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managerial situation: what did I do wrong?
conservativecave ^ | August 12, 2009 | franksolich

Posted on 08/12/2009 6:18:37 PM PDT by franksolich

A friend from a long time ago--just before the turn of the century--came up here to the Sandhills of Nebraska today, and we spent a long time reminiscencing about the Good Old Days of Reagan, Bush, Gingrich, and Bush, and speculating about when the 0bamareich's going to come crashing down.

He reminded me of something I long ago had forgotten, and having been reminded of it, an old question recrudesces to the surface. Where did I go wrong?

Back then, just before the turn of the century, I was records supervisor for a private contractor to Immigration & Naturalization, in Lincoln. There were usually 12-24 file clerks under my direction, sometimes a few more, but as they knew what they were doing, and going a great job, I mostly ignored them and "file searches" for persons of "interest" to Immigration & Naturalization, the Internal Revenue Service, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, whatnot.

And so it took a while--a few months--before I was aware that a guy working under my supervision was openly and profligately mocking me behind my back.

(Excerpt) Read more at conservativecave.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; History; Society
KEYWORDS: harassment; management
I hope this is of interest, because even with the passage of the years, I still can't figure out a better solution than the one I applied.
1 posted on 08/12/2009 6:18:38 PM PDT by franksolich
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To: HeadOn; bad company; Auntie Mame; buschbaby; tired1; Sir_Ed; Charles Henrickson; Purrcival; ...

Ping for the list.


2 posted on 08/12/2009 6:20:18 PM PDT by franksolich (Scourge of the Primitives, in service to humanity)
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To: franksolich

You should have challenged him to a duel.


3 posted on 08/12/2009 6:26:03 PM PDT by Krankor
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To: franksolich

The “reason” this was the “wrong resolution” is because your boss ended up having to get involved.

From their viewpoint the only “correct” behavior is that which requires no involvement on their part.


4 posted on 08/12/2009 6:26:10 PM PDT by G Larry ( Obamacare=Dying in Line!)
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To: franksolich

Time to move on, Frank. Why dwell on the past when there are bigger fish to fry these days.


5 posted on 08/12/2009 6:28:21 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: franksolich

Time to move on, Frank. Why dwell on the past when there are bigger fish to fry these days.


6 posted on 08/12/2009 6:28:45 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: franksolich
However, she never got around to telling me what the "right" resolution might be.

A) Fired him.
B) Bashed his face in.
C) Both.

This is because whether you know it or not all of you employees had lost all respect for you. This is why they went behind your back to your boss. Had I been your boss I probably would have given you a week to resolve the issue to my satisfaction and if you didn't I would have fired you.

7 posted on 08/12/2009 6:30:24 PM PDT by Eaker (The Two Loudest Sounds in the World.....Bang When it should have been Click and the Reverse.)
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To: franksolich

I would have said something to him like.

“Look, it doesn’t really bother me that you are mocking my voice behind my back. You could do it to my face, it doesn’t matter. The only problem is that it is p*ssing off other members in the office and creating unneeded strife and stress of our team. What is your real motivation for doing it? Can you find some other less obnoxious way to amuse yourself?”


8 posted on 08/12/2009 6:30:56 PM PDT by listenhillary (90% of our problems could be resolved with a government 10% of the size it is now.)
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To: franksolich
To be honest, being the vicious a-hole that I'm known for, I'd let him go in a very public and humiliating manner. Let him be an example of what NOT to do. Insubordination (even on the sly) should be swatted down quickly or it could take root. Then again, that's just how I am though.
9 posted on 08/12/2009 6:31:39 PM PDT by thescourged1
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To: G Larry

The “reason” this was the “wrong resolution” is because your boss ended up having to get involved. From their viewpoint the only “correct” behavior is that which requires no involvement on their part.”

Agreed, but without the tongue in cheek. As his manager, you probably should have canned him for some reason, real or manufactured - he was obviously a loon and not a team player - and he should have been given the boot, if not because he was “mocking” you, but screwing up morale and putting tension on the menu every day - assuming, of course, that yours was the “middle management” position, it was your job to manage him. Middle management is Chief of the Boat...you are supposed to keep the boneheads off the boat, while the Skipper manages operations.

You don’t mention the size of the company, the relationship to management, etc., but this is my best guess. A lot of middle managers would have done what you did...call it a question of style...but, in the scenario you describe in a small to medium size business, I think your boss might have felt let down by your not taking this nutcase out for a walk and dropping him off somewhere.

Time frame tells me there was no HR and no endless warnings required...all he needed was a Laurel and Hearty Handshake.

But I’ll tell you what, if this is the “big mistake” that you regret so much later, God bless you, you did a hell of a job...and I mean that!


10 posted on 08/12/2009 6:46:44 PM PDT by jessduntno (Privatization + Inter-State Sales + Individual Policies + Tort Reform = Healthcare Reform)
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To: franksolich

I’ve quit jobs because I couldn’t stand the people I was working with. They gave me agita. The best jobs were the ones where everyone did their work and got along with each other. Eight hours a day should be spent not only working but laughing too.

I would have voted him off the island.


11 posted on 08/12/2009 6:53:59 PM PDT by diefree
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To: franksolich
Pardon me for beng blunt, but you are clueless, managerially speaking.

Open contempt or ridicule must be dealt with directly and severely. You should have hauled this clown into a private office or conference room, told him you were aware of what he was doing, and that he would be fired if it ever happened again.

Problem solved (possibly) or groundwork laid for his later removal. Other employees would have taken note that you are not a fool and will not put up with this kind of crap. This would have made you seem aware and effective; these are good things.

I have been counseling supervisors and managers for 27 years, and I have heard this scenario many times before. My approach has worked every time, as far as I know.

12 posted on 08/12/2009 7:12:33 PM PDT by PackerBoy (Just my opinion ....)
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To: franksolich

1st time...make an obvious face-to-face acknowledgment. (If the guy’s having a bad day and isn’t a complete fool, this is usually sufficient for a “mea culpa” and cessation.)

2nd time...documented “come to Jesus” sit down. (Even the truly dense usually “get it” at this point that YOU are the boss and they are not)

3rd time...public ballistics and send him kicking stones pending future exit interview. (At this point, he’s no longer your problem, and just in case anyone else was thinking of “dissing the boss” without reprisals, the mold has been cast.)

...and confirm with HR that if asked by their next potential employer, “Would you rehire them?” the answer is an unequivocal NO, even if not otherwise prohibited by policy.

You did what you thought was best at the time and survived. Some days, that’s the best outcome possible. :)


13 posted on 08/12/2009 7:15:07 PM PDT by Sylvester McMonkey McBean
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To: franksolich

Sounds like you were in a position that you weren’t really qualified for. You couldn’t manage your employees.

Progressive discipline would probably have been:

informal verbal warning
written warning with signed acknowlegement
discharge

Your supervisor got to step 1 with you. You got lucky before she had to take the next steps.


14 posted on 08/12/2009 7:18:54 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: franksolich

When an employee is creating a disruptive or hostile work place, the employee needs to be (1) informed of the infraction in writing, (2) given definite parameters within which the issue is to be remedied (also in writing), and (3) have the parameters enforced within a specified time frame.

In this case, by ignoring the intransigence (which obviously was disruptive and hostile to your subordinates), you gave a tacit approval to the behavior.

Now, when rating the guy, you should have fairly rated the work he performed (as you said you did), but also noted the behavioral issue. Documenting the problem is a must, especially when an better-than-average-quality worker has a personality or behavior problem.

One more thought. I know it is sometimes tempting to say that mocking the boss is different than mocking co-workers. In some ways, it is. But a personal mockery of a boss (as opposed to questioning the boss’ policies or decisions - which can still cross the line) is simply antithetical to the maintenance of a positive workplace.

Just my $.02, of course.


15 posted on 08/12/2009 7:28:12 PM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: PAR35

In my post 15, I missed one step (the verbal warning). But I think you missed one too (the remedial plan).

Remedials on behavior issues tend to be pretty back-and-white, but are still generally necessary due to lawsuit-avoidance-syndrome on the part of HR.

Just my opinion, of course.


16 posted on 08/12/2009 7:31:31 PM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: franksolich

Your “cold silence” was the wrong approach.

You were the leader and you needed to lead. This individual undermined your authority as a leader. You should have had a meeting with your manager where you explained the situation, and laid out what you were going to do to remediate it. Then implemented this. TO allow a disruptive individual mock you, then they would be comfortable mocking or harassing others, as you said that they had done.

Sorry, but the cold silence, or kill them with kindness works in the short term but is not a long term solution.


17 posted on 08/12/2009 7:39:39 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (Democrats: the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy and Sedition)
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To: MortMan

Yes, I think you tagged it better than I did.


18 posted on 08/12/2009 7:41:42 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PackerBoy

Good solid advice!

I want to add to it mine own and then tell a story I had.

The manager wasn’t working for himself, he was a agent managing on behalf of an employer. The disrespect he allowed by ignoring it because it was to him, but it was also to his company, and even to his crew as a whole. I would say he had an obligation to his employer to mention the circumstance to his boss early on so that the employer had the opportunity to assent to a loss of respect for the sake of not provoking a greater discomfort or losing a worker who was otherwise productive.

Had, however the employer had said it was unimportant — the manager would still have the discretion to protect his own interest in it, his own tolerable boundary of respect, and rebuke the employee.

* * *

I hired a man with a severe speech impediment and a breathing problem — he would wheeze and sputter all day long. He was very good technically and and hard-worker with self-initiative. Initially he started in a room with another tech, who complained about the noise. I moved him into my office, which was quite large and otherwise empty. I grew up in a large family next to a kennel and a train station — noises I can tune out easily. We worked together very well.

But other workers in the company began to whisper and complain about his handicap. Even though he would rarely be in their area, just his passing through bothered them. A VP came to me and told me I should “let him go”. I said “No way! He’s a hard worker and he’s no in earshot of anyone most of the day. I understand the complaints, but the guy is a good worker. There’s no way I would ever think of firing him.”

A few weeks later he asked me again about it. Then a month later we both were called into the President’s office, one at a time and fired.

I told him I thought he had a good case to sue, but it was a matter of personal embarrassment to him and he was used to rejection for his handicap. Here, when I hired him he thought his world had finally changed for the better! He was so proud of the job. His father was able to take him in as a lower paid tech, his father’s business small small and sporadic.

I had failed to protect him. I let him down. To see him so happy, and then see his hopes thrown down off a cliff I placed him on ... and now to him, it was as if he had taken me with him ... that was the worst of all of it.

The truth is I was fired because I had my own problems there, at least I hadn’t earned enough attaboys and such to be able to deflect those who complained about him.

Truth is, that company failed and bankrupted about two years later, and employee morale turned incredibly bitter and destructive for a good part of that time after we left so we both didn’t sink on that ship, or take on greater wounds, but still ...

What should I have done?


19 posted on 08/12/2009 7:46:33 PM PDT by bvw
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To: franksolich
frank, I read through all of the replies and they were all the standard opinions of those WHO COULD HEAR!

Being someone who is hearing impaired herself and working in cube world, I can tell you that you did the right thing as a hearing impaired person, but the wrong thing for those who can hear.

I have had the same issue, altho I am not in management. People know I can't hear and they do nothing to adjust to my hearing problem. I am ridiculed by people, and I know it, but I take the high ground and just ignore the jerks.

BUT! as a caveat, when I hear it over and over again, I get pissed and let them know that they are being an ass.

So, speaking as someone who know both sides, I would have called the jerk in, informed him how unprofessional he was being and if the behavior continues, you will take it to the next level.

Having said this, since it appears to have happened sometime in the past, let it go. Ain't no use worrying over those who don't care.

20 posted on 08/12/2009 7:49:55 PM PDT by misharu (US Congress = children without adult supervision)
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To: franksolich
It's water under the bridge but since you asked...I think you were wrong to ignore it (or give him the cold silent treatment) because of the tone it set around the office. Because you did nothing about the way he treated you, you may never know if others were similarly mistreated by this employee and were too discouraged (by your example) to come forward with a complaint.

It may not have bothered you enough to report or dismiss him, but would you have been bothered if he had done it to another employee? I'm sure you would have stood up for anyone else treated this way but your actions maybe have given a very different impression.

Don't let it bother you anymore, though.

21 posted on 08/12/2009 7:52:31 PM PDT by TNdandelion (I'd rather have FedEx run my healthcare than USPS.)
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To: franksolich

As I posted at CC, I suspect your boss wanted you to infer what she wanted you to do (terminate him). That way she’s out of the loop and it’s your baby. After all, she was being stalked and likely worried about the possibility of retribution after the firing.

As for your handling of the situation, it would have been better to confront the man and let it be known in no uncertain terms that his actions were unacceptable. Such things are very disruptive and breed on others. Also, others don’t like a negative environment and aren’t happy at work. It’s best to take things in hand and end them quickly.


22 posted on 08/13/2009 4:07:09 AM PDT by bcsco (Obama Administration: The Whizzers of Oz)
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To: franksolich

I don’t think you really did anything “wrong”, Frank. It’s more a matter of personal style.

I have little patience for idiots, and I would have asked him how funny he thought his little act would be in the unemployment line, but hey - that’s just me. I wouldn’t have fired him right away, but it wouldn’t have taken more than a couple more incidents of insubordination...

Seems you have a bit more self-control than I have. :-)


23 posted on 08/13/2009 8:43:40 AM PDT by HeadOn (If you want to know what the libs are up to, see what they are accusing conservatives of doing!)
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To: franksolich

You say that this person was doing above-average work, but it seems to me that acting professionally, or at least in a civil enough fashion to get along with co-workers, IS part of his work. And by ignoring it you unnecessarily allowed him to create a more stressful/uncomfortable work environment (as evidenced by your other employees’ complaints).


24 posted on 08/13/2009 8:52:30 AM PDT by Sloth (Irony: Freepers who call Ron Paul a "nut" but swallow all the birth certificate conspiracy crap.)
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To: franksolich

I was involved in a similar situation, I gave his entire family smallpox infected blankets.


25 posted on 08/13/2009 8:55:35 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: bvw

Was that pre-ADA? Sounds like an open-and-shut disability discrimination case.


26 posted on 08/13/2009 8:59:51 AM PDT by Sloth (Irony: Freepers who call Ron Paul a "nut" but swallow all the birth certificate conspiracy crap.)
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To: Sloth

It was the late 80’s. But the young man did not want to pursue it — I talked with about it a few times. I negotiated a small severance for myself which had me sign away any claim.


27 posted on 08/13/2009 9:06:36 AM PDT by bvw
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To: HeadOn; bcsco; bad company
Seems you have a bit more self-control than I have.

My deal is, how was my reaction any different from this idea of letting God take care of something?

As you can see from my comments over at conservativecave, I wasn't aware of a whole lot that was going on; the situation was, to say the least, ambiguous. When groping through the darkness, one does what one can, and as already noted over there, I personally have found cold silence to be an excellent, a great, a wonderful, modifier of behavior. It's just that in this case it didn't work, a rare or unique exception to the rule.

And, as usual, God and time and chance did take care of it. I probably drove the guy even more nuts, by my ignoring this aspect of his behavior, as if it didn't exist. And then he overstepped somewhere, made some sort of stupid mistake (probably involving the other supervisor), and whmmmmp! law-enforcement came down on him.

And during subsequent years, while this guy was locked up in the state insane asylum, the woman supervisor went on to a better job in Denver, and I myself about a year later, on to a better-paying job in Lincoln.

28 posted on 08/13/2009 11:46:59 AM PDT by franksolich (Scourge of the Primitives, in service to humanity)
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To: franksolich
My deal is, how was my reaction any different from this idea of letting God take care of something?

That applies to personal relationships (to a small degree), responses to illness and catastrophe, and such, but not to dealing with employees. As a supervisor/manager, you're being paid to handle people at their workplace. It's what you get paid to do, among other things. Ignoring a deteriorating situation (letting God handle it...) is not advisable.

I personally have found cold silence to be an excellent, a great, a wonderful, modifier of behavior.

Same answer as above. Supervisor/managers are paid to get involved and settle thorny issues. That's why they get the "big bucks" (comparatively speaking, of course).

Had you gotten involved and reprimanded the employee doesn't mean it would work either. Progress is up to him, after all. But it would mean your making use of the tools at your command as supervisor/manager, and doing the job expected of you. Sure passive reaction to unpleasant situations works at times. But in management, it's not the way to go.

29 posted on 08/13/2009 11:57:03 AM PDT by bcsco (Obama Administration: The Whizzers of Oz)
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To: franksolich
Well, here is the start of the problem right here.

I'm not sure what "authority" I had; this private contractor was micro-managed by touchy-feely women.

I've been in supervisory positions where the boss would set down parameters for me to follow, they would go home and leave me alone to follow their instructions. Something better be on fire before I call him at home and I watched those businesses run smoothly and truck the money in the door by the bushels. I've been an interested bystander (supervisor) where the indecision and cowardice of micro-managers ran businesses into the ground.

Micro-managers lack confidence not only in their underlings, but themselves also. They lack the ability to formulate a plan of action and coherently convey that idea to those they are in charge of. This leaves those that work for them unsure of where they fit into the workplace. Chaos will reign.

Look at Obama and his interference into that dustup between that cop and that dingaling. Micro-management. Then look at the recent Billie Jean King debacle and the Queens DVD goof up. Chaos.

30 posted on 08/13/2009 2:16:41 PM PDT by bad company (How much easier is self-sacrifice than self-realization)
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