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Koufax is still blowing us away
The Washington Times ^ | September 6, 2009 | Dick Heller

Posted on 09/06/2009 12:03:02 PM PDT by EveningStar

"On the scoreboard in right field, it is 9:46 p.m. in the City of the Angels, Los Angeles, California. And a crowd of 29,139 [has seen] the only pitcher in baseball history to hurl four no-hit, no-run games. ... And now he caps it. On his fourth no-hitter, he made it a perfect game."

The date was Sept. 9, 1965, and it seemed appropriate that Vin Scully, the best baseball broadcaster since World War II, was telling the world that Sandy Koufax, the most dominant pitcher of that period, had achieved the ultimate...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Sports
KEYWORDS: 1965; baseball; dodgers; koufax; losangeles; mlb; perfectgame; sandykoufax; vinscully
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Audio of Scully anouncing the 9th inning of Koufax's perfect game
1 posted on 09/06/2009 12:03:03 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: The Spirit Of Allegiance

SoCal


2 posted on 09/06/2009 12:03:43 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar

I vividly remember listening to Vinnie’s radio call, while standing in our darkened kitchen leaning over the radio. Biggest goosebumps ever!


3 posted on 09/06/2009 12:12:58 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God is, and (2) God is good?)
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To: EveningStar

Compared to Nolan Ryan’s 7 no-hitters......not too close.


4 posted on 09/06/2009 12:14:21 PM PDT by San Jacinto (/i)
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To: EveningStar

I saw Sandy pitch so many times and was there for his first no-hitter against the Mets. Remarkable is not a strong enough word for him. And he is a man of character.


5 posted on 09/06/2009 12:15:18 PM PDT by doug from upland (10+ million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: EveningStar

True to his faith, Koufax did not pitch the opening game of a world series on a Jewish high holiday.


6 posted on 09/06/2009 12:18:24 PM PDT by doug from upland (10+ million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: San Jacinto
From the article:

Nolan Ryan eventually pitched nearly twice as many no-hitters, won 324 games to Koufax's 165 and struck out 5,714 batters to Sandy's 2,396. But the rubber-armed Ryan lasted for 27 seasons and 5,386 innings. Koufax, a notably erratic spot starter in his early years with the Brooklyn and L.A. Dodgers, pitched in the big leagues for just 12 seasons and 2,324 1/3 innings.

7 posted on 09/06/2009 12:25:01 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: San Jacinto
Both are two of the best,...the article commemorates Koufax's 4th no-hitter.

I'm certain that Ryan would give Sandy his props, as well. In fact, I'd bet he has.




8 posted on 09/06/2009 12:36:16 PM PDT by incredulous joe ("Live Free or Fight")
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To: San Jacinto

“Compared to Nolan Ryan’s 7 no-hitters...... not too close.”

Nolan Ryan’s lifetime W-L record was 324-292. For some reason Ryan frequently pitched just well enough to lose.

Ryan belongs in the Hall of Fame, but in my opinion he did not merit his first-ballot 98.8% vote. Sports are primarily about winning, and while Ryan was often a spectacular pitcher, overall he was only marginally a winner.

After pitching a complete-game shutout in game 5 of the 1965 World Series against the Minnesota Twins, Sandy Koufax, pitching on two days rest, threw a 3-hit complete-game shutout in game 7. At his peak, Sandy was possibly the most valuable player in the history of baseball. The year after he retired, the Dodgers finished seventh; the year before it had been first.

“We need just two players to be a contender. Just Babe Ruth and Sandy Koufax.” Whitey Herzog


9 posted on 09/06/2009 12:57:49 PM PDT by devere
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To: San Jacinto
Compared to Nolan Ryan’s 7 no-hitters......not too close.

Compared to Sandy Koufax's perfect game...not too close
10 posted on 09/06/2009 1:40:01 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: doug from upland; San Jacinto; Artemis Webb; ken5050
I've been following baseball for close to 50 years, and I've never seen a better pitcher than Sandy Koufax. The combination of his fastball and curveball made him just unhittable. I remember games at Wrigley Field when Koufax pitched, and not only would it boost attendance, people would come down by the Dodgers' bullpen just to watch him warm up.

I saw Ryan pitch, too, but he was not as good as Koufax. Over the last 50 years, I'd put Koufax, Carlton, Gibson, and Seaver ahead of Ryan.

11 posted on 09/06/2009 2:09:16 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (The wag tailoring the doggerel)
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To: Charles Henrickson
I saw Ryan pitch, too, but he was not as good as Koufax. Over the last 50 years, I'd put Koufax, Carlton, Gibson, and Seaver ahead of Ryan.

I've been following baseball for over 50 years and who can say for sure which was the best behind Koufax which I'll agree was the best. I saw Ryan pitch as an Angel, and as an Astro and numerous times as a Ranger. Putting him behind Carlton, Gibson and Seaver...no way. The ultimate is the no-hitter....which really levels the playing field so to speak and Ryan is far ahead in that measure...as well as total wins.

12 posted on 09/06/2009 2:21:21 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ("To be born into freedom is an accident; to die in freedom is an obligation..)
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To: Charles Henrickson

Here’s my test, Charles. If you pick one pitcher in his prime to win a ballgame for you, who is it? Once Koufax got control, he was an almost unhittable machine.


13 posted on 09/06/2009 2:36:14 PM PDT by doug from upland (10+ million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: EveningStar; GOPsterinMA; IndyTiger; henkster; JerseyJohn61; TennTuxedo; Mr_Moonlight; BatGuano; ...
BASEBALL PING LIST

If you would like to be on the ping list let me know.

This will be a medium volume ping list during the baseball season and a low volume ping list when all life stops in late October.

14 posted on 09/06/2009 2:42:29 PM PDT by Artemis Webb
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To: BluesDuke

This thread is calling for your expertise darling!

Are you going to be broadcasting tomorrow night, or are you taking the holiday? ;D


15 posted on 09/06/2009 2:44:09 PM PDT by Daffynition (A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.)
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To: devere

Re Nolan Ryan. If a guy can pitch 7 no-hitters, he doesn’t have to do anything else. He can shoot an umpire and still go into the hall.


16 posted on 09/06/2009 2:45:43 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport, and school records.)
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To: EveningStar

I rember Scvully describing Koufaz’s curve as rooling off the table. When I went to a game, I could swear his curve started above the batter’s head and wound up in the catcher’s mitt just below the knees.


17 posted on 09/06/2009 2:47:48 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport, and school records.)
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To: Charles Henrickson; RVN Airplane Driver; doug from upland
"I'd put Koufax, Carlton, Gibson, and Seaver ahead of Ryan."

Greg Maddux fits in here somewhere. I'm just not sure where as he was from a totally different mold than the rest of the group. Still 355 career wins and 18 gold gloves speaks for itself.

18 posted on 09/06/2009 2:49:09 PM PDT by Artemis Webb
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To: BluesDuke

Sorry, I meant Monday night. I shouldn’t be wishing this long weekend away so fast!


19 posted on 09/06/2009 2:50:32 PM PDT by Daffynition (A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.)
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To: devere

Nolan Ryan spent a lot of time on some pretty bad teams...

hh


20 posted on 09/06/2009 2:59:13 PM PDT by hoosier hick (Note to RINOs: We need a choice, not an echo....Barry Goldwater)
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To: hoosier hick

Sandy Koufax was my boyhood hero! I got to see him when he came to LA. Along with Maury Wills and Don Drysdale!


21 posted on 09/06/2009 3:05:34 PM PDT by TPartyType
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To: EveningStar

Most people don’t remember that when Koufax pitched his perfect game, his opponent, Cubs pitcher Bobby Hendley, pitched a one hitter. The final score was 1-0


22 posted on 09/06/2009 3:07:44 PM PDT by shortstop (General Petraeus in 2012.)
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To: doug from upland

“If you pick one pitcher in his prime to win a ballgame for you, who is it?”

Dodger manager Walter Alston made that decision in the 1965 World Series, and decided Koufax on two days rest was a better bet to pitch game seven than Hall-of-Famer Don Drysdale on three. The result was a 2-0 Dodger victory, and drew this comment from Minnesota manager Sam Miele:

“If anyone would like to make the World Series the best five out of nine games I would be willing to go on with it right now. But Koufax is murder. Great! The best I believe I have ever seen. You hate to lose, but we didn’t disgrace ourselves. We were beaten by the best pitcher that there is anywhere.”


23 posted on 09/06/2009 3:19:27 PM PDT by devere
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To: shortstop

“Most people don’t remember that when Koufax pitched his perfect game, his opponent, Cubs pitcher Bobby Hendley, pitched a one hitter. The final score was 1-0”

And the only run scoredwas unrelated to the hit. It is still I believe the only nine-inning game in major league history with only one hit in total by both teams.


24 posted on 09/06/2009 3:21:47 PM PDT by devere
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To: devere
Nolan Ryan’s lifetime W-L record was 324-292. For some reason Ryan frequently pitched just well enough to lose.

Ryan belongs in the Hall of Fame, but in my opinion he did not merit his first-ballot 98.8% vote. Sports are primarily about winning, and while Ryan was often a spectacular pitcher, overall he was only marginally a winner.

What follows is the absolute best analysis I have ever seen of where Nolan Ryan absolutely belongs in the pantheon; it is from a book in which he was ranked as the 25th greatest pitcher of all time, and that was pending the conclusion of Tom Glavine's and Randy Johnson's careers, both of which should push Ryan a notch or three further down. (Juan Marichal is ranked number 21 in the same book's ranking---behind Three-Finger Brown, behind Ed Walsh, behind Gaylord Perry, behind Jim Palmer, behind Robin Roberts, behind Bob Gibson, behind Steve Carlton, behind Greg Maddux---and this is absolutely nuts. Juan Marichal was several times the pitcher those guys were, and I guarantee you that had it not been for the contemporary presence of a fellow named Koufax, it would have been Juan Marichal winning the one-across-the-board Cy Young Awards that Koufax owned.)
The mystique of Nolan Ryan was based on two things. First, the other players were somewhat in awe of Ryan. The hitters were in awe of him because they couldn't hit him; the pitchers were in awe of him because they understood how difficult it was to do what he did.

Second, while Ryan certainly was not the greatest pitcher of his time, he was one of the most unusual pitchers of his time. Ryan tried to throw unhittable pitches, one after another, even to weak hitters, even when he was behind in the count. The "ease up and let the fielders do their work" software had never been installed on his machine. From the beginning of his career to the end, a Nolan Ryan game featured strikeouts, walks, and very few hits.

This could be perceived in two ways. On the one hand, it could be perceived as a "no compromises" position, that Ryan never gave in to the hitter, even in situations where any other pitchers would have. But on the other hand, it could be seen as a sort of permanent compromise. Ryan was saying to the hitters, in essence, "You can have a walk if you want, but I'm not giving you anything to hit." Giving the hitter the walk, in some eyes, was enough.

Sportswriters have portrayed Ryan as either a heroic pitcher who never compromised, or as a pitcher who was constitutionally compromised. But because Ryan was so respected by the other athletes, the option of portraying him as constitutionally compromised was shut off to sportswriters, who were unwilling to present Ryan in a manner that might not have set well with the other players. Sportswriters---not all of them, but many of them---often seemed to be anxious to send the message back to the athletes that "We get it; we understand. We understand how remarkable Ryan really is, and we would never portray him any other way."

But the other option, the option of portraying Ryan as a very flawed pitcher, was quite obvious, and loomed like an elm tree over all discussions of Nolan Ryan. And this led to a lot of nonsensical information being generated on behalf of Ryan---for example, sportswriters would write that Ryan added ten thousand fans to the gate every time he pitched, when in reality five hundred fans was a generous estimate, or point out that between 1972 and 1978 Ryan was 107-1 or something when he entered the eighth inning with a lead (which is a meaningless stat, because managers never allow a starting pitcher to lose the game in the late innings. Everybody wins almost all his decisions when entering the eighth inning with a lead, because if you're going to lose that game you'll let the bullpen do it).

The struggle between these two views of Ryan propelled him out of the class of ordinary players, and lifted his image to a plateau beyond. Ryan has been retired almost ten years; in another ten, perhaps we will begin to get a little bit of perspective about him. Ryan's log of accomplishments is as thick as Bill Clinton's little black book; his list of flaws and failures is lengthy but dry, and will never make for good reading. He rates as well as he does here, in part, because my method compares a pitcher to zero; he ranks not nearly as well if he is compared to the average.

---Bill James, from The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract. (New York: Free Press/Simon and Schuster, 2001.)

I don't mean to deny that Ryan was a great pitcher. But Sandy Koufax was better. So were quite a few other guys, including some whom Ryan faced early and later in his career.
25 posted on 09/06/2009 3:37:33 PM PDT by BluesDuke (The waste is a terrible thing to mind . . .)
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To: EveningStar

I saw Koufax pitch once. It was 1964 in LA. Koufax was having a fabulous season but that game may have been one of the worst he ever pitched.

At one point he threw the ball about 10 feet over the batter’s head. The batter didn’t move. He and the catcher and the umpire just watched the ball arc over them.

Koufax just stood there, shoulders slumped. He muttered some unprintable prose. Then he laughed. The batter and the catcher and the umpire laughed. Then the crowd roared with laughter and gave Koufax a standing “O”.


26 posted on 09/06/2009 3:40:02 PM PDT by choirboy
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To: Daffynition
Are you going to be broadcasting tomorrow night, or are you taking the holiday? ;D
I'm still broadcasting Monday night. Somebody's got to do it! Besides, I have to labour until I nail down some serious sponsors. After which, well, I'll keep labouring anyway (believe it or not, I actually do work about forty hours a week to do this show; I actually do write scripts, produce appropriate sound . . . but then I only allow one readthrough---I learned a lesson from Goodman Ace, who only liked to do one readthrough before going on the air with Easy Aces because he wanted it to sound natural and not "acting," and I've found that to be absolutely vital when you're doing the kind of comedy that I do, where the whole meaning of the humour is even more important than getting a big laugh)---it's my love as well as my coming living.

Here's last week's show, in case you missed it . . .

The Kallmanac: The Mother-in-Lawsuit; Cash for the Cabbie (31 August 2009)

27 posted on 09/06/2009 3:46:42 PM PDT by BluesDuke (The waste is a terrible thing to mind . . .)
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To: shortstop
Most people don’t remember that when Koufax pitched his perfect game, his opponent, Cubs pitcher Bobby Hendley, pitched a one hitter. The final score was 1-0

I remember. I listened to the entire game live. I wish I'd been there in person, though.

28 posted on 09/06/2009 3:56:14 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: BluesDuke

Awesome!

Thank you for the new link!

You’re sounding great! Hope the sponsors come rolling in!


29 posted on 09/06/2009 5:05:19 PM PDT by Daffynition (A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.)
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To: EveningStar
Thanks for the memories, though I've only heard the ninth inning on tape.

Not much comment on Sandy's life nowadays. As always he seems to be very discreet about his public appearances, and he should be respected for wanting to remain as private as possible. He always thought that the public made too big a thing over his athletic prowess.

30 posted on 09/06/2009 5:08:03 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: doug from upland
...his first no-hitter against the Mets.

First inning went: strike one, strike two, strike three; strike one, strike two, strike three; strike one, strike two, strike three. Three strikeouts on nine pitches! (Wouldn't want to take anything away from Koufax by mentioning that that Mets team was one of the worst in major league history.)

31 posted on 09/06/2009 5:13:30 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: justiceseeker93

This is exactly how I remember him. He thought of himself as using his whole frame to "catapult" the ball.

32 posted on 09/06/2009 5:20:31 PM PDT by TPartyType
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To: justiceseeker93

In the 9th inning, Richie Asburn, formerly of Phillies fame, hit a little flare down the left field line foul that almost caused heart attacks among the Dodger throng. Ashburn hit .344 in 1951.


33 posted on 09/06/2009 5:48:27 PM PDT by doug from upland (10+ million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: justiceseeker93; doug from upland
Pitchers who have struck out three batters on nine pitches

Note that three pitchers have done this twice: Lefty Grove, Sandy Koufax, and Nolan Ryan.

34 posted on 09/06/2009 6:08:47 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: Daffynition

I have a few at the hook, it’s trying to get them to bite the bait that’s the real work. ;)


35 posted on 09/06/2009 6:25:52 PM PDT by BluesDuke (The waste is a terrible thing to mind . . .)
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To: BluesDuke

It’s a shame you have to do this yourself. This part of the job is very time consuming. You should be doing, what you do best, being creative!


36 posted on 09/06/2009 6:30:27 PM PDT by Daffynition (A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.)
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To: BluesDuke
Juan Marichal

I almost put Marichal in my grouping of Koufax, Carlton, Gibson, and Seaver, all of whom I saw pitch in person many, many times. I wouldn't object to putting him in that category; at most, he was just half a notch below them. Marichal had the best assortment of pitches in the league.

37 posted on 09/06/2009 7:14:06 PM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Saw all the great players of the '60s when they came to Chicago.)
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To: EveningStar

Dodger Pete Richert struck out four batters in one inning in his first Major League game.


38 posted on 09/06/2009 9:36:50 PM PDT by doug from upland (10+ million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: EveningStar

Here Vinny call the 9th inning of the perfecto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uozLFsEPu8&feature=related


39 posted on 09/06/2009 9:48:35 PM PDT by doug from upland (10+ million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: EveningStar

The voice of Vin Scully is the baseball voice I first remember.


40 posted on 09/06/2009 9:53:38 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obamacare is "Shovel Ready".)
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To: Daffynition
It’s a shame you have to do this yourself. This part of the job is very time consuming. You should be doing, what you do best, being creative!
Tell me about it! ;)
41 posted on 09/06/2009 10:40:51 PM PDT by BluesDuke (The waste is a terrible thing to mind . . .)
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To: Charles Henrickson; RVN Airplane Driver

Vanity post here. I have tried to find websites that list All Star games by year with the rosters, etc. but no luck. Any place you know of that may have that info? I have two autographed baseballs that my BIL gave me when I was a kid - probably 1968 to 1971 range. I think they must be from an All-Star games - probably at the Met Stadium in Minneapolis/St. Paul.

One of them has Sandy Koufax, Ernie Banks, Pete Rose, Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, Joe Torre, Frank Robinson, Bob Veale, and lots of others I don’t recognize. I did not realize that Willie Mays were still around when Pete Rose was playing.

The other is written in a different ink and is more faded and fewer names that I know, but I see Jim Hunter and Bert Campeneras.


42 posted on 09/06/2009 10:56:02 PM PDT by 21twelve (Drive Reality out with a pitchfork if you want , it always comes back.)
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To: 21twelve

I see them listed by year. Don’t know how far back they go. search MLB all star rosters 2000 etc.


43 posted on 09/06/2009 10:59:07 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport, and school records.)
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To: nufsed

Thanks! That was easy. Not sure why I had such a hard time finding it before.

1965 All-Star game at Met Stadium!


44 posted on 09/06/2009 11:04:16 PM PDT by 21twelve (Drive Reality out with a pitchfork if you want , it always comes back.)
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To: 21twelve
http://mlb.com/mlb/history/mlb_asgrecaps_story_headline.jsp?story_page=recap_1940

Check out the box to the right of center half way down.

45 posted on 09/06/2009 11:07:20 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport, and school records.)
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To: nufsed

Thanks again - that is the website I ended up on before. Even had a little recap of the game. Now I need to look for Harmon Killebrew’s autograph - my hometown favorite as a kid!


46 posted on 09/06/2009 11:13:11 PM PDT by 21twelve (Drive Reality out with a pitchfork if you want , it always comes back.)
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To: 21twelve

ebay??


47 posted on 09/06/2009 11:14:53 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport, and school records.)
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To: 21twelve
http://www.grandstandsports.com/gsm/p_Harmon_Killebrew_1.asp

I'm on a roll. Somebody stop me.

48 posted on 09/06/2009 11:16:00 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the birth certificate, passport, and school records.)
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To: nufsed

Several years ago I was almost desperate enough to sell them. Hopefully I can hang on to them and pass them down to my kids.


49 posted on 09/06/2009 11:21:01 PM PDT by 21twelve (Drive Reality out with a pitchfork if you want , it always comes back.)
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To: devere

I agree. Ryan was great, without a doubt, but he’s also one of the most overrated pitchers of all time. The only man I can think of who may well have been better than Koufax was Satchel Paige. Sadly, he didn’t get to pitch in the majors until he was about 100 years old, so we’ll never really know.


50 posted on 09/07/2009 12:32:17 AM PDT by The Pack Knight (Duty, Honor, Country)
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