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How Did Dogs Acquire a "Guilty Look?"
Self | September 18, 2009 | PJ-Comix

Posted on 09/18/2009 3:06:19 PM PDT by PJ-Comix

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To: Dumpster Baby

What a cute baby.


51 posted on 09/18/2009 3:32:32 PM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: PJ-Comix; aruanan; antivenom; cripplecreek; Dumpster Baby; Domandred; SonOfDarkSkies; 1rudeboy; ...

          Guilty

52 posted on 09/18/2009 3:35:16 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: PJ-Comix
guilty? GUILTY?? i had a 130lb Rotty that could damn near clear a room when he farted... and as soon as somebody said Who Farted let alone did YOU fart MAXX??? he got this guilty look like he was just been whipped or something

he droop his head and turn and leave the room numerous insults were made on his way out.

yeah... he looked guilty all right

53 posted on 09/18/2009 3:36:29 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: mware

I saw a fascinating science show about dogs. What really got to me is that canines have the widest DNA diversity of any mammal which is why there are so many dog breeds. And that DNA diversity arrived long before dogs were domesticated. When they were still wolves. That got to me. Man’s best friend had the potential for the widest ranges of shapes, sizes, and colors long before they were Man’s best friend.


54 posted on 09/18/2009 3:37:03 PM PDT by PJ-Comix ("They spent a trillion dollars on a guess?" ---Astute DUmmie observation)
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To: Rodamala

Gee, I always thought the look exemplified in the Helen Thomas photo was cackling evil, not guilt.


55 posted on 09/18/2009 3:37:10 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Rodamala

Please do not even think about comparing my beautiful, darling dog to that horrible, lying old harpy.


56 posted on 09/18/2009 3:37:17 PM PDT by La Lydia
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To: AnAmericanMother

I know Shelly never appears “guilty” because she never does anything wrong! :^)


57 posted on 09/18/2009 3:39:45 PM PDT by jla
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To: PJ-Comix
We call it guilty... Actually it's a submissive position. When the dog knows it's done something it shouldn't have it displays submissive behavior which other dogs see as being no threat.

Mark

58 posted on 09/18/2009 3:41:27 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies

LOL you know cats well........


59 posted on 09/18/2009 3:42:56 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Dumpster Baby

Beagles have perfected the sympathy act. That photo can be interpreted, “I know I just chewed up your new $129 Clark loafer but if I look at you like this you won’t hit me with that newspaper.


60 posted on 09/18/2009 3:43:29 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: PJ-Comix

I’ve never seen proof that they feel guilt. When they believe you might be angry at them (they are masters at reading body language) they will try to show you they are not a threat, they will act like a puppy, try to look smaller, etc so you will not harm them. They do the same thing to a dog of higher status if they think that dog is going to hurt them.
People have a tendency to anthropomorphize way too much.


61 posted on 09/18/2009 3:43:48 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: cripplecreek

62 posted on 09/18/2009 3:46:59 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C Clarke)
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To: PJ-Comix
Yes, amazing the number of breeds out there.

Too bad they are messing too much with some breeds. Some breeds have serious medical problems because of it. The poor old British bulldog has problems with breathing because of it.

63 posted on 09/18/2009 3:47:14 PM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: roses of sharon
You've Gotta Be Joking!
64 posted on 09/18/2009 3:48:10 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Vendome

Because we take care of their every need.


65 posted on 09/18/2009 3:48:36 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: SC Swamp Fox
A dog that gives you the “guilty” look has broken a pack rule and views you as higher ranking pack member that is about mete out discipline.

****** Good theory and in case of poo on the floor, that dog is right. But he knows he did something wrong, I could still go with guilt...

66 posted on 09/18/2009 3:48:53 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: brytlea

What a BABY. I could just squeeze her. I see she was tagged with a blue ribbon. Is she yours???


67 posted on 09/18/2009 3:49:22 PM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: MarkL
GUILTY!


68 posted on 09/18/2009 3:51:31 PM PDT by PJ-Comix ("They spent a trillion dollars on a guess?" ---Astute DUmmie observation)
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To: mware

Patsy is a good dog!


69 posted on 09/18/2009 3:51:45 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: PJ-Comix

I’ve done a search and I can’t find it, but in the past couple of days there was a posting about research showing that dogs are more attuned to action like humans than chimps because they have socialized with us longer.


70 posted on 09/18/2009 3:52:47 PM PDT by CaptRon
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To: Rodamala

AAaaargh!!!

I will take you to the woodshed for that!

Right after I wash out my eyes!

Ooooh!!!


71 posted on 09/18/2009 3:52:53 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Chode

LOL many years ago had a dog named Mugsy...he would fart, stand up and give you a dirty look and walk out of the room...he never took the blame..


72 posted on 09/18/2009 3:53:08 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: PJ-Comix
Have checked horses on this. I knew a neighbor whose horse would not look guilty but would stay at the far end of the field sometimes.
73 posted on 09/18/2009 3:53:14 PM PDT by ThomasThomas (Your It.)
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To: WVKayaker

Woof , Woof, Woof!

Mommie, Mommie, Mommie!


74 posted on 09/18/2009 3:54:13 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: brytlea

Hey! That’s my dog!

Well, 12 years ago. Now she is all grow’d up!


75 posted on 09/18/2009 3:55:06 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: goat granny

Actually, I don’t think they are associating the act much after the fact. I once had a golden who was housebroken. I came into the hallway and there was a puddle on the floor. She was acting submissive and *guilty*. I told her she was a bad girl and cleaned it up. Shortly after that I found out one of my sons had spilled water on the floor. Why did the dog act like that? Perhaps because she knew if there was liquid on the floor she was going to get into some trouble.

And sadly, when I helped people train their dogs I saw a lot of bad things done to dogs in the name of “He knows he did wrong!”

I’m sorry, but if you leave the house and your dog has an accident and an hour later you come home and beat the snot out of him because you know “He knew he did wrong!” and he ever does it again there are two options. Either you’re totally wrong and your dog does NOT associate the punishment with the crime, OR your dog is an idiot. (I’m not talking to you Goat Granny, I’m just venting!)


76 posted on 09/18/2009 3:55:10 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: brytlea

Because they take care of ours. Nothing like a dog jumping on me to fix my attitude.


77 posted on 09/18/2009 3:55:49 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: mware

Actually, no, she was from a litter a friend of mine had. I went over and did a shoot of the puppies for her. What fun it was!


78 posted on 09/18/2009 3:55:53 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Rodamala

Leftist are incapable of shame so the never feel guilt. It is never their fault in their mind.


79 posted on 09/18/2009 3:56:20 PM PDT by ThomasThomas (Your It.)
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To: PJ-Comix

OMG!

This is such a great thread. I feel better and I was not a good space.

Thanks everyone.


80 posted on 09/18/2009 3:56:40 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Vendome

Isn’t it sad they don’t stay like that....but get housebroken?


81 posted on 09/18/2009 3:56:56 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: PJ-Comix

LOL, look at the eyes.


82 posted on 09/18/2009 3:57:56 PM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: Vendome

Oh, you’re right. But my dogs would be stupid to run away from home, they have it made here!


83 posted on 09/18/2009 3:58:14 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: brytlea

I have 2 dogs and have never hit either one...The human hand should not be associated with punishment....but I can stare them down and point to where I want them to go, and they go....Great companions. I am 70 and my dogs don’t care if I scrub my teeth first thing in the morning or wear PJ’s all day, I recently noticed something with my lab (that I have had for 10 years) that when she is wagging her tail and I talk to her, she wags her tail faster until I stop talking....There has to something in a voice that makes them happy enough to wag..


84 posted on 09/18/2009 4:01:34 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Vendome
My favorite Spot photo- Spot and "baby". I saw this and ran for the camera b4 he moved. He later destroyed it!


85 posted on 09/18/2009 4:02:17 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C Clarke)
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To: Billthedrill
Personally I suspect that doggies read minds. Not well, but they do. Prove it ain't so! ;-)

Ditto! ...

86 posted on 09/18/2009 4:04:31 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C Clarke)
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To: brytlea
you know my dogs don't have the guilt look except for trick I taught em.

Positive reinforcement really gets better results, a friendlier dog and a happier dog.

We only have three commands when I am not kidding.

Heal!
Sit!
No Barking! (had to teach them how to bark first and then how to stop) Okay you did your job, you alerted us and if it doesn't stop, whoosh! No Barking! good boy or good girl

They run out the door after a squirrel, doing their natural job in life? No problem, Heal! or Sit!, Sit! Sit! - I find it saves the little babies lives and reinforce with good boy or good girl. that way they always respond to my command as nonnegotiable.

The other 40 some odd tricks they do pretty well but they are more for fun and relationship building and strengthening. Also gives them more confidence.

But always, smile and say “good boy or good girl”

Not preaching at you. This is for others. Oh and yes it is harder work to do it my way and takes longer but you and your dog will be better for it.

Post on!

87 posted on 09/18/2009 4:04:47 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: PJ-Comix
Not so sure that a wolf doesn't act guilty when he does something the alpha doesn't want and gets caught (like sniffing after alpha female).

Guilt is part of a self correction that makes social animals better able to interact and cooperate.

My own dog does a guilt/submission by lifting his paw as if it were hurt, as in...

“you wouldn't beat/scold a dog with a hurt paw, would ya?”

That is a known wolf submission sign.

88 posted on 09/18/2009 4:05:31 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: goat granny

Clearly they want to please us, and clearly they like our country. But, who mentioned hitting? It is counter productive in training a dog.


89 posted on 09/18/2009 4:07:35 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: goat granny
I have animals...wouldn't have it any other way.

BTW, do you have goats (I am fond of goats).

90 posted on 09/18/2009 4:08:02 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (For good judgment ask...What would Obama do? Then do the opposite!)
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To: goat granny

LOL sorry for my question about hitting, I now understand you were talking about the people I was training. Man, getting old is tough!


91 posted on 09/18/2009 4:08:13 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: WVKayaker
Oh WV, what a beauty. My last pup was a dalmatian. I had him for 14 wonderful years. I had to put him down in late winter when they found a large tumor on his kidney.

Photobucket

92 posted on 09/18/2009 4:10:46 PM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E, that spells free. Free Republic.com baby.)
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To: brytlea

So cute, yum!


93 posted on 09/18/2009 4:11:15 PM PDT by roses of sharon ( Reagan said, "When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.")
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To: Yorlik803; Vendome

Why do they put up with us? They need us because we have opposable thumbs.


94 posted on 09/18/2009 4:11:17 PM PDT by RedWhiteBlue
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To: Vendome

I have trained dogs for about 20 years, I do understand what works and what doesn’t. I have noticed that the trendy thing right now is positive only training, and it gets a lot of talk on my dog lists. I personally think there are times there need to be consequences, but I don’t really care how someone else trains, whatever works for them. I am just happy when people have a dog trained well enough for their own purposes. I will say that I have also noticed a trend toward dogs who are *obedience trained* but they are little monsters at home, doing things like counter surfing, etc. But, if their owners can live with it, it’s ok with me. :)


95 posted on 09/18/2009 4:11:36 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: aruanan

A dog is, by definition, a domesticated animal.

Sure, and by definition they are also guilty.


96 posted on 09/18/2009 4:12:30 PM PDT by freedomfiter2
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To: allmendream

I was taught years ago, that a lifted paw is a sign of stress (something to watch out for when training—perhaps the dog is getting concerned because they don’t understand what you want for instance). But, probably different experts have different opinions on that stuff. I know if I read 10 books on dogs I will find they all differ in some things. Fascinating creatures, however.


97 posted on 09/18/2009 4:14:05 PM PDT by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: brytlea
Nope! I got two cockers. Never they were smart dogs until I got them either.

Guess what? Owners are dumb, not the dogs. My oldest Grace Kelly is every bit as smart as the Collies we had as a child. She will do anything and loves to learn. Retrieves well except for that waling around the house twice thing but hey, it's my hang up not hers.

My other baby, Rex Harrison, a little lazy, not so quick on the draw, can do most the tricks and is 75% on command. Sometimes you get what you get.

But what a big baby! Cries if anyone leaves the house, the car or when he feels the ride should be over so we can go for that walk, he knows is coming.

Barks like crazy when anyone comes in and getter more controlled about taking the No Barking! thing.

Jumps up on me when I walk in.( I allow it) Jumps on my bed, jumps on the couch and rearranges everything until he is comfortable.(I don't care so long as nothing gets teeth on it)

Our favorite thing is to say in a high pitched voice “I want my mommy!” and he matches the tone. Sometimes all you have to do say it and he starts! But, hey, we taught him that and he only does it so long as we do it.

Weirdest thing about him: He nibbles at your hair as if to get mites or something. funny as hell.

Like I said, great dogs. One I trust off leash. The other? probably never.

Post on!

98 posted on 09/18/2009 4:14:15 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: brytlea

Mine too! Big babies!


99 posted on 09/18/2009 4:15:12 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: goat granny
smart dog, tooo funny!!!

i really believe even Maxx thought some of them stunk sometimes...

100 posted on 09/18/2009 4:15:23 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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