzer, email@example.com CNN, Wolf Blitzer, firstname.lastname@example.org
I tried to bring up the issue with a local radio talk show host a little more than a week ago. He interrupted me a couple of times before hanging up on me.
Because the media and Democrats don’t want you to know the truth. They are one in the same.
“I tried to bring up the issue with a local radio talk show host a little more than a week ago. He interrupted me a couple of times before hanging up on me.”
Senpai to kohai: ''Next, they'll call you a racist."
Decent article suggesting the media should be all over Obama’s original long form birth certificate issue.
I believe that Obama was born in Kenya. Even if he were actually born in Hawaii, he would NOT be a natural born citizen since his father was of a foreign sovereignty (Kenya, British Colony).
“If Obama has nothing to hide than there is no reason he should not produce his birth certificate. Even if his father were not Barrack Obama Sr. or his mother had some other dalliances, it would make no difference to him being President as long as he was native born as the Constitution requires. The longer he refuses to clear the record the more these suspicions will remain.”
This is an important article that calls into question the journalistic credentials of the American press. It seems highly unlikely, however, that Hawaii destroyed original documents. Indeed, we know Hawaiian officials have confirmed recent access to O’s BC.
The biggest part of this shell game is that O and his operatives have convinced most of America that we have the burden of proving O is unqualified.
It is exactly the opposite, O has always had the burden of proving he is qualified.
He acknowledged that burden when he signed or arranged for his agent(s) to sign each states primary election certification that he was qualified/eligible for the office of the president. Such execution was made, of course, under penalty of perjury.
Later, the January 8, 2009 Joint Session of Congress was called solely for the purpose of assuring America that the election was conducted properly. O had the burden of satisfying any request by the Congress in that Session to demonstrate his citizenship (see 20th Amendment, if the President elect shall have failed to qualify as well as 3 USC 15).
Every liberal I have argued with has conceded that O was obligated to produce, or to authorize Hawaii to produce, a verifiably authentic BC if the Congress had required such prior to accepting the work of the Electoral College.
Should the Congress have requested that document? Without queston, particularly in the face of the substantial pre-election concern and outrage transmitted to Congress over the fact that there was absolutely nothing in the public record that demonstrated O was a U.S. citizen.
He may be qualified, but there is no reason to believe so and Congress had a duty to the nation to act on the issue.
Which is why I have previously stated that every single Republican in the Congress was seduced into going limp and sitting on their hands during the Session.
“It seems to me that if the facts are as Mr. Klein says, serious reporters and investigators would be turning over every stone to try to find the truth. Serious reporters would be going to Kenya; talking to administrators, faculty, and students at all the colleges Obama attended to discover if he talked about his birthplace, applied/registered as a foreign student or received aid as a foreign student; they’d be looking at his past travel and what passports he carried; and they would be seeking the information provided on Obama’s Illinois Bar Application. One would think that an innocent person sitting in the Oval Office would quickly provide all information necessary to put to bed this troubling eligibility issue. Obama has not. (George Bush or Bill Clinton would have, Im sure.) In fact, Obama has spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (some say 1 to 2 million) trying to keep the past hidden. Thank you, Lou Dobbs, for having the courage to ask the simple question - Where’s the Birth Certificate?”
Does the name Pelosi come to mind?
“........ He acknowledged that burden when he signed or arranged for his agent(s) to sign each states primary election certification that he was qualified/eligible for the office of the president. Such execution was made, of course, under penalty of perjury.”
Very interesting excerpt from your profile enclosed below:
1ST AMENDMENT PETITION
seeking the REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES
WHEREAS, at the time of President Obamas birth his father was not a United States citizen and his mother was a United States citizen under 19 years of age;
WHEREAS, the relevant statute in effect throughout 1961 would not allow United States citizenship at birth to an infant born abroad with such parentage;
WHEREAS, Article II of the United States Constitution requires the President to be a natural born citizen;
WHEREAS, pursuant to the statute and the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, the location of President Obamas birth is a critical element in the determination of whether he is a natural born citizen;
WHEREAS, President Obama recently represented in the case of Hollister v Soetero that he publicly provided to several internet websites a certified copy of his purported birth certificate which purportedly shows a birth in Hawaii;
WHEREAS, the document made public is a Certification of Live Birth (COLB) not an Hawaii birth Certificate; significantly, Hawaii emphasizes its COLB is not conclusive evidence of a birth in Hawaii;
WHEREAS, candidate Obama expended substantial effort and legal expense to defend multiple lawsuits, in an attempt to avoid providing the Certificate of Live Birth underlying the COLB;
WHEREAS, document examiners have identified several unmistakable defects and anomalies in the provided COLB, and conclude that it is a fabricated document, one that immediately violates state and federal felony statutes regarding fraudulent use of forged or altered identification documents;
WHEREAS, if the only assurance candidate Obama provided to state primary election officials that he was an eligible candidate was to sign state-provided certifications, under penalty of perjury, it is possible those officials were subsequently satisfied of the candidates eligibility by the COLB;
WHEREAS, Congress was put on notice by numerous voters and groups prior to the November 4, 2008 election of substantial concerns regarding candidate Obamas Article II eligibility, it is possible members of Congress were satisfied of the candidates eligibility by the COLB;
WHEREAS, Congress convened on January 8, 2009 in a Joint Session solely for the purpose of receiving, verifying and tallying the votes of the Electoral College and accepting, or objecting to and where appropriate disqualifying those votes in accordance with 3 USC 15;
WHEREAS, Congress failed to call for objections to any Certificate of Vote presented by the Electoral College during the Joint Session in accordance with 3 USC 15;
WHEREAS, such a call would have provided an opportunity to address the issue of whether the President elect was eligible in accordance with Article II and would have been prerequisite to valid acceptance of any Certificate, nonetheless Congress accepted the votes of the Electoral College without such a call;
WHEREAS, in the face of this extraordinary controversy the citizens of the United States are entitled to know whether the President of the United States satisfies the natural born citizen requirement of Article II;
WHEREAS, the members of Congress are sworn to uphold the United States Constitution;
NOW THEREFORE, we the undersigned request that Congress establish a joint special committee to investigate the question of President Obamas constitutional eligibility, which shall have the mandate to subpoena and examine forensically all documents, including but not limited to his original certificate of birth, bearing upon such question.
The petition can also be found at http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/1st-amendment-petition.html
The AZ Sec. of State certification states "natural born" explicitly.
Terrific! That will take Pelosi too!
Excerpt (and you wrote)-
“........ He acknowledged that burden when he signed or arranged for his agent(s) to sign each states primary election certification that he was qualified/eligible for the office of the president. Such execution was made, of course, under penalty of perjury.”
“The AZ Sec. of State certification states “natural born” explicitly.”
“NOW THEREFORE, we the undersigned request that Congress establish a joint special committee to investigate the question of President Obamas constitutional eligibility...”
(Snicker) You want these brassless congress critters to go after the truth? Don’t hold your breath until it happens.
I’d love to see someone going after the individuals who signed to vouch for the eligibility of Obama. Nothing like setting them at each other’s throats to clear things up.
Didn’t you read the article?
“natual born citizen” is the Constitutional requirement. Native born isn’t enough to be president.
A natural born citizen is a person born in a country in which both parents are citizens.
John Jay wrote a letter to George Washington (who led the Constitutional Congress) requesting that “natural born Citizen” be a requirement for anyone wanting to be President of the United States. That is why it is in there under Article 2.
The following candidates for President in 2008 were ineligible for the office:
Calera, Socialist Party - born Venezuela.
McCain, Republican Party - born city of Colon, Republic of Panama,
Obama, Democrat Party - father a British subject who registered his son as a British subject.
Note: the Senate passed a resolution stating that John McCain was a natural born citizen because both his parents were U.S. citizens. But any changes to the U.S.Constitution must be approved by a majority of the States per the U.S.Constitution. Shameful behavior on the part of Senators!
George Soros donated heavily to all three candidate. The fix seems to have been in from the start - eliminating Hillary Clinton from the running was obviously important to whoever was behind this situation.
So yes, the Republcans did nothing to challenge Obama because their candidate wasn't eligible either.
Interesting document. Obama is a lawyer and will not be able to say he doesn’t understand what a natural born citizen is. He knows exactly what he is.
Nancy Pelosi. We can have her removed as well.
“Id love to see someone going after the individuals who signed to vouch for the eligibility of Obama. Nothing like setting them at each others throats to clear things up.”
John McCain’s situation as a natural born citizen was well set prior to him ever running for office way back even before the 1980s. Since McCain’s father was serving in the military and his mother also a citizen when he was born, McCain is a natural born citizen.
It is, isn't it?
Both parts, for the benefit of all to view:
There are two basic groups of people who oppose that the POTUS be NBC. Those who don't understand clearly what NBC is, and those who DO understand, and hate it. I'm sure Chester Arthur understood what it meant, and what he was; that's when he started burning his personal papers.
I have some comments concerning Obama's 2008 Arizona eligibility form displayed here:
1. Obama's eligibility form was received on Dec. 13, 2008.
2. As I understand it, the people of Arizona have 1 to 5 days to challenge Obama's eligibility form for this coming 2012 presidential campaign.
3. So I hope that in Dec. 2011, when Obama files his eligibility form in Arizona to run in the 2012 presidential primaries, there will be many people in Arizona who will immediately file a challenge to force Obama to provide some documents, like a Hawaii long form birth certificate, that prove that he is eligible beyond a shadow of a doubt to be President of the United States.
4.NOTE: Obama's signature on ARIZONA eligibility form vs. Selective Service form: Has anyone reading this message taken a recent look at Obama's Selective Service document as posted on the internet, specifically Obama's signature?
5. Myself, I was amazed how much Obama's signature has changed from nearly 25 years ago when Obama signed the Selective Service document to the time he signed the Arizona eligibility form in Nov. 2008.
6. It is as if two different people signed the two documents. Interesting.
Yes it is. (Decent article). Too bad it is from Australia and not from the MSM in the US. Our MSM continues to be Pravada like and in journalistic malpractice mode.
I meant to type "Dec. 13, 2007", when I mistakenly typed "Dec.13, 2008".
Again, I mistakenyl typed "2008" in several sentences when I meant to type "2007".
Obviously, the presidential election took place in November 2008, so the primaries began in 2007, not 2008.
NOTE: On some message boards, a poster can edit his message AFTER he posts a message, but I guess a poster cannot do that here. Oh, well.
No, he isn’t. He is considered a citizen because of this parents citizenship, but is not now, nor has he ever been, a natural born citizen.
Interesting document. Obama is a lawyer and will not be able to say he doesnt understand what a natural born citizen is. He knows exactly what he is.
See document, and comment below it.
Ask the moderators they may be able to help.
Per Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, one must be a natural born American citizen to serve as President. Barack Obama is NOT eligible for the Presidency because he is not a natural born citizen. John A. Bingham, primary framer, 14th Amendment, states- “Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” Obama himself has stated that he is the son of a Kenyan- Kenya being a foreign sovereignty. Thus, Obama is not a natural born citizen even if he were actually born in Hawaii.