Skip to comments.Scouts to no longer bring penknives on camping trips [UK]
Posted on 09/07/2009 6:29:09 AM PDT by Daffynition
New advice published in Scouting, the official in-house magazine, says neither Scouts nor their parents should bring penknives to camp except in "specific" situations.
Scouts have traditionally been taught how to use knives correctly, using them on camping trips to cut firewood or carve tools.
At one point Scouts were allowed to carry a sheath knife on their belt as part of their uniform although this is no longer the case. In recent years the Scout Association guidance has been that parents should carry knives to camps or meetings.
Dave Budd, a knife-maker who runs courses training Scouts about the safe use of blades, wrote that the growing problem of knife crime meant action had to be taken.
"Sadly, there is now confusion about when a Scout is allowed to carry a knife," he wrote. "The series of high-profile fatal stabbings [has] highlighted a growing knife culture in the UK.
"I think it is safest to assume that knives of any sort should not be carried by anybody to a Scout meeting or camp, unless there is likely to be a specific need for one. In that case, they should be kept by the Scout leaders and handed out as required."
Troops leaders however have said the decision is "very sad". Sheila Burgin, from 4th Sevenoaks Scout Group in Kent, said: "Scouts by law are allowed to have Swiss army knives. I think this is going too far you just dont know when a Scout will need a knife.
"It is also suggested that the leader keeps control of the knives when they go camping, but I think that is completely wrong. The first Scout Law is 'The Scout is to be trusted'. Scouts love having knives and using them properly. There is nothing wrong with it."
Miss Burgin, who offers lessons in carving using penknives, added: "If you teach children to use a knife properly they wont abuse it. If someone wants to cause harm they will do it anyway. It is a real shame it has come to this."
A Scouts spokesman said: "We believe that young people need more places to go after school and at weekends, where they can experience adventure without the threat of violence or bullying and the need to carry weapons.
"Scouting helps to prepare young people with valuable life skills, while keeping them safe by not carrying knives."
Meanwhile a school has banned giving out goldfish as prizes at its fetes after it was criticised by animal welfare societies.
John Porteous, the headteacher of Turton School, in Bromley Cross, near Bolton, Greater Manchester, has pledged that they will not hand out goldfish as prizes after coming under fire from the Captive Animals' Protection Society (CAPS) and RSPCA.
Self-respecting Scouts and Scout Leaders ought to feel free to ignore this foolish guidance.
A Boy Scout without a pocket-knife = an Unprepared Scout.
Boy Scouts in most of the world is now co-ed. I was in Scotland 8 years ago with a bunch of Scouts, and was amazed at what is happening with Scouting around the world. Many are taking God out of the Scout Oath and promise.Our boys were trying to hit on two danish beauties, but they turned out to be a lesbian couple.
Just another sign of what socialism brings.
The British bulldog is now a poodle.
I think we ought to provide some feedback. It's the least us old Scouts can do.
I still have mine from 50+ years ago. Not in as good shape as the one in the photo.
How could a Scout NOT have a knife? Oh, this is insanely PC England. What a shame and pity.
I worked hard selling either magazines subs or chocolate bars to get my sheath knife. I was very proud of it.
What would the formerly brave and stalwart English think of American Scouts going to summer came and learning to shoot real guns like I did as a kid? They’d be soiling their pant (or panties).
Sad to see a formerly great country going to hell and kissing Muslim butts.
Good find DHtH! Knowing this is the UK, I can’t help but substitute the word *gun* in this C&P from your link. Sadly, the nanny state has complete control and I fear a harbinger of things to come in the USA.
Information on the use of knives in Scouting
Knives should be considered as a tool and treated as such. Those who are going to use them should get training for their use, as you would for a saw or an axe. Knives are an offensive weapon so great care should be taken when dealing with them. When undertaking training at the Scout HQ, knives should be taken to and from Scouts by an adult. When taking a knife to camp, they should be securely stowed in the middle of the rucksack or bag.
If you consider a knife as a tool, then you should use the appropriate tool for the job. The vast majority of Scout use will only require the use of a pen or clasp knife, the cutting of string, cooking or whittling. Where you have a larger task, such as splitting wood, a larger knife such as a sheath knife may be appropriate. If you relate this to axes, you would not use a hand axe to fell a tree, nor a felling axe to split wood.
There is an issue with regard to clasp knives and lock knives. A lock knife is one where the blade stays open unless some mechanism is used to close the blade. In the eyes of the Law, this is more of an offensive weapon than a standard clasp knife because of this multiple action. From a safety point of view, a lock knife can not fold onto the users fingers and may be better.
The carriage of knives is also to be considered. If a knife is considered as a tool, you would only really carry the knife when there is an expectation to use the tool, after all, you wouldn’t carry an axe around a campsite on the off chance of coming across some wood to chop. Therefore, knives when not being used should be stowed away until such time as they are needed. Legally, you are not allowed to carry a knife in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. A campsite, which may technically be private property as it is owned by a District or County, is considered as public property because of its use. Knives should not be carried unless they are going to be used, and should be put away when not in use.
Finally, horse play with knives must not be tolerated.
I also had a little female miniature Poodle that I found and rescued from the street (couldn't find the owner) who wasn't afraid of much of anything and would attack anybody I told her to go get. She may have only been able to bite their ankles, but she wasn't afraid and was a good watch dog also.
Maybe you meant a Yorkie or Chihuahua. OK Yorkie and Chihuahua owners, start flaming. I like just about all dogs.
Your advice would be a serious mistake in Britain as such action could carry a short stay in jail (a couple of years ago, a writer for a British magazine returned from a year in Italy and wrote of his predicament at Customs). If it wasn’t so sad, it would actually be funny; despite a stellar life (not even a traffic ticket), he now has a permanent record for carrying a tiny Swiss Army knife (the little Executive model). Welcome to the Nanny State.
In 2002, I brought a Kershaw Leek one-finger opening knife into Britain and received numerous friendly warnings not to display it. However, I believed it saved my life, or at least my wallet, one night in the city of Bath. As I was walking back to my B&B after dinner around 10 PM, two tall punks started following me down a poorly lighted street. I flicked my knife out and actually ran (I was 50 at the time) towards them. The last time I saw that much surprise in anyone’s face was when I put a shotgun to the head of a kid in my garage (that’s another story).
I just went thru the UK Scouting’s online store. I can find wineglasses and flasks, but be dam’ned if I can find a simple Scouting pocket-knife.
My consolation in all this is that my Scout Leader is not alive to see this development: she died in 1991, an elderly and respected lady, surrounded by “her Lads”, of which I am proud to have been one.
Of course, forks can also be used as weapons. And bricks, bats, hammers, chainsaws, pipes, rocks, sticks, axes, boards, hacksaws, glass bottles, tire irons, shovels, and hoes are all dangerous. Let's ban all of them!
And let's keep those dangerous packs of Boy Scouts off the street. Who knows when they might attack an elderly lady at a cross walk?
I wonder if someday there will be a Heller like challenge to the insane knife laws in the United States. In some counties, it is a felony to carry a knife with a blade that exceeds 1.5 inches. Whole classes of knives are banned in many states, supposedly for their weapon like qualities. A knife is a tool, but if the state wishes to define it as a weapon, then the 2nd amendment should apply - after all, arms always meant more than just guns, it meant weapons.
Actually, I carry a tool knife in my purse. It's come in handy on more than one occasion.
When I was a Brownie leader... I had each one of the girls (ages 7-10) bring their knives on a camping trip to teach them how to use and store it properly. The Mom's were a bit frantic at first....but were very surprised at how seriously the girls took instruction. No one ever got hurt or tried to stab anyone.
PC once again.....out-of-control.
Yes it Is very sad what has happened to the British lion.
This once formidable, resilient nation that alone stood up to Hitler and established the rule of law around the world has become a nation of wimps. It saddens me very much and I fear America is on the same path.
(MAJOR SARCASM ALERT!) We have it on good authority that the Boy Scout Council in the Bay area has been sued to force them to add this new and distinctive badge to the Scout program there:
(grin!) it isn't quite as bad as all that, yet -- tho' it is rapidly getting that way.
Here is a link from the same Scouting website that summarizes the relevant UK law nicely.
Lawful Purpose would probably keep the Scouts out of trouble. What is Lawful Purpose? Well, cutting string and peeling oranges are "Lawful Purposes" for carrying a small pocket knife. As a Prepared Boy Scout should always have a piece of string with him, he should always have a Lawful Purpose for his pocket-knife.
My read of the Scouts' guidance is that their organization is acting from an abundance of caution, as the UK is experiencing a significant number of knife crimes. Once the gummint banned guns, the Crims armed themselves with bladed objects, to nobody's surprise...
The new standard Scout Swiss Army Spoon.
“Scouting helps to prepare young people with valuable life skills, while keeping them safe by not carrying knives.”
This line had me laughing.
> This once formidable, resilient nation that alone stood up to Hitler and established the rule of law around the world has become a nation of wimps.
Not all of us, mate. Not all of us.
Leave it to UK scouting to turn bright boys into nice young women.
> The British bulldog is now a poodle.
A full-size poodle is smarter than a German Shepherd (*that* is saying something!) and tougher than most other dogs. They are hunting dogs not to be meddled with.
I always thought the BS were the BEST. Dad had a troop all the way through Explorers and I’d sneak into all the meetings held at the house. GS didn’t really, at that time encourage pocket knives, not that they were discouraged either, which is what endeared the BS to me.
Hatchets, axes, knives and learning to sharpen them properly. Cool stuff. And don’t get me started on ax throwing! ;-D
All the boys went on to become Eagle Scouts and one of them went on to become an executive in the BSA headquarters. Good times.
Being a Scout prepared me for becoming a Guardian Angel later in life. It was a life-shaping experience that I wish every boy could have. It really bugs me that Boy Scouts is under assault by the PC brigade in this fashion.
........then the laughter turns to seething anger!
So they are no longer Scouts, but little sissy boys?
I actually think it would be better to teach boys the responsible use of a knife rather than simply ban them.
#1 “life skill”: learning to be safe by not carrying a knife.
This is right were we are with firearms. Lord help us.
HAHAHA! You’re so ghey! ;D
My first Class son and my Webelo son each got a very large official Boy Scout locking blade pocketknife for Christmas, to add to their ever growing collection. They also received a shotgun.
Oh the horror!! :0
The day before Christmas, i was at the checkout at Walgreen. The clerk asked if I needed any last minute batteries. I looked at her and said “I’ve got four kids and none of them are getting stuff that needs batteries. In fact, I bought my boys knives and guns for Christmas.”
I got the full hands on hips, eye roll, suck in the breath and “you should be ashamed of yourself” treatment.
I explained that it was my duty as a father to teach my kids the proper safe use of such tools. She backed off rather quickly and actually agreed with me.
Time for a new poster.
Sucking the fun out of everything.
What exactly is the number of Boy Scouts involved in these attacks?
I have a feeling the number is zero.
Sounds like a fine woman. I am sure you taught the lads well.
I pray you’re right friend ... the remnant of which you are a part and your brother hold-outs in America are all that’s left of the once mighty anglo-american alliance.
My 6 & 4 year old grand kids’ guns need batteries for the laser sights.
Your post got me wondering about the girl scouts here in the US, so I googled them up. Turns out they’ve really nothing to do with scouting anymore. Instead, they look like they’ve been an experimental ground for Obama’s brown shirts. All kinds of fake ‘journeys’ that have to do with activism to make this sorry country of ours a better place.
Or how about this, the YWCA in May voted with 91% approval to make this their new mission statement:
“YWCA is dedicated to eliminating racism, empowering women and promoting peace, justice, freedom and dignity for all.”