Posted on 09/25/2009 3:03:16 PM PDT by Drrdot
Breaking with a tradition that spans more than half a century, the Navy is in the final planning stages to integrate female Sailors into its submarine fleet. Long considered one of the most elite communities in the U.S. Navy, the small, secretive force has been comprised entirely of male officers and crew in large part because of the small living spaces and long endurance missions. The service had examined assigning a small number of females on subs over the last ten years, but found the tight confines and lack of a well-defined career path for female submariners too daunting to change. Until now. According to a senior commander in the Navy's submarine fleet who spoke to Military.com on condition of anonymity, incoming Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus has charged the service with overcoming past objections and assigning females to subs -- breaking down one of the last barriers in the service to female assignments. "We have now received a signal from the secretary of the Navy that he's ready to move out on this. We have never had that signal before," the senior sub commander said.
(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...
I have always believed, being a veteran, that the nation that puts its women in combat situations isn't worth defending.
Our nation has been losing ground for decades and it took an African-African, Muslim-Communist to complete the job of killing America.
Ah . . . a new twist on the Love Boat thing. . . .
Next they’ll allow women to try for the SEALs.
More like a lot of Military Sexual Trauma ...already this has been a problem that has increased. I wonder what the rate of MST is in the Israeli army or if they handle their female military in a different way?
Join the Navy, ride the WAVES.
Navy wives will just love this!
No, they won’t.
HOWEVER, I can see an all female-crewed boomer perhaps, or something like that. I just can’t figure on a mixed crewed attack sub. It should be all one or the other.
Best,
Chris
” have always believed, being a veteran, that the nation that puts its women in combat situations isn’t worth defending.”
Where do you intend emigrate to if this comes to pass?
Indeed. Most involving "torpedoes".
Why not. As long as they keep the same physical requirements and the women have to survive BUD/S, just like the men.
What is long, round, and full of seamen?
Answer: A submarine.
now that Admiral Mullen wants to put seawomen onboard.
I DISAGREE: The women in the I. D. F. are among the best in the world and their country (Israel) is certainly worth defending.
I do hope you jest.
Why? Why not ask God why women and men are different? I’m sure women have no problem not PMS’ing, or bleeding right? Maybe we’ll just give them special drugs to make them more man like ehh? Some testosterone injections to give them more upper-body strength? Help them hump 75lbs 10 miles?
This is just more of the same. Watering down of hard physically demanding jobs that put more work on the men in the crew. Why don’t you go tell a dock worker or warehouse person about this and see who moves more boxes or weight. There are fundamental differences that can’t be overcome, yet people still want to put round pegs in square holes. Or perhaps the woman will bat her eyelashes and have the men carry the weight for her that should help.
Men, don’t see women the same as men. They treat them special and naturally try to protect them. Take that into account when you’re in a fox hole, or other. Will a man instinctually be stupid tactically for a woman?
With all the other jobs in the Navy why should we make special consignments for so few? Even if their were some women who may make the cut... we are talking about so few why are we bothering? To be “Fair” for what?
This is just insanity plane and simple.
Women won’t maintain the same level of fitness as a man and CAN NOT. Men out run women, out lift women, anything physical a top man will always outdo a top woman. See the gold medalist that handily beat the other “women” because of a gender issue...
Could be fun for the first few weeks as they compete for attention, but then Hell has no greater wrath than a woman scorned. The ship will explode!!!
Funny movie......
I believe Israel did it in self defense. They started out with a very small population....It wasn’t done for PC reasons....Just a female observation, when women are on their periods, there is an odor. Subs stay submerged for long periods of time....wonder how they will solve that problem and any woman that says its not true is lying..
the Mile DEEP Club...
And then a thread on FR yesterday discussing a study that found that women can't keep secrets...(ducking!)
The post of the day.
it'll be a very exclusive club for sure...
The Navy is about to induce the same crew shortages into the Submarine Fleet that the Surface Fleet has been experiencing for years. Too many ships have left on cruise seriously short of crew members because of females who decide it is easier to pop pregnant than deploy overseas.
I’d like to hear how the hot-bunking works out from anyone at SubLant or SubPac...
Gives a whole new meaning to "hot bunking in the torpedo skids."
Mr. Dog (SSN 614, 688 & 692)
CROTCH POLITICS!
Like we always said, the beatings will continue until moral improves.
The Kenyan Clown is intent on destroying our military.
There was a time when people running the armed forces were rational. Do you think that those days will ever return?
Tampons are hell on ball valves.
They are there for the simple reason Israel needs the bodies given the number of enemies surrounding her, but I doubt the women are used much for infantry assault operation. I spent enough decades in the martial arts to experience the difference between men and women and not be duped by PC thinking. the disparity is large. We have enough bodies in America so that we don't need women in active combat roles.
It will be the opposite of the mile high club!
I've been on a submarine. It's cozy under the best of circumstances. I am very glad my husband got out years ago.
..bunch of jokes just waiting...etc...
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Remember a coffee cup that had a picture of a sailor and a woman sitting in a bathtub-facing each other-with the caption being:
“And that, Miss Jones, is how a torpedo works”
Congratulations, America, on your historic election.
it might be a cross between sexual athletics and self abuse, but i have faith in Yankee ingenuity...
Those of us who have seen the grim horror at the sharp end of infantry combat (as I did in a Mech Infantry outfit in Vietnam) are concerned at the rhetoric of many of those pushing the women in combat agenda. Daily we are regaled by the sight of 110 lb. women routinely beating the stuffing out of 250 lb male behemoths in choreographed entertainment fantasies like Buffy the vampire Slayer, Dark Angel, Tomb Raider and the Matrix Reloaded. We all listened breathlessly to the initial (later revealed as inaccurate) reports of brave little Jessica Lynch mowing down hordes of Iraqis.
It is only natural that with this continual barrage of opinion shaping that an attitude will begin to form that women are just as generally capable of participating in infantry combat as men are, with a comensurate erosion of the rationale for excluding them in the first place.
This is not to say that women can not serve in positions that enhance military capability, they are already serving in them, and serving well and honorably. It was Nazi Armament Minister Albert Speer who cited the German failure to mobilize their women in the manner that the Allies did in WWII as a significant factor in the Nazi defeat. In situations involving large scale mobilization, they are essential. (Don’t forget that the Soviets only did it because of the hugely staggering quantity of casualties that they suffered, on a scale that we can scarcely concieve of) That is not the case now as most personnel requirements could be met with the available pool of qualified males. Today, the issue is clouded by feminists and their societal influence ranging from lefist cum Marxist to liberal gender equity advocates. All too often combat readinesss, morale and unit cohesion is secondary to remaking the military institution into one which advances a radical social agenda. The decision to incorporate such large numbers of women into today’s military is a political decision, not one of military necessity has was the case with the Soviets during World War II.
One of the problems in assesing the impact of this issue vis-a-vis the Iraq war is the fact that we handily defeated them with the forces that were already in place in the invasion phase. Due to a combination of the skill of our superbly trained, equipped, motivated soldiers; and the ineptitude of our enemy (but they are getting better) our casualty rate has been thankfully far lower than we should have been reasonably able to expect given historical precedents. Notwithstanding this the question must be asked as to what would happen should we face an enemy that could inflict the sort of casualties on us has was the case during the fighting in northwest Europe in WWII? The United States Army was forced to comb out military personnel who had been assigned to the Army Specialized Training program as technical personnel (aircrew, radar operators, etc) and convert them to infantry to replace the staggering losses. Since 14% of the Army is not deployable to such duty (women) this does not bode well for such an eventuality. While we can continue to pray that we will never again face an enemy that will be able to attrite us as the German and Japanese Armies did, we MUST not plan as though it will never again happen. The Iraq war as it has played out IS NO TEST OF THIS PROPOSITION.
Many commentators are relentless in their determination to ignore the considerable body of factual evidence indicating that the present policy of sexual intergration is inconsistent with certain vital forms of combat readiness. Study after study (reinforced by my 20 yrs of anecdotal observation in the active duty military and NG) highlight the physical unsuitability of most women for the tasks of the combat soldier, and often even the support soldier. My personal observations include the inability to change the tires on military vehicles, clear routine stoppages on M60 medium MG’s and .50 cal HMG’s, carry heavy loads any appreciable distances at necessary speeds, lift and evacuate casualties, and an inordinate disposition to injury. The reason that the military adopted “dual physical training standards” was to ensure politically acceptable numbers of women, since 40-60% of them would be washed out if they were required to meet male physical training requirements. My son, a reservist in a NG chopper unit, is contemptuous of what he describes as continual coddling of female soldiers. He is planning to transfer to an infantry unit.
In situations of full mobilization, women are essential. I believe that women are a militarily valuable asset, provided that asset is used in a manner that makes the military ready to fight, and subordinates feminist social engineering to that end.
Hundreds of thousands of women have served and are serving their country honorably and well. I honor them for their service and accept them as comrades and fellow veterans. We can only hope that their service will be continued in such a manner as to enhance the ability of the military to fight. The potential consequences for the individual soldier and the military’s mission are too serious to subordinate to social engineering.
Extremely well said and articulated. I believe you are dead-on regarding the rise of the “Superhuman woman” depicted on TV shows, and in the popular media.
I have a sister-in-law who believes she could honestly defend herself against me. (Male 6’2 250lbs) I don’t understand where this fantasy comes from, but using your points I guess I never looked at it from that perspective. Perhaps the feminist movement means true empowerment super-strength even.
A squid is merely a practical issue for me. I guess it will be a job maker, one of those shovel-ready jobs perhaps. We can spend a few Billion retro-fitting the boats I’m sure the fairness will be well worth the expense.
Thanks for the excellent points.
New tagline...
The first step to eliminating shore leave.
Change to my new tagline, since Scott Thomas informed me of the actual provenance of the quote.
VERITAS.
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