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Report: Crabtree offer is reduced
Mercury News ^ | 9-15-09 | Daniel Brown

Posted on 09/23/2009 10:44:56 AM PDT by Brookhaven

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To: Brookhaven

As a free market economist, I have no problem with him holding out for what he thinks he is worth, even if it is delusional.


51 posted on 09/23/2009 11:50:16 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: thefactor

$20,000 a year for an education is not worth what elite football players bring to big schools. the NCAA is a travesty.


I actually think its a pretty fair deal.

I worked my way through college. Full time job, paid my living expenses and college costs. If anyone had offered me a sports scholarship I would have jumped at it.

Big sports like football and basketball generate revenue, but other sports are a revenue drain on a school, yet they also give out scholarships. The larger sports pay for the smaller ones.


52 posted on 09/23/2009 11:54:49 AM PDT by Brookhaven (http://theconservativehand.blogspot.com/)
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To: Brookhaven
so, the D1 running back who blows out his knee did it for the good of the women's volleyball team?

not buying it. they should be paid in some way. or that ridiculous rule about not being able to enter the draft until 3 years removed from your last high school game should be tossed.

they are literally stopping these guys from being able to make a living. all the while the NCAA makes millions and millions.

53 posted on 09/23/2009 12:00:07 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
I’ve long said rookies should be offered a set amount for first year - maybe 250K - for one year - see what they do and then neogtiate after that year.

That's actually a bad idea. I haven't seen any recent figures, but running backs used to have something like a season and a half average career in the NFL.

My impression is that the average college player ends up with neither a real education nor an NFL career while the more prestigious football schools make a ton of money off the program. What's wrong with paying them as the professionals they are in college?

There's nothing glamorous or noble about amateur athletics. If there are people willing to pay to see them play, the athletes *should* get some of the take.

This guy is going to be living in the same body for the rest of his life and it cannot be any fun getting smashed by a 300lb side of beef while you're catching a pass. He's entitled to as much money as he can get (which includes $0 if he's really screwed it up).

(Oh and go Dolphins!)

54 posted on 09/23/2009 12:03:14 PM PDT by altair (I hope he fails)
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To: thefactor
they should be paid in some way. or that ridiculous rule about not being able to enter the draft until 3 years removed from your last high school game should be tossed.

they are literally stopping these guys from being able to make a living. all the while the NCAA makes millions and millions.

bump

55 posted on 09/23/2009 12:05:23 PM PDT by altair (I hope he fails)
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To: thefactor

they should be paid in some way. or that ridiculous rule about not being able to enter the draft until 3 years removed from your last high school game should be tossed.


The 3 year rule is an NFL rule. Colleges have nothing to do with that.

I don’t disagree that there should be some type of stipend for college players for living expenses.

I think where we differ is the going pro part. The bottom line is 99% of college football players NEVER go pro, because they aren’t (and never will be) good enough to play in the pros. If they weren’t playing college footbal to pay for their college education, they’d be working somewhere (restaurant, warehouse, retail, etc...) to pay their way through college.

For the 1% of college players that go on to have a career in the NFL, that $20,000 a year scholarship isn’t a good deal. For the other 99% it is.


56 posted on 09/23/2009 12:09:07 PM PDT by Brookhaven (http://theconservativehand.blogspot.com/)
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To: Brookhaven
yup. it's a meritocracy. the NFL was pressured by the NCAA for this rule (likewise the NBA) because colleges were tired of their star players leaving after 1 year because their money makers were going pro.

it doesn't matter how many go pro. it should be a free market. we don't whine about kids who are auto mechanics because they didn't go to college. why should we whine about athletes who want to go pro out of high school or 1 year out of high school?

57 posted on 09/23/2009 12:18:45 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
Drugs, women, bad decisions

But you repeat yourself...

58 posted on 09/23/2009 12:20:58 PM PDT by Dysart
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To: Brookhaven
I think there must something to that allegation, otherwise he would be with the Niners by now.
59 posted on 09/23/2009 12:22:10 PM PDT by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: NavVet

WTF is going to draft and sign him next go around? He will have missed a year of organized ball and he’s proven to be a headache. The NFL has a salary slotting system. Too bad that he didn’t get picked higher but that’s life in the NFL.


60 posted on 09/23/2009 12:24:11 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: Night Hides Not

Yeah. Like I said in the post above, I think that there is something to the rumor that the Jets are telling him to hold out so that they will be eventually be able to sign him.


61 posted on 09/23/2009 12:24:58 PM PDT by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: Night Hides Not

Or a host of other top college WRs who have been busts....


62 posted on 09/23/2009 12:25:55 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: Retired Greyhound

Who? Wasn’t he supposed to be a hot shot player? Nobody now


63 posted on 09/23/2009 12:27:42 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA

Nothing free about it. And, if you are scholarship you are not even allowed to work a part-time job.


64 posted on 09/23/2009 12:28:57 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: NavVet

Doesn’t work that way. Players agree to take a large % of the revenues in exchange for the right to teams having a draft.


65 posted on 09/23/2009 12:30:23 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: Cyclone59

The prison team....

He got a 5 year bid for robbery


66 posted on 09/23/2009 12:31:09 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: NavVet

There is revenue sharing among the teams. Quite a bit of it, not total revenue sharing but that would be silly. As it is the revenue from the TV contracts is enough to pay the cap.

But when it comes to signing players one needs to keep in mind that NFL teams (like other sports teams) are not independent corporations, they’re FRANCHISES, in a franchise system much like McDonalds which has an overseeing corporate body. And said corporate body institutes rules. One of the rules that pretty much all franchise systems always institute involve the availability of employees to other franchises, nobody wants one franchise holder to snipe all the good employees so a system has to be put in place. While franchise holders compete, they also co-operate to make a valuable whole.


67 posted on 09/23/2009 12:32:37 PM PDT by discostu (When I'm walking a dark road I am a man who walks alone)
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To: NavVet

Baseball is dominated by large market teams with an occasional appearance by a small market team. They way they balance it out is a revenue sharing deal.


68 posted on 09/23/2009 12:34:05 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: Retired Greyhound

Every minute Crabtree holds out proves Davis was right to skip him. Crabtree should get paid for what ACTUALLY happened, not for what Mel Kiper said was going to happen. The whole “well I shoulda been drafted earlier” argument is just proving that he’s a complete idiot, and complete tend to be failures in the NFL. This whole incident is proving the critics half right, this level of intellect shouldn’t have been picked 10th, this level of intellect shouldn’t have been picked until the second day, maybe even the supplemental draft.


69 posted on 09/23/2009 12:36:28 PM PDT by discostu (When I'm walking a dark road I am a man who walks alone)
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To: Retired Greyhound

The NFL isn’t a free market system though save for free agency.


70 posted on 09/23/2009 12:37:22 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: discostu

That is a great point. Success in the NFL is about more than athleticism. It’s about brains.

There are plenty of great athletes who couldn’t make it because they weren’t smart enough. Football, believe it or not, really is a thinking mans game.


71 posted on 09/23/2009 12:39:11 PM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: Retired Greyhound

Yup, you could have the body to be the next Jerry Rice, but without the brains... So far Crabtree is looking like he’s the next Ryan Leaf.


72 posted on 09/23/2009 12:44:10 PM PDT by discostu (When I'm walking a dark road I am a man who walks alone)
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To: misterrob

my point exactly! try to bust up a well run BUSINESS with stupidity and you will lose. Punk tried to be an exception to the rule. I really like the rookie minimum idea, hey the vets have one, it truely has merits and would work well with the current cap system.


73 posted on 09/23/2009 12:45:00 PM PDT by Cyclone59 (Everything that hits the fan is not evenly distributed)
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To: Retired Greyhound
They should pay him as if he were the #7 pick, which he would have been had a sane person (i.e. not Al Davis) been making the selection.

But he wasn't the Number 7 pick. He was the number 10 pick, so he'll get number 10 money. If he holds out and re-enters the draft next year, he'll get whatever the dollars are that are slotted for that pick.

Here, friends, is the wrinkle that makes Crabtree's move extra stupid. The NFL's collective bargaining agreement expires following next season. The NFL has been angling for a rookie cap, very similar to that found in the NBA. It's possible, though not likely, that the NFL will reach an agreement with the NFLPA for a new collective bargaining agreement prior to the '10 draft. If the new CBA contains a rookie salary cap, Crabtree will have cost himself millions of dollars.

74 posted on 09/23/2009 12:45:39 PM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: thefactor

They knew what they were getting going in. Might actually try to get an education it could come in handy.


75 posted on 09/23/2009 12:52:33 PM PDT by wordsofearnest (Job 19:25 As for me, I know my Redeemer lives.)
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To: wordsofearnest
but college is the only way to get to the pros. they have a monopoly. both in resources and finances.

for athletes who never go to the pros, the system might work.

76 posted on 09/23/2009 12:58:14 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: Brookhaven

He needs to remember his ex-college QB is playing in Canada.


77 posted on 09/23/2009 1:00:26 PM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: thefactor

College isn’t the only way to get into the pros. It’s the most common way, but there’s guys that go to various semi-pro leagues instead and still manage to get into the NFL. Then there’s the really weird ones like Antonio Gates who played basketball in college but still managed to be NFL players.


78 posted on 09/23/2009 1:05:57 PM PDT by discostu (When I'm walking a dark road I am a man who walks alone)
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To: thefactor

So they have a right to go to the pros ?


79 posted on 09/23/2009 1:09:57 PM PDT by wordsofearnest (Job 19:25 As for me, I know my Redeemer lives.)
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To: Cyclone59

There will be a rookie cap in 2011 and the veterans won’t mind since it means more $$$ for them and less for the guys who are signing big contracts without having played a down in the NFL.

The salary cap in 2002 was $71 million, This year it’s $127 million. That’s an 80% increase in 7 years and well past the rate of inflation. No one save for some unproven rookie is going to want to buck that system


80 posted on 09/23/2009 1:18:58 PM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: wordsofearnest

if an 18 year old is good enough to play in the nfl or nba, he should have the option. the free market takes care of that kind of thing.


81 posted on 09/23/2009 1:19:52 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: thefactor

There is nothing free market about professional sports


82 posted on 09/23/2009 2:00:38 PM PDT by wordsofearnest (Job 19:25 As for me, I know my Redeemer lives.)
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To: Brookhaven

I found it interesting that the player on the other end of Crabtree’s college stats, never got picked up (Graham Harrell). It’s kind of hard to think of Crabtree as all that special, if his QB wasn’t...

hh


83 posted on 09/23/2009 3:32:09 PM PDT by hoosier hick (Note to RINOs: We need a choice, not an echo....Barry Goldwater)
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To: discostu

And Jerry Rice was the 16th pick. Wiki says only a few teams were interested because of his 4.71 40-yard dash. Much too slow to be a good NFL receiver (hehehe)....

hh


84 posted on 09/23/2009 3:38:29 PM PDT by hoosier hick (Note to RINOs: We need a choice, not an echo....Barry Goldwater)
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To: hoosier hick

All part of the fun with draft picks. It’s like any other hiring decision, you can come up with all kinds of measurements and what not but in the end it’s a crap shoot. That’s the one good thing about these rookie contract holdouts, we find out if they’re any good pretty quick, it’s a rare thing for a guy that holds out on his rookie contract to actually put together a good career, it’s the guys that take what’s offered hoping for the big SECOND contract that become stars.


85 posted on 09/23/2009 3:42:15 PM PDT by discostu (When I'm walking a dark road I am a man who walks alone)
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA

What if they get a career ending injury in the first year?


86 posted on 09/23/2009 5:02:53 PM PDT by stop_fascism (Georgism is Capitalism's best, last hope)
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To: thefactor
so, the D1 running back who blows out his knee did it for the good of the women's volleyball team?

Socialism rears its ugly head here ar FR. Is no place safe?

87 posted on 09/23/2009 5:05:43 PM PDT by stop_fascism (Georgism is Capitalism's best, last hope)
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To: stop_fascism

Why should a team have to pay if they can’t perform after the first year? Would your job continue to pay you?


88 posted on 09/23/2009 5:46:43 PM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA (Two brave people did what thousands couldn't do to acorn.....bless you both!)
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA

My job didn’t restrict how much I could earn on my first year.


89 posted on 09/23/2009 6:01:07 PM PDT by stop_fascism (Georgism is Capitalism's best, last hope)
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To: stop_fascism

And I’m assuming they didn’t offer you multi-millions either.


90 posted on 09/23/2009 8:24:18 PM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA (Two brave people did what thousands couldn't do to acorn.....bless you both!)
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

The problem, is the league isn’t a collective. They have limited revenue sharing, but since the revenue is distributed unevenly, they have to force the players into a collective in order to control costs. If the league shared revenue, and required player salaries to be paid out of that revenue, then there would be no need to impose salary caps.


91 posted on 09/24/2009 4:52:17 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: SoldierDad

Only partially. That’s why they impose salary caps on players.


92 posted on 09/24/2009 4:52:58 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: misterrob

Well then he would have gambled and lost. That’s how capitalism works sometimes.


93 posted on 09/24/2009 4:54:04 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: misterrob

I know what the players have agreed to. The players are a costs of doing business. However, the top performing players would like to be able to demand an even bigger share of the revenue, without the artificially of salary caps and league minimums to constrain the free market.


94 posted on 09/24/2009 4:56:26 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA

I was a few dollars short. Football players wouldn’t be getting multi-millions using your system.


95 posted on 09/24/2009 9:19:54 AM PDT by stop_fascism (Georgism is Capitalism's best, last hope)
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To: Brookhaven

It’d be a shame if he blew his knee out today and never gets signed thus losing all that cash. Would all of his posse pay him back for the bad advice?


96 posted on 09/24/2009 11:13:12 AM PDT by oldvike
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To: NavVet

For all intents and purposes the player salaries are paid out of the shared revenue. If you take the total amount of the TV contracts (shared revenue) and divide by 32 (number of teams) you get a number that’s right in the ball park of the cap. And that doesn’t even count the visiting ticket gate and a few other revenue streams that are shared.


97 posted on 09/24/2009 11:16:23 AM PDT by discostu (When I'm walking a dark road I am a man who walks alone)
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