Skip to comments.Agog over Bush's comments on Gog and Magog
Posted on 08/13/2009 12:07:59 PM PDT by P.O.E.
Incredibly, President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible's satanic agents of the Apocalypse.
Honest. This isn't a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.
Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their "common faith" (Christianity) and told him:
"Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. ... The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. ... This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins."
This bizarre -- seemingly deranged -- episode happened while the White House was assembling its "coalition of the willing" to unleash the Iraq invasion. Chirac says he was boggled by Bush's call, and "wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs."
(Excerpt) Read more at wvgazette.com ...
Amazing how the left needs to bash Bush (makes a convenient distraction from health care, I suppose)
I suspect Chirac had his face buried in his mistress’ chest at the time and didn’t hear things correctly....
And we are to believe Chirac because...?
Another top secret conversation revealed by an out-of-office loser.
I miss President Bush...I never knew how much I would miss his solid leadership. I felt safe and never once did I worry about losing our freedoms.
No way no how. Totally out of character. Bush was convinced about the need for aggressive war on terror, but he was a geopolitical pragmatist.
Nice to see W is a fan of Joel Rosenberg’s novels.
You are always going to have some derranged fool saying BS like this but the real question is why the media publishes it.
Also, Dwight Eisenhower repeatedly referred to the Nazi forces as “Huns” during the Second World War. Even though everybody knows that actual Huns hadn’t been heard from for over 1000 years. Honest. I am not making this up.
Me too. I try not to think about what would happen if (God forbid) we had a serious security threat nowadays. I guess we'd just apologize.
I don’t believe this for a second. I don’t even believe that Chirac said it. I think some writer is just making stuff up.
I find this story highly unlikely anyway, but the very notion that we (the US) have the duty to try to stop Gog and Magog, or that we are even capable of doing anything to impede the coming Armageddon, is preposterous.
God’s plans are not alterable.
I smell BS. Why?
Because Gog and Magog are predicted in the Bible. That means (for a believer) it will happen. It is just a matter of time. Humans can’t prevent it.
Bush saying “We’ve got to stop Gog and Magog” would be the same as him saying “We’ve got to twart God’s prophecies.”
Don’t see it.
1) I’m pretty sure President Bush knows his Bible better than this.
2) How would this qualify as “deranged”? Because the writer doesn’t believe the Bible?
I never did understand the “Hun” thing...
Calling the Germans ‘the Hun’ was common currency. For instance: Churchill did, most people in Britain did.
Completely unexceptional amongst the Anglophone Allies.
The author insists on using the terms “bizarre” and “deranged” as if they were somehow a given. If Bush had said the Four Horsemen were riding I don’t think anyone reasonable would look literally for four guys on horseback. There’s this wonderful linguistic construct called “metaphor” and it generally isn’t all that difficult to understand when somebody is using one. It is, however, easy to misrepresent if you want to make them look stupid.
If anyone thinks only conservatives wear tin foil hats this story should give then pause.
Were the comments originally reported by African Press International?
“1) Im pretty sure President Bush knows his Bible better than this.”
I doubt it. The man repeatedly said stupid, even blasphemous things like “Christians and Jews and Muslims all worship the same god”, and that there are many different ways to salvation, etc.
What a crock.
Everybody often refered to the Germans as huns...
An oft use phrase for pilots in both WWs that served as a warning to look out for attacking German coming in from above was “beware the hun in the sun”...
So this is no big deal.
Hillary used to channel Eleanor Roosevelt when she lived at the White House. What wonderful African country is she in today? Is Zimbabwe tomorrow?
“I felt safe and never once did I worry about losing our freedoms.”
Well then you obviously are not familiar with the Patriot Act.
This POS document takes away plenty of freedoms...all in the name of security. What else?
Well, someone should ask Mr. Bush. He is an honest man.
I think the Germans were the ones who started the Hun thing, using the label of themselves. Of course they have no biological relationship to the ancient Huns (other than that some Germanic tribes in the fifth century were subjects of the Huns).
The author is the editor of the Charleston Gazette, which makes you wonder about the rest of his paper.
So, you think Bible prophecies author, the lord himself, is a deranged fool?
This is reference to the rise of the 4th and final persian empire, from which the anti-Christ himself comes.
The other "deranged fool" trying to create the Muslim version of events is Iran's Amadinajad, or whatever his name is, by creating the event which is supposed to bring the lost Imam out of his well (the anti christ).
Well..., in reading this...
Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their “common faith” (Christianity) and told him:
“Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. ... The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. ... This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins.”
This bizarre — seemingly deranged — episode happened while the White House was assembling its “coalition of the willing” to unleash the Iraq invasion. Chirac says he was boggled by Bush’s call, and “wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs.”
[ ... ]
Recently, GQ magazine revealed that former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld attached warlike Bible verses and Iraq battle photos to war reports he hand-delivered to Bush. One declared: “Put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground.”
It’s awkward to say openly, but now-departed President Bush is a religious crackpot, an ex-drunk of small intellect who “got saved.” He never should have been entrusted with power to start wars.
I have to say that I’m pleased to find out, now, that President Bush actually knew about the Gog/Magog war of Ezekiel 38/39. I was doubtful that he knew of the Bible’s prophecies and/or took them into consideration. Apparently he did know something of them, and apparently (also) took them into consideration.
However, I’m still doubtful that President Bush may have fully understood them or was as appreciative of their certainty as those who know that God means what He says — are certain of them.
It would pay for more of our legislators and government officials to understand and be appreciative of what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob says about the events over there in the land of Israel and the surrounding nations.
I can’t fully understand (from this little snippet) exactly what President Bush did understand about the Gog/Magog War (as that is coming up in the near future), so I would want to know more of his understanding about it, before I would want to comment more on what he said. But, just the fact that he *mentioned it* is amazing, showing that he knew *something* about it. That’s probably a lot more than other Presidents... LOL...
I am in DEEP FAVOR of the PATRIOT ACT! I do not consider privacy issues banged on when used for security against terrorists as wrongful...I consider it NECESSARY and I want telephone calls that flow from suspected terrorists monitored. You bet I do.
My son, Mr. Seminary trained theologian, said the same thing....we all worship the same god...until I slapped the stupid out of him and actually made him read the koran. There are a lot of Christians with good intentions that believe that because they are simply ignorant of the facts, and sometimes of their own religion. I have a muslim co-worker who argued with me over something I said was in the koran and he swore it was not - until I showed him. He was actually pretty upset by it.
I’ve heard similar things he’s said by seemingly credible sources. I forget now what they were. Even if Pres. Bush did say this, it was in a context that has now been lost. I thought the left was so much into context? Taking it out of context easily changes the meaning of what he may (or may not) have been saying. This is a desperate attempt at a smear from the left.
You said — Amazing how the left needs to bash Bush (makes a convenient distraction from health care, I suppose)
Actually, I find that quite enlightening and I’m quite pleased to hear that President Bush even considered the Gog/Magog invasion of the Middle East in his considerations in regards to war in Iraq. I haven’t heard that before and I’m glad to hear that now.
So, I’ll have to thank them for bringing that information out (although I read that it was brought up earlier... but I didn’t see it...).
If those people who brought it up want to use that information as a “negative” piece of news, I — on the other hand — use that as a “positive” piece of news, something that I didn’t know about President Bush, beforehand...
You said — I suspect Chirac had his face buried in his mistress chest at the time and didnt hear things correctly....
Well..., I don’t care where one has their face “stuffed”... it’s very difficult to mishear that kind of information. I mean, outside of the Bible and the prophecy preachers and those who believe that God means what He says, when talking about Israel and the surrounding nations — you simply *do not* get this type of information *anywhere else* — other than from the prophecy of the Bible, and the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
I’m sure that Chirac heard that very accurately. It probably caught him off-guard and surprised him. It should, that a President of the United State would actually *pay attention* to what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob says, and think that it actually means something in “real life”...
I doubt that Jacques Chirac knew what Gog and Magog are or understood the reference; and that if Bush tried somehow to explain it to him, through a translator to boot, Bush’s meaning would no doubt have been lost on Chirac.
(And hence, Chirac’s recall of the conversation would have been garbled.)
Him and other UN types are pretty fanatical in their faith in humanistic beliefs, too. They have a blind spot there, and are never called on it. Believing the Bible, that man's origins are ultimately from God and mediately a mystery, is every bit as valid as believing that the earth - indeed the universe - arose spontaneously and developed through unguided random processes. In fact, the more humble biblical view is easily the more plausible.
As far as Gog and Magog goes - I wish President Bush had not said that to the French leader, since it presupposes a particular subset of prophetical interpretation.
Er, one can come to different conclusions about what the Bible means, or even its relationship with ones religious beliefs, while knowing it thoroughly.
I suspect that my Catholic high school religious seminar instructors (among millions of others, our present Pope among them) would have had a very different take on the points you raise.
You said — And we are to believe Chirac because...?
I believe it, because you just can’t make this kind of stuff up... and it “fits” actually, in connection with what I had heard from other pastors and preachers, at the time, who said they were trying to let President Bush know about the prophecies of the Bible, that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has given (which He confirms will happen) — and so help President Bush understand the situation that he was in, in connection with what the Bible says.
This means to me, that several of those pastors/teachers/preachers actually “got through” to Bush and he did understand, at least some of it.
I do not trust Chirac. I do not trust a newspaper of this era. I do trust Mr. Bush.
Clearly, you aren't familiar with the prophesy surrounding Armageddon.
It would be pretty hard to give you a crash course here, but you can read this and get a good idea what end time prophecy is all about, and how it relates to whats going on today, what "gog and Magog" really means etc.
Bush wasn't nuts, but clearly Chiraq's Christianity isn't up to snuff.
A very likely explanation.
Its often hard to use an analogy or allusion across cultural gaps. Its easy to miss getting a meaning across.
One of G.W.Bush’s problems was that he did indeed lack much experience in foreign affairs, or speaking with foreigners other than Mexicans.
Our present President seems to be even worse in this respect.
I didn’t say it can’t be true. I simply said Chirac’s just another of many out-of-office hacks who’s resorted to “tell-all” tactics. And I find as much credibility in such “sources” as I do the stump in my neighbor’s yard.
The facts may be true. But I’ll retain an honest skepticism based on the source.
Sorry, Jacques Chirac is not a credible source on this.
Well, then....I guess Chirac has missed all the Islamic fanatic hyjinx during his lifetime. He must believe in the John Kerry approach: It's just a nuisance.
You said — I doubt that Jacques Chirac knew what Gog and Magog are or understood the reference; and that if Bush tried somehow to explain it to him, through a translator to boot, Bushs meaning would no doubt have been lost on Chirac.
(And hence, Chiracs recall of the conversation would have been garbled.)
I doubt that Chirac knew, too — but then again, the article indicates that, which is why Chirac asked for some research into it.
After the 2003 call, the puzzled French leader didn’t comply with Bush’s request. Instead, his staff asked Thomas Romer, a theologian at the University of Lausanne, to analyze the weird appeal. Dr. Romer explained that the Old Testament book of Ezekiel contains two chapters (38 and 39) in which God rages against Gog and Magog, sinister and mysterious forces menacing Israel. Jehovah vows to smite them savagely, to “turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws,” and slaughter them ruthlessly. In the New Testament, the mystical book of Revelation envisions Gog and Magog gathering nations for battle, “and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”
Now, *just the fact* that Bush mentioned “Gog and Magog” — that’s all the context you need, because that’s about that area of the world and the battle that is coming up. So, this article is not really telling me a lot about Chirac, but more about President Bush, and that others had been able to “reach him” in getting President Bush to understand what the Bible says about the God/Magog War of Ezekiel 38/39, which is coming up in the near future.
And, actually, things are shaping up, in the world situation and the nation alliances over there, for that coming Gog/Magog war.
I run into that problem all the time. it's truely amazing how many muslims don't know what the Koran and Mohammad's hadith (says) really say.
This is largely because they learn to recite the koran in Arabic, even though it's not their language. You can turn the koran upside down for most Imams, and they wouldn't know the difference. The entire Koran is memorized.