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Health reform idea: Put down the doughnut
MSNBC ^ | 08/11/2009 | JoNel Aleccia

Posted on 08/11/2009 6:06:13 AM PDT by Liberty1970

If you ask Dr. Steven Spady, there are two important words missing from the nation’s conversation about health reform: “personal responsibility.”

But Spady, a 54-year-old emergency physician in rural Kentucky, can’t talk about the topic right now. He’s too busy caring for people who he says don’t take care of themselves.

“I just had to go take care of man that left our hospital this morning and now has gone and got drunk and will suck up more health care dollars,” Spady wrote in a hurried e-mail late on a recent weeknight.

That same day, he cared for a 358-pound man with diabetes who didn’t take his medication for two days and then stayed up all night playing poker, plus five different people who overdosed on prescription drugs.

“It just makes me very upset when I have to pay more and more taxes to support government health care programs and have to work longer and longer hours to help a lot of people that just don’t seem to care,” he wrote.

It’s not that Spady lacks compassion. He’s been on medical missions to Mexico and Haiti and has donated thousands of hours of free care in the Appalachian community where he’s worked for nearly a quarter century.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Food; Health/Medicine; Science
KEYWORDS: healthcare; healthreform; obesity; responsibility
In this idiotic debate over whether we should maintain the status quo of having insurance companies control our healthcare or should let the government control our healthcare, the simple idea of having a free market has been entirely lost. Make people pay their own way for healthcare the same as for food, housing and every other necessity of life, and the responsibility issue would take care of itself.

Socialization of healthcare, whether via insurance companies or the government, ought to be illegal. If I break my arm, why on earth should anyone else on the planet be forced to pay for it?? It's one thing to be charitable (and I sincerely encourage everyone to help those in need with healthcare costs), but coercion to require payment for other people's health costs is just plain evil.

1 posted on 08/11/2009 6:06:13 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: Liberty1970
As the article states further down: "There’s no doubt that the bulk of the nation’s health care costs are self-inflicted. "

So why should Person A (etc.) be forced to pay for Person B's bad choices??

2 posted on 08/11/2009 6:07:21 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: Liberty1970

Tort reform -— The missing two words.

The doughnut is just a diversion.


3 posted on 08/11/2009 6:08:51 AM PDT by Tarpon (The Joker's plan -- Slavery by debt so large it can never be repaid)
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To: Liberty1970

To go further with that thought: Is it Person A’s right to tell Person B how to live?


4 posted on 08/11/2009 6:08:57 AM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Liberty1970

They don’t give a damn about your health; it’s power over your entire life they want including your bank account.

http://www.60plus.org/


5 posted on 08/11/2009 6:09:22 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Liberty1970

The more I think about it the more I wish I could go to the veterinarian for treatment. At least with the vet I have choices without government or insurance company interference.


6 posted on 08/11/2009 6:10:34 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Seniors, the new shovel ready project under socialized medicine.)
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To: Liberty1970
We didn't have a health care problem until the left decided it wanted to control it. They sent out the trial lawyers to destroy it, and here we are today - in chaos. This is how they've taken control of other things as well.

.

In Rules for Radicals, Alinsky outlines his strategy in organizing, writing in the prologue,

"There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution."

7 posted on 08/11/2009 6:18:31 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Liberty1970
TARP had nothing to do with getting the financial businesses back on their feet.

Stimulus has nothing to do with getting the economy back on it's feet.

Cap and Trade has nothing to do improving Energy production or controlling Pollution.

The Health Care bill has nothing to do with improving health care.

EVERYTHING NANCY PELOSI AND HARRY REID HAVE DONE SINCE BEFORE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND SINCE WITH OBAMA'S HELP HAS BEEN ABOUT SECURING POWER FOR THEIR FORM OF GOVERNMENT AND TAKING ALL POWER AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC!

9 posted on 08/11/2009 6:21:23 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Liberty1970
The idea that people make bad decisions is very old and very true. There are two possible approaches to mitigate this:

1) Let some really smart person make all the decisions for the mass of stupid people.
2) Make people experience the consequences of making bad decisions.

The first choice is the path of socialism and slavery. The second choice is the path of individualism and freedom. Right now, we're on the wrong path.

10 posted on 08/11/2009 6:23:46 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: cripplecreek

Our vet is so much more responsive than our doctors, LOL. They actually make follow up calls after you’ve had a sick dog to them. Often they’ll call later in the day, or the next day to check up on them. Has a physician ever done that for us...heck no...it’s even hard to get in to see them after you’ve been released from the hospital and the hospital has recommended a follow up visit. Oh well, it is what it is.


11 posted on 08/11/2009 6:23:57 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: carton253
To go further with that thought: Is it Person A’s right to tell Person B how to live?

No...but it isn't person A's responsibility to bear the cost for the way person B has lived.

For example, a person who works out intensely and regularly should pay for health insurance that reflects actuarial assumptions for similar individuals instead of a group that includes mostly couch potatoes and over-eaters.

12 posted on 08/11/2009 6:28:22 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (If the auto industry and banking were Obama's Austria and Czechoslovakia, healthcare is his Poland.)
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To: Liberty1970

Good points. And in the past churches and other charities - the community - passed around the hat to help those truly in need.

Real compassion consists of iving voluntarily to those who need it, not having the government force people to support others who are not even trying to help themselves.

But the welfare state encourages people to see how much they can take from the system.


13 posted on 08/11/2009 6:28:22 AM PDT by cvq3842 (Countless thousands of our ancestors died to give us the freedoms we have today. Stay involved!)
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To: Tarpon
Tort reform -— The missing two words.
The doughnut is just a diversion.

Exactly. The left sent out the trial lawyers and activists to break the system. Now, the politicians - both democrat and Republican - "have no choice" but to take it over.

This was a planned take over from the beginning. Overwhelm the system so much, the people cry out for the politicians to "save them"

This trick worked on our marriages, our schools, our housing, our banks, our insurance corps., they're still working on welfare autos, and now they're after our flesh and blood.

No one is talking about tort reform. If they kill the disease, they'll lose the power to milk the symptoms forever.

They'll have absolute power if they can control our DNA. Universal Health Care gave it to Hitler, so it'll work for them, too.

14 posted on 08/11/2009 6:29:55 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: dawn53
We've had much, much better experiences with our midwives (the real kind), then with any institutional medical providers. Not to mention they are enormously less expensive. My wife is blessed to know a couple brave women who still do midwifery the old-fashioned way (we do home birth), even though the State considers it "practiciing medicine" and prosecutes them when it can (while denying them a method of getting licensed under state law!)

(Never mind that the women using their services are perfectly aware of their legal status/situation, are choosing to use them freely and voluntarily, and that studies show homebirth with midwives is as safe as a hospital or safer for low-risk pregnancies.)

My sister-in-law is a vet, I'll have to keep her in mind if I ever need some treatment, LOL.

15 posted on 08/11/2009 6:30:42 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies

Your first comment is absolutely right. That’s why there should not be government health care.


16 posted on 08/11/2009 6:36:38 AM PDT by carton253 (Ask me about Throw Away the Scabbard - a Civil War alternate history.)
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To: Liberty1970
My sister-in-law is a vet, I'll have to keep her in mind if I ever need some treatment, LOL.

Yeah. I have a niece that's a vet. I can see her getting rich in the future, because she'll offer better health care to humans than the Socialist system would.

I see Holistic medicine being really big.

The old Soviet Union had all kinds of kook "doctors", from voodoo to trance states, to chanting, etc. I'll bet this is what America will be like in the next 10 years.

17 posted on 08/11/2009 6:38:34 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: concerned about politics

Obamacare: Abort the unborn, kill the old, save money, give money saved to Democrat constituents. Obama rules for life. Eat your heart out Hugo Chavez.


18 posted on 08/11/2009 6:40:36 AM PDT by Tarpon (The Joker's plan -- Slavery by debt so large it can never be repaid)
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To: cvq3842
I suspect a huge chunk of "healthcare costs" consists of all the endless paper-shuffling between insurance companies, hospitals, government agencies, etc. If we returned to a simple system of paying for healthcare such that only the customer and the medical provider were involved, the paperwork burden would drop dramatically and so would the costs involved. Paying millions of insurance workers, hospital administrators and government bureaucrats to move paper around and talk on the phone can't be cheap.

Seriously, the billing issues associated with healthcare are just insane. A few years ago another sister-in-law was looking for a new kidney and somehow I wound up as the leading donor candidate (despite her having 6 blood siblings, go figure). I had to go to a couple hospitals for extensive tests to determine our compatibility, and was assured all along by her transplant specialist that I wouldn't have to pay any of the bills, which of course makes sense. All the bills were supposed to go to my sister-in-law's account since it was all for her sake.

For the next 15 months I just got endless bills, re-submitted bills, and so on (up to the 6th and 7th iterations), for these tests. The transplant specialist was very friendly and patient and helpful every time I had to call her to try to get these taken care of, but I can't imagine the amount of time wasted by various people as they tried to get all their billing straightened out. There is no good reason for such messes.

19 posted on 08/11/2009 6:41:00 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: Liberty1970
So why should Person A (etc.) be forced to pay for Person B's bad choices??

Ridiculous argument. Why not ask: Why should childless couples pay school taxes.. etc

20 posted on 08/11/2009 6:42:30 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel (a government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you have)
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To: cvq3842
Good points. And in the past churches and other charities - the community - passed around the hat to help those truly in need.

Today, Americas problem is "want."
There are very few people who are actually in need. Trillions of dollars have been wasted on the democrat base's coveting of their neighbors goods.

21 posted on 08/11/2009 6:43:11 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: carton253
Yep!

The government has no more right to handle my health care than it does doing my grocery shopping, telling me where to live, or deciding what kind of work I must do.

Obama is a control freak!

22 posted on 08/11/2009 6:44:00 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (If the auto industry and banking were Obama's Austria and Czechoslovakia, healthcare is his Poland.)
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To: Liberty1970

I dont know whether the bulk of the costs are self-inflicted as so much of the expense comes with aging and in the last few years of people’s lives. But he is speaking a real truth here. Liberal elites simply wont deal with the facts. They refuse to get it.

The medical literature is filled with the evidence, such as low-income women who dont show up for prenatal care even if when it is free. There is widespread disinterest in screenings for all sorts of things from high blood pressure to breast cancer. First prize has to go to people who get organ transplants, dont take their anti-rejection medicine, reject the organ, then want another one.

Despite all this, RATS and even Republicans continue to believe that it’s just about money. The stupidity and ignorance are staggering.


23 posted on 08/11/2009 6:47:32 AM PDT by freespirited (The Surgeon General has determined that Harry and Louise are dangerous to your health.)
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To: MrsEmmaPeel
Why should childless couples pay school taxes.. etc

Why should they?

Of course, there are pros and cons to that question. As you may know, that is part of the reasoning behind the property tax exemption for the elderly.

24 posted on 08/11/2009 6:48:00 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (If the auto industry and banking were Obama's Austria and Czechoslovakia, healthcare is his Poland.)
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To: MrsEmmaPeel
So why should Person A (etc.) be forced to pay for Person B's bad choices?

Ridiculous argument.

Actually, it isn't.

If you are a good driver, why should you have to pay auto insurance rates similar to those for bad drivers?

25 posted on 08/11/2009 6:50:40 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (If the auto industry and banking were Obama's Austria and Czechoslovakia, healthcare is his Poland.)
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To: Liberty1970

A major point of socializing medicine is precisely that “objectionable behavior” comes under the domain of police-state governance and our polypragmatons (busybody governors*) get the satisfaction of FORCING people to mend their ways as lawmakers & regulators see fit.

Our would-be tyrants will find out the hard way getting between citizens and their vices is a very bad idea.

FWIW: I was informed I had high cholesterol. Changed my diet, dropped 20 pounds, and expect the next lipid test will turn out excellent. I am not pleased with the notion of my insurance payments (private or public) going to those not so inclined to make small changes with big health care savings. However, I am not inclined to _force_ them to mend their ways.

(* - as in those who govern, not as in state governors.)


26 posted on 08/11/2009 6:50:50 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Your opinion is doubleplusungoodthinkful. You have been reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.)
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To: Tarpon
Obamacare: Abort the unborn, kill the old, save money, give money saved to Democrat constituents. Obama rules for life.

Google "Hitlers Health Care" and see the similarities.
Stalin and Pol Pot also had their Universal Health Care packages. Today, the democrats are going to do the same thing - "for our own good."

27 posted on 08/11/2009 6:51:08 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: MrsEmmaPeel
Ridiculous argument. Why not ask: Why should childless couples pay school taxes.. etc

What is ridiculous about it? Here is an even better question: why should I be forced to pay school taxes given that my wife is homeschooling our three children? Why am I forced to support a system that actively preaches against my beliefs? Do you have any idea how offensive that is to me?

It's not as if government schools are "necessary". It is not even governments' job to educate children. That is a parental responsibility. The idea that other people should be forced to pay for my kids education is, again, stupid and evil.

28 posted on 08/11/2009 6:54:15 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: freespirited
First prize has to go to people who get organ transplants, dont take their anti-rejection medicine, reject the organ, then want another one.

Yeah, that was a major point of contention when I was being considered as a kidney donor. The SIL in question has made quite a few "bad choices" (although the kidney failure itself was not due to any of them, so far as I know). My wife was ready to make it REALLY clear to her sister that if she got my kidney, she was going to take real good care of it!

29 posted on 08/11/2009 6:57:46 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: cripplecreek
I wish I could go to the veterinarian for treatment.

If a patient is too sick the vet just puts them to sleep. Obamacare will do the same.

30 posted on 08/11/2009 7:07:27 AM PDT by Reeses (Leftism is powered by the evil force of envy.)
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To: MrsEmmaPeel

Bottom line - difference between taxes, which supposedly go for the ‘common good’, and insurance. Under single payer, we would all pay taxes for the ‘common good’ of ‘free health care’. Under insurance, you are supposed to have the option of reducing your costs by making smart decisions.


31 posted on 08/11/2009 7:15:06 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Liberty1970
Here is an even better question: why should I be forced to pay school taxes given that my wife is homeschooling our three children? Why am I forced to support a system that actively preaches against my beliefs? Do you have any idea how offensive that is to me?

Agreed. We had to do the same. We could have used the funds for our own children's education. Two are now in college, so we're doing more than our part for Americas future.

The government makes us pay everyone elses bills before we're allowed to use what's left to pay for our own. We pay for every welfare family before we even get our paychecks. If we pay our own bills first and give welfare what's left over instead, we're visited by the IRS.

32 posted on 08/11/2009 7:16:17 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Liberty1970

The “Great Society” welfare programs of the 1960’s are simply a way for the dhimms to maintain a permanent government-subsidized underclass of losers who take more and more from America’s producers and continue to vote for dhimms who keep them dependent.

I have no problem providing for the truly helpless but I sure do have a problem taking care of the truly clueless.

I work in an ER. A large percentage of our customers are covered by Medicaid. Many are unmarried females with multiple kids from multiple sperm donors who are so morbidly obese, tattooed, pierced, and nasty that I cannot comprehend any man with an ounce of self-respect having intercourse with them. Therein lies the problem. Welcome to the dhimmocratic vision of America.


33 posted on 08/11/2009 7:43:09 AM PDT by 43north (11.04.08: the day America committed voluntary suicide)
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To: Liberty1970

Excellent point.


34 posted on 08/11/2009 8:12:51 AM PDT by cvq3842 (Countless thousands of our ancestors died to give us the freedoms we have today. Stay involved!)
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To: concerned about politics

yes, and it also explains why the secular progresives want so desperately to get rid of religion in many aspects of public life.


35 posted on 08/11/2009 8:13:37 AM PDT by cvq3842 (Countless thousands of our ancestors died to give us the freedoms we have today. Stay involved!)
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To: Liberty1970
If I break my arm, why on earth should anyone else on the planet be forced to pay for it??

If you are insured then no one is forced to pay for it; the premium payers are voluntarily sharing the risks.

However if you are paying taxes (by threat and coercion) then, yes, you are forced to share the risks, and, no, that is improper.

36 posted on 08/11/2009 10:33:00 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Kenya? Kenya? Kenya just show us the birth certificate?)
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To: concerned about politics

At least public education CAN benefit the surrounding community, which is paying the taxes. Kids in school, especially a good school with good after-school activities, are less likely to be menaces to society. Until the government controls who gets to have kids and how many, so that we “know” that they are being trained at home to be upstanding citizens, unfortunately public education is a bit of a necessary evil. There should, however, be some sort of voucher system, since public schools obviously aren’t so much to educate anymore as they are a day care.

On the other hand, relating back on the original topic, public health care has no benefit to the community as a whole. The only way it would is with communicable diseases, and that is already taken care of with vaccine subsidies (which the government also can’t get right) and health classes in the public education system (including sex-ed).


37 posted on 08/21/2009 12:00:34 PM PDT by geminintj
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