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Holdren: Seize babies born to unwed women
www.wnd.com ^

Posted on 09/30/2009 1:37:13 PM PDT by Mind Freed

Obama science czar John Holdren stated in a college textbook that "illegitimate children" born to unwed mothers could be taken by the government and put up for adoption if the mother refused to have an abortion.

Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, argued that "illegitimate childbearing could be strongly discouraged" as a socioeconomic measure imposed to control population growth.

As previously reported, WND has obtained a copy of the 1970s college textbook "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment" that Holdren co-authored with Malthusian population alarmist Paul R. Ehrlich and Ehrlich's wife, Anne. The authors argued involuntary birth-control measures, including forced sterilization, may be necessary and morally acceptable under extreme conditions, such as widespread famine brought about by "climate change."

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: abortion; bastards; bigbrother; climatechange; cultureofcorruption; forcedabortion; forcedsterilization; holdren; holdrenkillschildren; holdrenlovesnazis; nannystate; obamabringsdeath; obamacommunist; obamanazi; obamascandals; prodeath; psycho; scienceczar; socialdarwinism; starkravingsocialism; unwedmothers
The Czar's need to be removed... NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 posted on 09/30/2009 1:37:14 PM PDT by Mind Freed
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To: Mind Freed

That’s nothing, Obama let babies born alive die of neglect in hospital closets gasping for air for hours.


2 posted on 09/30/2009 1:38:57 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (There is no truth in the Pravda Media.)
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To: Mind Freed

He is correct that we need to discourage unwed motherhood, but his approach leaves a lot to be desired, especially the abortion angle.

He should read a book called “Nudge” by Cass Sunstein.

/sarc


3 posted on 09/30/2009 1:39:30 PM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: Mind Freed

Not susrprising and in fact, I truly believe a fair number of Americans would agree with this.

I don’t think people realize how far this country has gone to destroy the family unit.


4 posted on 09/30/2009 1:39:35 PM PDT by nikos1121 (Praying for -16 today.)
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To: Mind Freed

Climate change has nothing to do with the weather. It is smoke and mirrors to impose State controls on your very existence.


5 posted on 09/30/2009 1:41:04 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (There is no truth in the Pravda Media.)
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To: Mind Freed
Obama science czar John Holdren stated in a college textbook that "illegitimate children" born to unwed mothers could be taken by the government and put up for adoption...

If I'm not mistaken, the state already has the authority to seize children and dispose of them as it sees fit -- albeit with the formality of something that suggest due process.

6 posted on 09/30/2009 1:41:27 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand ("Isn't the Golden Mean the secret to something," I parried? "Yes," Blue replied. "Mediocrity.")
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To: Mind Freed; bamahead
Holdren, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, argued that "illegitimate childbearing could be strongly discouraged" as a socioeconomic measure imposed to control population growth.

That's one step away from requiring that U.S. citizens beg their Government for permission to have children.

..may be necessary and morally acceptable under extreme conditions, such as widespread famine brought about by "climate change."

Is there anything that can not be rationalized away by the leftists, who clearly display their arrogant and elitist beliefs that they know better than everyone else?

For all the talk of learning from past human mistakes of the twentieth century, it appears that the only folks who have not learned--whether through inability due to sub-standard intelligence or through willful refusal--from the moral failures of the twentieth century are the so-called "progressives" who, rather than trying to enable the progress of human freedom and liberty, choose to obstruct and impede it.

7 posted on 09/30/2009 1:44:39 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Kick corrupt Democrats *AND* Republicans out of office in 2010!)
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To: Mind Freed
Fits right in with Obamah's Safe School Czar, Kevin Jennings.

...don't know of him? You'd better.

8 posted on 09/30/2009 1:45:08 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Mind Freed

This is a bit late. Zombietime had the text online a few months ago...

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

This was a Berkeley textbook from the late 70’s...

Scary stuff. Apparently, there was a “crisis” back then that “justified” thinking like a totalitarian...

Let’s not forget that shortly after Obama put him in (as far as I know, he was confirmed...is not a czar) he advocated the idea of shooting pollution into space to counter global warming.


9 posted on 09/30/2009 1:45:23 PM PDT by Winstons Julia (Europe stole my vegetables!)
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To: Mind Freed

Delete the abortion part and Id bet a fair amount of Freepers would agree.


10 posted on 09/30/2009 1:46:09 PM PDT by DogBarkTree (Support Sarah. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/sarahpalin?ref=nf)
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To: Disambiguator

I agree that there is a huge problem with the numbers of unwed mothers in the country. However, just as I believe that there is an absolute problem with the health care industry... The government is not at all the answer to anything.


11 posted on 09/30/2009 1:46:13 PM PDT by Mind Freed (Maybe Obama was the Wright choice... Let's wait till everything Ayers out.)
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To: Mind Freed

And how about the woman’s right to choose ruse?

Notice how things change in order for liberals to meet their wacko goals. The entire liberal dogma is nothing but lies.


12 posted on 09/30/2009 1:46:48 PM PDT by Tarpon (Oba-Mao is a reader, not a leader ...)
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To: Disambiguator; Mind Freed
He is correct that we need to discourage unwed motherhood

Then require people to take personal responsibility for their actions.

13 posted on 09/30/2009 1:47:48 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Kick corrupt Democrats *AND* Republicans out of office in 2010!)
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To: Mind Freed
A more effective thing to do would be to not allow women to collect money from men they make babies with that they are not married to.

You'd be amazed at how quickly the illegitimacy rate would decline.

14 posted on 09/30/2009 1:48:30 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Ask not what the Kennedys can do for you, but what you can do for the Kennedys.)
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To: Winstons Julia

More Population Bomb junk.


15 posted on 09/30/2009 1:49:38 PM PDT by FourPeas (Why does Professor Presbury's wolfhound, Roy, endeavour to bite him?)
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To: Tarpon

Liberals keep proving why they are the biggest hypocrites alive.


16 posted on 09/30/2009 1:49:55 PM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts (“Cap and Trade bill tells us how to live.. Health Care bill tells us how to die.” Bauer and Rose)
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To: rabscuttle385
Then require people to take personal responsibility for their actions.

Works for me, but goes against the whole left-liberal victimhood thing, which = wailing and gnashing of teeth.

17 posted on 09/30/2009 1:51:13 PM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: rabscuttle385
Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Responsibility? What's that? I hope you mean have the government make all of our choices for us. /sarc

I mean really, you expect me to know how high or low to put my thermostat, who to get health care from, what kind of car to buy, or... God forbid... How to spend my own money?

18 posted on 09/30/2009 1:51:39 PM PDT by Mind Freed (Maybe Obama was the Wright choice... Let's wait till everything Ayers out.)
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To: Disambiguator

Hmmmn - given that the most dangerous lace in the world is between a female and her child, perhaps we should have Holdren do the taking of those children.

It hardly seems fair for Holdren to place others in such a risky place merely to further his agenda. As an intellectual and an academic, surely he would understand.

;-)


19 posted on 09/30/2009 1:54:52 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: rabscuttle385

We need to encourage marriage between men and women. And that’s not just because the company I work for makes Invitation Software.


20 posted on 09/30/2009 2:01:32 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Mind Freed

Maybe that’s how Hussein, et al., will create his own army. Collect these babies and raise them in camps.


21 posted on 09/30/2009 2:11:30 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam (POWER TO THE PEOPLE)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"A more effective thing to do would be to not allow women to collect money from men they make babies with that they are not married to. "

Wouldn't that be a further denial of a child's natural right to receive support and provision from his father? And a further encouragement for males to disconnect from adult obligations? Your solution seems one more step in the wrong direction. The desirable thing would be to require both women and men to be more responsible, not less.

22 posted on 09/30/2009 2:13:31 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Wouldn't that be a further denial of a child's natural right to receive support and provision from his father?

No.

It would make legitimate, married fathers more important.

Hey, if you want more illegitimacy, subsidize it. Tell women if they can get themselves knocked up by a guy, they can collect a paycheck from him every month. If she gets knocked up by three or four guys she can retire.

Women who don't bother to get married before getting pregnant ought not to be able to avail themselves of the advantages of marriage.

When it comes to sex, women are in charge. They decide if they want to have sex with a man. What the man wants is irrelevant.

23 posted on 09/30/2009 2:23:32 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Ask not what the Kennedys can do for you, but what you can do for the Kennedys.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"Wouldn't that be a further denial of a child's natural right to receive support and provision from his father?"--
"No.
It would make legitimate, married fathers more important."

While agreeing with you entirely that legitimaacy must be re-emphasized, I still say you have failed to show how your solution (abolishing financial liability for unwed fathers) honors the natural right of every child to his father's support and provision.

If only married fathers have this responsibility, while unmarried fathers can (in your scheme) get off scot-free, you further decrease the likelihood that men will seek marriage.

Women (plural) in general need to re-assert the sexual rule: no matrimony, no sex. OK. But in each and every case where a man and a woman have produced a child by their sexual union, both the man and the woman must be called to responsibility. Otherwise you have only the woman being treated as a responsible adult, and the man being treated as somthing less than an adult: either a mental defective, a rutting animal, or a perpetual lad.

24 posted on 09/30/2009 2:51:03 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; All
"...Hey, if you want more illegitimacy, subsidize it. Tell women if they can get themselves knocked up by a guy, they can collect a paycheck from him every month. If she gets knocked up by three or four guys she can retire..."

I know a cute little young lady (now 30-something) who has 3 sons from 3 different fathers. She gets $1,500 a month from each of them. She doesn't work, she gets all the WIC support she wants, her house is a disaster, and her kids are snotty little undisclipled feral animals who will likely die in prison.

Plus, she drinks like a fish, she's slept with every guy under 45 in town (except me, yikes!!!), she literally exudes unhappiness, and ironically, she complains that she can't find a "nice guy" anywhere.

Not surprisingly she thought Bill Clinton was the greatest man on earth until Obama came along.

Oh yeah, she's also from California.

25 posted on 09/30/2009 2:56:29 PM PDT by conservativeharleyguy (Democrats: Over 60 million fooled daily!)
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To: conservativeharleyguy; E. Pluribus Unum; Mrs. Don-o
Plus, she drinks like a fish, she's slept with every guy under 45 in town (except me, yikes!!!), she literally exudes unhappiness, and ironically, she complains that she can't find a "nice guy" anywhere.

Well, duh.

Any "nice guy" with an IQ above twelve and the ability to exercise self-control won't touch her.

26 posted on 09/30/2009 3:25:12 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Kick corrupt Democrats *AND* Republicans out of office in 2010!)
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To: Mind Freed

Some here would actually support this.


27 posted on 09/30/2009 3:25:43 PM PDT by rintense (Senior Marketing / IT / UX architect unemployed and looking for work. Freepmail me if you have leads)
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To: Mind Freed
The Obama youth.

Remember where Napoleon got his security force in Animal Farm?

Cheers!

28 posted on 09/30/2009 3:51:10 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
...I still say you have failed to show how your solution (abolishing financial liability for unwed fathers) honors the natural right of every child to his father's support and provision.

You seem to that illegitimacy is a good thing and want more of it by rewarding women for making illegitimate babies. Why would they even bother to get married? Collecting half a dozen support checks and sleeping with whoever they feel like is a much better deal than marriage.

I think illegitimacy is a bad thing, and that if you make it unpleasant and financially devastating enough there won't be any illegitimate children born to be deprived of their illegitimate father's "support and provision."

Problem solved.

29 posted on 09/30/2009 7:48:36 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Ask not what the Kennedys can do for you, but what you can do for the Kennedys.)
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To: rabscuttle385
Hmmm...... what is this mysterious “ability to exercise self control” of which you speak????

Is it a quality the men of Earth possess in abundance?

Hence her 3 bastard kids.... (Oooops - that was very judgmental of me. I'm so sorry. I meant to say "Her 3 poor, precious, disadvantaged single-parent babies, thrice abandoned and victimized by paternal neglect, but fortuitously provided for by the loving embrace of 'the village").

30 posted on 10/01/2009 4:59:51 AM PDT by conservativeharleyguy (Democrats: Over 60 million fooled daily!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"You seem to [think] that illegitimacy is a good thing and want more of it by rewarding women for making illegitimate babies."

It is an un-called-for inference on your part to say that I think illegitimacy is a good thing, since I have already made it clear that I oppose illegitimacy, and in fact I would argue strongly that only matrimony ---ONLY matrimony ---justifies sexual intercourse, for anybody. (Can I assume you'd agree?)

But the probem is more than illegitimacy. For decades, the USA has had, for its native-born (non-immigrant) population, a negative fertility rate, less than replacement. Of those American infants who, despite contraception, sterilization, and abortion, manage to be born alive, 40% are born out of wedlock.

If you simply make live childbearing a total loss for unmarried women, you will guarantee a huge upsurge in abortion. Not only is this morally repugnant in itself, it would also have the effect of causing a dramatic population collapse in the USA, bankrupting our social institutions (beginning with Social Security and Medicare, which are already teetering on the edge -- but eventually all of our institutions), and gaining a great victory for the establishment of the Islamic Caliphate of America.

Dare I ask why you are in favor of mass abortion, depopulation, and the triumph of th Caliphate?

No, I won't assume that those are your intentions: but I must repeat that those would be your consequences.

The underlying problem is the failure of family-formtion and dying-off of durable human bonds. The solution can only be the re-building of bonds: between men and women (marriage), between women and children (through honoring and rewarding a fully responsible mother/child relationship), and between men and their dependent children, (through a re-assertion of the honors and obligations of husbandry/fatherhood.)

It's a tall order.

It can't be accomplished by severing the ties between children and their natural parents, either through forced adoption (as Holdren wants), or by authorizing men to abandon their offspring without even a financial liability (as you have recommended.)

31 posted on 10/01/2009 7:09:04 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
If you simply make live childbearing a total loss for unmarried women, you will guarantee a huge upsurge in abortion.

No, you won't.

You will guarantee a huge downturn in extra-marital sex.

Extra-marital sex is a prerequisite for illegitimate births.

It's simple. Reward a behavior, and you get more of it. Punish a behavior, and you get less of it.

But keep excusing irresponsible behavior, then complain about the consequences of that irresponsible behavior. It seems to come naturally to you.

32 posted on 10/01/2009 7:16:05 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Ask not what the Kennedys can do for you, but what you can do for the Kennedys.)
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To: Mind Freed

http://www.amazon.com/Ecoscience-Population-Environment-Paul-Ehrlich/dp/0716700298


33 posted on 10/01/2009 7:20:15 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Just say no to Soylent Green health care)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Wouldn't that be a further denial of a child's natural right to receive support and provision from his father? And a further encouragement for males to disconnect from adult obligations? Your solution seems one more step in the wrong direction. The desirable thing would be to require both women and men to be more responsible, not less.

Examine your premises more closely. If a woman does not have the ability to use government force to get support from the man, then her only option is to encourage the father to emotionally bond with the child, and her, well enough that he is willing to VOLUNTARILY support the kid.

It would also act as an incentive for her to make better choices in who she has sex with.

It is not power which corrupts -- it is the absence of consequences which corrupts.

34 posted on 10/01/2009 7:50:16 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
If you simply make live childbearing a total loss for unmarried women, you will guarantee a huge upsurge in abortion. Not only is this morally repugnant in itself, it would also have the effect of causing a dramatic population collapse in the USA, bankrupting our social institutions (beginning with Social Security and Medicare, which are already teetering on the edge -- but eventually all of our institutions), and gaining a great victory for the establishment of the Islamic Caliphate of America.

You operate on the assumption that the children of unmarried mothers are a net asset to the United States, and that we would be worse off without them. While there are many wonderful, productive offspring of unmarried women, they are overshadowed by the criminal element that comes disproportionately from unmarried households. Eliminating them would eliminate a huge drain on government money.

35 posted on 10/01/2009 7:58:27 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
"But keep excusing irresponsible behavior, then complain about the consequences of that irresponsible behavior. It seems to come naturally to you."

Hey, Unum? what's with the personal insults? That's twice now.

Baleful social and financial consequences for illegitimate live childbearing used to result in both a lot of early marriage and a lot of early childbearing followed by adoptions --- for instance, in the 1950's thru mid-60's. Now that abortion is (damnably) legal, I think it's reasonable to infer that, given a renewal of financial penalty, some unmarried women will refrain from sex, but many more will not: they'll simply refrain from live childbearing.

If you can resist the ad hominem jabs --- a practice which I pointedly avoided doing to you --- I am willing to continue this discussion.

If not, not.

Have a nice day.

36 posted on 10/01/2009 9:22:45 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: PapaBear3625
You have a point there. However, allow me to refer you to my most recent message to E Pluribus (#36.)

In has heretofore always been in women's best interest to refrain from sex until real bonding commitment are reasonably to be expected, leading to the more circumspect behavior you and I both approve; but the availability of abortion has changed that whole dynamic.

Ultimately, nonmarital sex is still self-defeating from a woman's perspective (men's, too, but it's more obviously and dramatically so for women) but the path toward correcting this situation must aim at the re-assertion and reinforcement of both men's and women's sense of responsibility, not going for some fragmentary solution which demands women's performance on their adult obligations, and leaves puerile males to do as they please --- as if we expected them to be fly-by-night inseminators.

I respect men enough to demand strict liability from them (as well as from women) for their sexual behavior.

37 posted on 10/01/2009 9:34:11 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: PapaBear3625
Let me agreee with you that marital childbearing is much more socially constructive than nonmarital childbearing, for a whole lot of reasons. The marriage-based family is the only truly suitable way to procreate and raise children.

Nevertheless, dropping the USA's already-low fertility rate by 40% would be awful and probably irreparable. Even bastardy is better than sterility.

Do we agree that marriage as the indispensible context for sex is the way to go? Then the question is, what are the intermediate steps?

I'm all ears. I don't have a whole "program for social recontruction" up my sleeve (whsh I did!) but I remain convinced that suspending any enforcement of unmarried fathers' liability for their own children is not a constuctive step from a practical point of view.I also dooubt that anyone has authorized to relinquish their child's natural right to have the support of his or her father.

38 posted on 10/01/2009 9:42:52 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Nevertheless, dropping the USA's already-low fertility rate by 40% would be awful and probably irreparable. Even bastardy is better than sterility.

I disagree. The Middle Class is still predominantly having children within marriage. They might divorce, but it's generally true that children are born within marriage. The problem is that their fertility is low.

The Underclass are another story, with most children being conceived out of marriage. Their fertility is high.

The high fertility of the underclass results in a high tax burden on the middle class. This necessitates two-income households in order the maintain the standard of living that they are used to from their parents.

A solution would reduce the tax burden on the middle class, by greatly reducing the burden imposed by the underclass. An elimination of rewards for pathological behavior would tend to force underclass women to behave more responsibly, unlike today where the incentives are for them to have irresponsible sex with a large number of men.

39 posted on 10/01/2009 3:07:06 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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