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Is Turkey Renaming Istanbul Constantinople?
foreignpolicy.com ^ | SEPTEMBER 4, 2009 | NICK DANFORTH

Posted on 09/08/2009 7:28:05 AM PDT by Nikas777

Is Turkey Renaming Istanbul Constantinople?

Chances of Turkey and the Kurds reaching a rapprochement are at their highest in 25 years. But what does that mean for Turkification -- and what concessions are the Turks willing to make?

BY NICK DANFORTH | SEPTEMBER 4, 2009

Last month, Turkish President Abdullah Gul broke a long-standing national taboo: He called the remote village of Guroymak by its Kurdish name, Norshin.

The president's opponents say renaming Istanbul Constantinople on highway signs will inevitably follow. Or worse. For many Turks, saying Norshin leads to saying Kurdistan, and saying Kurdistan leads to recognizing an independent Kurdish state stretching across Iran, Iraq, and southeastern Turkey.

After a 1980 military coup, Turkey "Turkified": It banned the Kurdish language, imposed new Turkish place names, and famously declared that Kurds were actually "mountain Turks."

(Excerpt) Read more at foreignpolicy.com ...


TOPICS: History; Humor; Religion
KEYWORDS: constantinople; godsgravesglyphs; greeks; istanbul; megaliidea; turkey
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1 posted on 09/08/2009 7:28:05 AM PDT by Nikas777
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To: Nikas777

Why did Constantinople get the works?


2 posted on 09/08/2009 7:29:14 AM PDT by Constitution Day
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To: Constitution Day

That’s nobody’s business but the Turks.


3 posted on 09/08/2009 7:30:59 AM PDT by Above My Pay Grade
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To: Nikas777
They got the idea from Craig Ferguson of the Late, Late Show.
4 posted on 09/08/2009 7:31:25 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the Defense of the Indefensible)
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To: Nikas777

They were talking Turkey.


5 posted on 09/08/2009 7:31:49 AM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: Constitution Day
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Leni

6 posted on 09/08/2009 7:34:38 AM PDT by MinuteGal (Hey, Dum-Dem..........Are You Better Off Than You Were Nine Months Ago?)
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To: Nikas777

Yeh ! And tell’um we want the Hi-Ya So-fee-ya back as a Christian Church Too !...LOL...


7 posted on 09/08/2009 7:34:47 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo long)
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To: Above My Pay Grade

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam.


8 posted on 09/08/2009 7:36:10 AM PDT by Constitution Day
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To: Above My Pay Grade

Evr’y gal in Constantinople
Is a Miss-stanbul, not Constantinople
So if you date in Constantinople
She’ll be waiting in Istanbul


9 posted on 09/08/2009 7:37:08 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat
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To: A_Former_Democrat
The Four Lads,
1953
10 posted on 09/08/2009 7:38:59 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

They Might Be Giants,
1989


11 posted on 09/08/2009 7:40:17 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Indeed. I heard that song sparingly while growing up in your state. I confess to cheating with Google this a.m. :)


12 posted on 09/08/2009 7:41:27 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat
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To: A_Former_Democrat
I remember hearing it on FEN out of Tokyo in the 1950s.
13 posted on 09/08/2009 7:47:00 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: dfwgator

14 posted on 09/08/2009 7:48:39 AM PDT by stormer
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To: dfwgator

Was that really 20 years ago?????

It boggles the mind.


15 posted on 09/08/2009 7:50:10 AM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: Nikas777

Istantinople
Constanbul
Istanbulople
Conistan


16 posted on 09/08/2009 7:57:13 AM PDT by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
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To: Nikas777; a fool in paradise

That’s nobody’s business but the Turks!


17 posted on 09/08/2009 8:00:18 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: MinuteGal
St. Menehould was one of the folks French explorers and mapmakers liked to name things after (probably because she had 5 sisters who were also venerated so if you needed to name something else nearby you had a handy source of names). The town of St. Menehould is located in the Argonne. The first 6 families to be settled on Manhattan Island were Wallonian ~ that is, from the Argonne. The Wallonians built the wall that became Wall street.

If you go looking for quick references on this you'll find that Henry Hudson is given credit for discovering Manhattan in 1609 - September 12, 1609 to be exact.

The French had already landed just up the coast at St. Sauveur in 1598, and had for most of the preceding century used spots from Norfolk to Boston for drying and salting fish to be shipped back to Europe.

How they missed Manhattan is a doggone good question. Earlier the Portuguese had made a permanent settlement far to the North in Labrador (taken down by the spanish about 1538), and there are another 29 permanent settlements of various quality that were set up BEFORE 1600 on the East Coast ~ and only a couple of them have been studied extensively.

Worth noting ~ by 1620 there were already 20,000 European and African settlers in what is now Maryland ~ and no one has any idea where they came from, or when they settled. Pirates had made earlier settlements up and down the coast throughout the 1500s.

How all these folks missed Manhattan........?

18 posted on 09/08/2009 8:01:34 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Nikas777

THIS JUST IN: New York is being renamed New Amsterdam!


19 posted on 09/08/2009 8:02:20 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Nikas777

“...and famously declared that Kurds were actually “mountain Turks.””

One Kurd leg is shorter than the other?


20 posted on 09/08/2009 8:10:33 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: Nikas777

http://www.greek-genocide.org/index1.html


21 posted on 09/08/2009 8:30:58 AM PDT by gitmogrunt (Not studying History is for morons who are eager to repeat it.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

That was funny as ...!


22 posted on 09/08/2009 8:39:36 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: MinuteGal; blam
Why did Constantinople get the works?

The Muslims changed it after the fall of the Byzantines who had named it Constantinople after Constantine, the first Roman rmporer to convert to Christianity.

I did not look this up so am open to corrections ..just a hunch.

23 posted on 09/08/2009 8:42:55 AM PDT by wardaddy (Bro has stumbled mightily but the media will rebuild him....)
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To: Nikas777

Not on your life.


24 posted on 09/08/2009 8:47:53 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: wardaddy; MinuteGal; blam

Actually the city’s name was only changed in the early 20th century in an attempt to create a new Turkish national identity. Before that the Turks kind of saw themselves as overlords of native peoples they ruled over. Their ancestors lived in tent cities and they would tax the native city and towns people. When the Ottoman Empire fell this created a need for a new type of Turkish identity which saw them now declaring they were natives of the lands they occupied.


25 posted on 09/08/2009 8:51:14 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: CPT Clay

Never say never. Modern Turkey is not that old a nation and is composed of many non Turks forced to be Turks. Who knows how long such a creation can last?


26 posted on 09/08/2009 8:52:30 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777

thanks for clarifying...


27 posted on 09/08/2009 9:21:02 AM PDT by wardaddy (Bro has stumbled mightily but the media will rebuild him....)
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To: Nikas777; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ..

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Thanks Nikas777. Turkification... I turkification to Washington DC about ten years ago, and would like to do so again.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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28 posted on 09/08/2009 8:46:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: MinuteGal

It got changed because the British took over from the Dutch.

York is in England. Amsterdam is in Holland.


29 posted on 09/08/2009 11:30:32 PM PDT by djf (I ain't got time to read all the whines!!!)
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To: Nikas777

Turkey is highly unlikely to replace the name of Istanbul with a Greek name. Turks don’t hate the Kurds. They oppose Kurdish irredentism and Kurdish Communists. Turks hate the Greeks.


30 posted on 09/09/2009 4:43:11 AM PDT by ThanhPhero (di tray hoi den La Vang)
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To: Nikas777

So, Bert is right and Islam bashing FReepers are wrong.

The recent article describing a meet between Syria, Iraq, Turkey, and Iran was not about a war compact to rule the world, but about seeking understanding of a common problem, what is the best course for dealing with a fragmented Kurdistan?


31 posted on 09/09/2009 5:02:10 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . fasl el-khital)
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To: Nikas777

You can’t go back to Constantinople,
No you can’t go back to Constantinople,
No you can’t go back to Constantinople,
You can’t go back to Constantinople ‘cause it’s ISTANBUL! (ba-dum-dum-dum)


32 posted on 09/09/2009 5:08:35 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: ThanhPhero
Turkey is highly unlikely to replace the name of Istanbul with a Greek name.

Istanbul is actually a Greek compound word that Turks use now. Constaninople is a Latin and Greek compound name - Constantine of course being a Latin name and polis being the Greek word for city.

Istanbul is a corruption of the Greek phrase istanˈpoli meaning "to the city" or "the City" or "DownTown".

33 posted on 09/09/2009 6:12:03 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: bert

I never heard of bert and why was he right over Islam bashers (whoever they are)?


34 posted on 09/09/2009 6:13:26 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: MortMan

Thank god for Heavy Metal music growing up that I did not have to listen to Alternative music by college kids.


35 posted on 09/09/2009 6:14:27 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777

Hey - Doctor Demento was THE radio show to “watch” back then! ;-P


36 posted on 09/09/2009 6:17:10 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: Nikas777

Because he correctly indicated the common interest of the 4 nations regarding dealings with Kurds and that a meeting to form a world conquering Caliphate was ludicrous.


37 posted on 09/09/2009 6:21:20 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . fasl el-khital)
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To: MortMan

Was that like a California thing?


38 posted on 09/09/2009 6:25:48 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: bert

He did?


39 posted on 09/09/2009 6:33:17 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777

Oh just change it to Troy and call it good.


40 posted on 09/09/2009 6:37:23 AM PDT by rintense (Senior Marketing / IT / UX architect unemployed and looking for work. Freepmail me if you have leads)
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To: Nikas777

I grew up in Upstate NY, so I couldn’t say anything about California.

Dr. Demento was a late-Sunday night show that included such favorites as “I’m my own Grandpa” and “Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer”. (Not to mention “Can’t go back to Constantinople”).

I listened to everything from Classical, through classic rock, through heavy metal, to Dr. Demento.

But, I’ve always known I’m a bit “unique”. ;-P


41 posted on 09/09/2009 7:10:26 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: MortMan

I never heard of him before. Was he syndicated nationwide? I always wondered if those gimmicky radio songs had like an origin. I love them until I hear em a thousand times and then I want to shoot my self! LOL! Thanks for the info. I try to maintain a database of shows as part of my effort to be a cultural historian.


42 posted on 09/09/2009 7:17:54 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: Nikas777
When you're alone and life is making you lonely You can always go - downtown
When you've got worries, all the noise and the hurry Seems to help, I know - downtown

43 posted on 09/09/2009 10:58:26 AM PDT by colorado tanker (Martha's Vineyard is great! Hey, honey, let's take a drive . . . .)
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To: Nikas777
I miss the name 'Constantinople' - it has such a history behind it.
44 posted on 09/09/2009 12:10:11 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Nikas777

It SHOULD be Constantinople again, because it’s on the Greek side, and thus, should belong to Greece. Turkey got it by conquest. But it’s a pipe-dream that they’ll ever give it back.


45 posted on 09/09/2009 5:15:10 PM PDT by DesScorp
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To: DesScorp
Nationalities need not change. The Turks should allow the Greeks who were driven off in 1955 to reclaim their properties and to be compensated. Also, the church of Hagia Sofia shouldbe returned to the church - which is after all a native local church - and the Turks would make a fortune off the tourist traffic.

The problem is Turks really are afraid someone may come along and kick them out - it is their hidden unspoken fear.

46 posted on 09/10/2009 6:15:52 AM PDT by Nikas777 (En touto nika, "In this, be victorious")
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To: muawiyah

Interesting stuff! Where do you get all this?


47 posted on 09/16/2009 3:50:45 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("I ain't from the South, but I got here as fast as I could.")
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To: Buck W.
Having asked the question of both ethnic Kurds and ethnic Turks many times over the years, I think it's safe to say that the Turkish and Kurdish populations are fairly well overlapped in muchof the Eastern half of Turkey.

They differ in their occupations and lifestyles. The Kurds are classically herders and subsistence farmers and live in the highlands, and the Turks are large scale agriculturalists and live in the lowlands.

They are separated by language and tradition.

I'm pretty sure DNA analysis would reveal them to be essentially the same folks.

48 posted on 09/16/2009 3:56:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Been studying the origins of the various settlements on the East Coast for several decades.

The population in Maryland was reported by the government in Virginia in the early 1600s. They had no idea where all those people came from. Neither did the people.

49 posted on 09/16/2009 3:57:40 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

My post was a joke—ever hear of a side hill fimp?


50 posted on 09/16/2009 4:10:51 PM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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